Dean vs Kerry on taxes.... Kerry is for "reversing tax cuts" as well...

[cthrumatrix]

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry defended his position in favor of reversing President Bush's tax cuts for wealthy Americans, saying they have not helped average workers. But he would leave in place other cuts that benefited the middle class.

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean favors repealing all of Bush's tax cuts and argued that "there was no middle class tax cut." He said that although 60 percent of Americans got about $300 in federal tax breaks, other costs went up, such as property taxes and college tuition.


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/7775009.htm

I suspect that becuase "Dean is vocal" about the "tax reversal" he's the only one....it's not true....Kerry is the same.

Dean is "upfront and has shared" you can't have it all. I like the refreshing honesty in candidate who was a small businessman and did deliver health care to a state.

[AP]

1. So now Dean's supposed to be good on taxes because his plan is similar

to Kerry's?

Right.

Dean doesn't care about the allocation of the tax burden. He thinks middle class people and people who have to work for living need to pull more weight and doesn't want to talk about whether the relative burdens are fair.

Kerry, Clark, Edwards, Kucinich, Lieberman and Sharpton ALL know the truth about taxes, and are willing to talk about it.

[cthrumatrix]

2. you have no idea about your burden tax "rhetoric"...becuase you have

no idea what the total impact of taxes, and health care and other expenses that the Dean candidate delivers.

So listen to Dean in total then compare to Kerry ...and give me numbers on each issue.. Thank you.

[AP]

3. Bet you can't explain what you think it is.

Listen, all those arguments Dean makes about there not being enough tax revenue are great. But there isn't one tax that everyone pays that generates tax revenue. All governments tax money transferring through dozens and dozens of channels. From employee to employer, from company to dividend recipient, from seller of asset to buyer of asset, from testator to inheritor, etc.

Some of those channels tax people at different rates depending on the sum transferred or on the adjusted gross income of the recpient, or the size of the estate, etc. etc.

Dean talks about the total tax revenue generated. But he never wants to talk about HOW you generate revenue, that generating revenue from different channels, and, within those channels, from people differently depending on the sum, income etc.

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GENERATING ENOUGH TAX REVENUE DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO MAKE THE MIDDLE CLASS BEAR THE BURDEN DISPROPORTINATELY TO ANYONE ELSE.

Dean has no interest in the implications of taxing earned income more than, say, taxing cap gains for people with gross incomes over 300K or 1 million.

So, yes, not enough tax revenues is bad. But if you want a second Great Depression, do what Dean wants to do: allocate the burden of closing that gap onto the backs of the middle class. Wach their knees buckle. Watch the economy crumble. Watch the rich get EVEN RICHER when Jeb Bush rather than FDR reincrarnated wins the next election.

[cthrumatrix]

4. Dean said he would "redo the tax code".... and we can go back and forth

and what it comes down to is "TRUST"...that he is for the working class. Look at what he has done in VT.

He has stated the budget is a big issue first for many reasons...and is very focused on "righting the ship".

There is no doubt that Dean is for working people. I refuse to listen to an washington insider ...I don't trust Kerry.

And arguing what he "might do" is speculative at best.

[AP]

7. I can't trust a person as cagey as Dean about taxes. He told the Cato Inst

that he doesn't agree with democrats on tax policy.

If that doesn't make one suspicious than, to quote Joe Jackson, "Jack, you're dead."

When you got no more assurance
Than a great big hunk o' lead
If you don't respond to romance
Jack, you're dead

When a chick is smilin' at you
Even though there's nothin' said
You stand there like a statue
Jack, you're dead

You been always kickin'
But you stubbed your toes
When you ups and kicks the bucket
Just like ole man Mose'

When you get no kicks from lovin'
And you blow your top instead
It's a fact that you ain't livin'
Jack, you're dead

(instrumental break)

When you just ain't got nobody
Since you gone and lost your head
Rigor mortis has set in, daddy
Jack, you're dead

What's the use of havin' muscles
If your life hangs by a thread
If you ain't got no red corpuscles
Jack, you're dead

You been always kickin'
But you stubbed your toes
When you ups and kicks the bucket
Just like ole man Mose'

When you get no kicks from lovin'
And the news begins to spread
All the cats will holler "murder"
Jack, you're dead

All the breath has leaked out of you
If your friends gather round the bed
And look at you and say
"Mm mm, don't he look natural?"
When that happens to you, daddy
Jack, you're dead

[cthrumatrix]

9. save it .......vote with "the washigton insider"....roll your dice

[AP]

14. Needless to say, there are big holes in that argument.

[bearfartinthewoods]

5. my property taxes didn't go up

no kids so no tuition.

we're getting the marrige cut and the fisrt 7000 at ten percent.

we are getting a good tax cut, dr.....

[cthrumatrix]

6. each person's case is unique .... and our country is going bankrupt under

bush.... let's be realistic...as Dean say's ..we can't have everything.

[AP]

11. We'll go broke becuase revenue is too low,not because we're not loading up

the middle class with taxes on earned income.

And, as I keep saying, load up the middle class with taxes on earned income, the whole system will come crumbling down with or without universal health care. We'll get LESS revenue, because people who work for a living will have fewer chances to accumulate wealth and political power. They'll become wage slaves for lower and lower wages. That's what's already happening.

Meet Herbert Hoover. We tried that once.

Dean is a good friend of Wall St. He's not a good friend to middle class people who get all the money they make from earned income.

[cthrumatrix]

12. Dean has a record ...your guy doesn't....save your "pontification"

[AP]

15. Yes, Dean has a record of making state taxes less progressive.

Property taxes in VT are shockingly regressive (I believe it's something like 7 times larger for the bottom quintile than the top 1%, and it steadily reduces as you get wealthier.

And he has a record of doing favors for big businesses.

I can't wait for his records to finally come out.

[cthrumatrix]

17. dean get's his $$$ from the PEOPLE....unlike Kerry...go look at his top

donors....

[AP]

18. And it looks like they're being fooled into supporting someone who's more

interested in helping big business than Kerry is.

If it weren't for Big Media promoting Dean, he'd have languished all summer, and he'd have moved UP to like 7%. Instead, he was in the 40s and going down because people are realizing that he was oversold by the media.

[cthrumatrix]

19. lol....your guy is "sponsored by big bus" who loves workers...not

[AP]

21. Who do you think "my guy" is?

Dean governed on BEHALF of big business in VT.

[cthrumatrix]

23. any candidate cannot match the "people support $$" of Dean

i really don't care who your candidate is...Dean's contributions make him beholden to "him"...not washington or lobbyist

[AP]

25. Maybe if they could see the hidden records, then they'll no longer be able

to deny what's already apparent: Dean is VERY corproate friendly.

The donations don't prove anything than people were willing to donate a lot of money before they compared dean to other candidates, and without knowing what was hidden in his files, or without thinking hard about how he governed VT.

[AP]

8. If you have good democrats in local gov't it won't. If they have a

president who uses the pulpit to argue for progressive taxes everywhere, they'll have an easier time making that argument. Dean isn't that friend.

[cthrumatrix]

10. Dean is a friend to women, small business, health care, medicare, educat.

and more...

The more people know about Dean...the more they like.

[AP]

13. Not surpising one has to ignore his tax plan to make that argument.

[cthrumatrix]

16. lol....I have made my case...and you can only speculate...so talk to

somebody who wants to believe in "make believe".

Dean has experience...he ran a business as Doctor for 11 yrs. He knows issues...he lives issues with his wife as a small business. He know what it takes to help the economy, increase tax revs and reduce taxes....

[AP]

20. So this is about me not having a tight grip on reality? It isn't about

Dean's very Cato-friendly attitude towards taxes?

[IndianaGreen]

22. Kerry is for increasing taxes!

Amazing, isn't it? When Dean spoke up about returning this country to the Clinton budgetary discipline, which gave us 6 years of prosperity, Kerry & Co accused Dean of trying to raise taxes. This nice play on words will come back to haunt Kerry were he to become the nominee.

[cthrumatrix]

24. that is my point....he is for "reversing as well"..but only Dean get;'s

the press.

[AP]

26. Raising all of the 100s of taxes? Or some of them?

[cthrumatrix]

27. he only said he would "redo the tax code"...how can we say what anybody's

real tax cut or raise is? You can't...nobody can.

[AP]

28. One in the hand, or Dean in the Bush. I'll take the tax polices I know,

and which I can tell are good. I'm not going to take a chance on a guy who made his own state taxes more regressive and told the Cato Inst that he's not a Democrat on taxes, and who has to hide his attitudes on taxes, and who, from what little he does show, obviouls doesn't care much about how the tax burden is allocate.

I have more respect for myself than to trust my "feelings" about candidates. I try to listen to what they say and do.