I think the top Democrats are jumping the gun on Rove

[4_Legs_Good]

I don't think any of them should be calling for Rove to be fired at this point. I think it's a silly stance that may well end up hurting our ability to take full political advantage of the situation.

Top Democrats (Dean, Kennedy, Clinton, Kerry) should be saying:

The matter is under investigation and it's obvious that a heinous crime has been committed, one that Former President George H. W. Bush rightfully called "treason", one that put our country at risk and our servicemen and women in danger; one that comprimised national security permanently and irrevocably. If the Bush Administration has any knowledge of who committed this crime it must come forward immediately. The Administration has claimed that they didn't know who the leak was and that Karl Rove being the perpetrator was "rediculous". Soon enough we'll know for certain who this leaker was and what his or her proximity is to the President.

We all know it's Rove, what we need to do is turn up the heat so that when it's revealed 100%, the Administration's LIES and treachery will be at the forefront of everyone's minds.

Let the Administration hang itself. And let the journalists (what few there are left in this country) dig, dig, dig and see what else they can turn up before the Grand Jury does.

Rove in a prision cell and George Jr. on the street is much more pleasing that Rove allowed to resign (to spend more time with his family) and George Jr. sitting pretty.

david

[Dr Fate]

1. I disagree. The court of public opinion is the only one we have left.

If anything, Top DEMS need to say even more- bring in DSM and Gannon as well. When it rains, it pours.

Rove will never go to jail, but we can educate the populace & use this against the GOP in '06 & '08.

[4_Legs_Good]

3. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should shut up,

If anything they should be more vocal!

I just don't think that they should pin everything on it being Rove and Rove being fired to solve the problem. The fact of the matter is that this Plame story links almost every failure of the administration. What if the Administration (and we all know how slimy and "good" these guys are at dirty tricks) manages to pin it on Scooter Libby or some other peeon? Every Democrat who called for Rove to be fired is going to be made to look idiotic, and the public will stop asking the questions - just like it did with the 60Minutes deal and so many other deals that George Jr. has wriggled out of.

The issue has to be that someone in the Administration (very high up!) committed a crime that directly comrpimises national security in order to justify the failed war in Iraq. And that after the President learned who it was, he did everything he could to hide the truth from the American people.

Nixon went down this way. This will not only destroy the Administration "technically", but also in the realm of public opinion. If Bush says "I had no idea it was Rove, and I still don't know" and then Rove says "this issue is distracting from the President's crusade to stop terrorism and bring prosperity to the American people, so I'm going to resign," then we just let the whole administration off the hook. Then if Rove ever does go to jail it'll be just as "the former advisor to the President".

Again, heep the heat up, but don't let him get away with an easy resignation.

david

[IdaBriggs]

2. Darn Tootin! He only committed TREASON two years ago --

What's the rush? Let's wait a few more years before we call for him to be hung from the nearest yardarm!

:sarcasm:

[bluedog]

4. I blame Miller and Cooper for the mess this country is in!

..had she and cooper been totally 100% America and cared for their country more than their own GOP party..this country would not be in the situation it is today.....bush would have not bee elected if they did their duty and told the god damn truth about these lies!

[4_Legs_Good]

6. Amen!

People forget that Miller pretty much gave the go-ahead for the war to the public. Her rediculous "reporting" in the lead up justified the war to most people. She has not been held accountable even by the New York Times.

david

[IdaBriggs]

9. Agreed! nt

[4_Legs_Good]

5. Firing him will absolve Bush

This is WAY bigger than Rove. And Rove can do as much damage on the phone as a "friend" as he can as a paid "public servant".

This is two years of lies and deceit slowly coming to a head. If Rove had resigned on Day 2, none of this would matter now. It's a big story BECAUSE of the coverup. Because Rove has been so integral to the Administrations planning. Because of the links to the invasion of Iraq and the death of 100,000 Iraqis and 1,800 Servicemen and Servicewomen.

I think letting Rove resign or firing him before 100% legal proof has been established, is to allow the issue to dissipate without the American public ever understanding the full ramifications of what happened and why.

My thoughts...

david

[OzarkDem]

26. I see your point

And if our Dem leaders were better coordinated and adept at these things, they could use Rove to set a trap for Bush, Cheney, et.al.

Problem is, they aren't that good.

[JNelson6563]

16. No kidding.

We need to hold back on this for a while....

Oy! :eyes:

[4_Legs_Good]

17. I'm not saying "hold back", I'm saying don't focus on Rove

and Rove leaving "office". Focus on the crime, make the crime so horrible (which it is) and so indicitive of the lies the rest of the Administration has perpetrated that once Rove is indicted everyone else goes down too.

I think you're focusing on the small fish here.

david

[dajoki]

20. rove is no small fish

i say kickem while they're down and don't let up. rove could cave and take a few with him. we could take them apart piece by piece.:woohoo:

[laureloak]

7. I say STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT. Don't delay.

[4_Legs_Good]

8. But is Rove's head on a platter really what we're after here?

I say it goes way deeper than Rove, and by striking too early we cut the rest of the line loose. Don't give George Jr. a chance to get away. This thing can take down almost everyone in the Administration.

Welcome to DU!!! :hi:

david

P.S. (on edit) Don't get me wrong, I want Rove to go down - I just want him to take a few dozen other people with him... :)

[NoSheep]

10. They should all go. Outrage is called for. Righteous outrage!

[4_Legs_Good]

11. Exactly!

I knew this would be the big one. I hate that these serious scandals take place before re-election, but always come to a head afterwards.

:) Let's hope everyone goes down.

david

[NoSheep]

13. We can only hope the lies..all the lies are exposed.

:bounce:

[wallwriter]

24. Important point: Rove is only a subject, not a target.

Just who is that target? Could be Scooter Libby. Could it be Cheney? Was he sloppy enough to spill some of this on himself? He is certainly wily enough to let Rove twist in the wind for a while and take the heat. *Somebody* big is still in very hot water. Just because their name isn't yet bouncing around as much as Rove's doesn't mean that they aren't in the deepest of doo-doo.

Nothing says "you're fucked" quite like an indictment, and those haven't come down yet. But they will.

[ProgressiveFool]

12. that was Biden's line pretty much

In an interview on Inside Politics. I tend to agree - this story will be around for a while... plenty of time to jump on in.

[laureloak]

14. I say, don't wait until it's old news. Jump on it now.

If you let it sit around too long it will be spun into something unrecognizable. Better to catch them off-guard and run with it.

[Cocoa]

15. Rove's resigning would be HUGE

the fact that Bush allowed the leaker to remain in such a position of power for two years would cripple him, not to mention Rove's absence.

[4_Legs_Good]

18. I think we should be hyping up George Jr.'s role

as well as that of other key Administration members rather than giving George Jr. the out of letting Rove go.

Plus no part of me believes that Rove wouldn't continue working for the Administration in an unofficial capacity if he were at home or in jail.

Focus on the bigger picture and we can take a lot more than Rove down.

david

[Arkana]

19. With all due respect, I strongly disagree.

What the Democrats are doing right now is EXACTLY what they need to be doing--going for the jugular.

[4_Legs_Good]

22. I just don't see it as going for the jugular, I guess

or maybe I'm wrong. I think, though, a more clever hunt will yield much, much larger results. If you can taint the whole neo-con culture with this, the American people will not re-elect them in 2006 and 2008.

Played like this now, Rove goes back to Texas. Played well, we get the House in 2006 and the White House in 2008.

david

[Imagevision]

21. I totally agree, if we can perhaps bring Cheney into this, Novak said;

"He received the Plane information outing her from TWO senior White House officials -- i'M AMAAZED the msm is covering this story at all.

With each passing day it seems to be getting more attention, thats a switch, and Rove yet! amazing.

[formernaderite]

23. Actually I'm quite apprehensive about this whole thing...

we're talking Rove here. It's all too easy...I'd hate to think he were leading the dems to their slaughter. There's something strange going on.

[4_Legs_Good]

25. Taht makes me very nervous too...

we've been down this road before. Another reason to focus on the crime rather than an individual until the indictments come down.

david

[Miss Chybil]

27. They've finally found their cajones and you want them to hold back?

Ah, hell no. Sharks, attack!

[4_Legs_Good]

30. Not hold back, but redirect it so the entire Admin. faces the consequences

So we get to put Rove's head on the wall, big deal! And him losing his job isn't going to stop his influence on the Administration or his wonton destruction of our country.

Take the time and put the emphasis on everyone involved in the coverup. Everyone who ever said "it's not Rove", and when it's found out that it IS Rove, EVERYONE comes tumbling down. Every Republican will have to run against their opponent and against the Administration's humiliation in 2006 and 2008. Every Republican will have to run against 2,000 dead American patriots. Every Republican will have to run against $500,000,000,000.00 wasted on Rove and George Jr.'s dishonest adventure in the Middle East.

Played in the obvious way, we get Rove.

Played in a clever way, we get our country back.

david

[Miss Chybil]

37. Ok, your way sounds better, but I think we can do both.

It's like pulling that one little thread on a sweater and the whole thing falls apart.

[Imagevision]

40. good points -- I totally agree!

[lojasmo]

28. Rove is done.

Calling for his firing/resignation was smart.

[4_Legs_Good]

31. I'm not sure how it's smart. It seems like the obvious thing to do,

and obvious courses of action rarely pay the big dividends. Plus it looks like the Democrats are desperate for something to pounce on. Right now the press is actually doing some of it's job. Let them make Rove look like a traitor. The Democrats IMO should spend their time stressing the gravity of the crime and setting the Administration up (Cheney, Libby, Card, Bush, McClelen) to have to take responsibility for their actions in the cover-up.

Again, don't get me wrong, I can't wait for Rove to go down in flames (FINALLY), but I think we have bigger fish to fry.

david

[ArnoldLayne]

29. I want to see him frog-marched out of the White House and sent

to jail as soon as possible so he can share a cell with Big Luther and ButtBustin Bubba the Human Roto Rotor. :grr:

[4_Legs_Good]

33. You, me and Joe Wilson

But he's not gonna go to jail any sooner because he's fired or allowed to resign.

If he goes to jail after George Jr., Cheney, et.al. tried to cover his tracks, he's not gonna be the only one getting the treatment by Luther and Bubba...

david

[LittleClarkie]

32. Damned if they do, damned if they don't

if they weren't, many of us would be screaming about how they have no spine yadda, yadda.

[4_Legs_Good]

34. I guess so, but, again, I'm not saying don't address the issue

I'm just saying spend time/effort trying to redirect it to the White House.

Rove is going to go down with or without Democrats calling for his ouster. If they spend their time asking questions like "We have to wonder what other serious breaches of security have happened under Rove's guidance." and "First it was Weapons of mass destruction, now it's treason by his closest advisor. I think it makes the American people wonder what else he's been dishonest about."

Go hard core, I say, just don't focus it all on Rove. If the press keeps doing their job, like they're doing now for once, Democrats can concentrate on making sure everyone who was involved pays the price.

This is all so Watergatey, I just don't want to lose our chance to sink the whole ship and get America back afloat!

david

[Disturbed]

35. DSM should be tied into the Plame case.

This case is about WMDs and lies about them.

[Imagevision]

41. DSM? "fixing policies to go to war" - Wilson said after returning from

Niger that Bushco was manipulating intel/info to support the invasion.
If all what's on record is simply replayed in normal speed, the whole administartion is crooked as hell -- as Kerry said.

[CTLawGuy]

36. I disagree

go after Rove,

If Rove is forced to resign, then Bush looks like an idiot for being associated with him and Bush is weakened politically.

I don't think you are going to show that Bush himself had anything to do with Plame.

We shouldn't give them time to spin this into a non-story.

We made that mistake with the Iraq War and the DSM.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. I love that sign ! did you see his new beard ??

[CTLawGuy]

44. whose new beard?

Joe's?

[Can o Beans]

38. WHAT??

The matter is under investigation and it's obvious that a heinous crime has been committed, one that Former President George H. W. Bush rightfully called "treason",

GHWB called Rove's action treasonous? WHERE? Please do you have a link to that?

[4_Legs_Good]

43. This is a quote from Dean's letter today...

Note George Sr. didn't name Rove, he said in 1999 that outing undercover agents was treason.

"Here's what former president George H.W. Bush said about that kind of crime: "Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors." That's from a speech on April 26, 1999."

Here's a link to Dean's entire letter today (which I have to say is fantastic!!!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1925867&mesg_id=1925867

david

[Imagevision]

42. This post should be recommended to keep valid points out there

[LynneSin]

45. Hell, if Rove was a democrat, the repukes would want the death penalty

I mean that is the punishment for treason