If Rove is impeached, he cannot be pardoned - it seems.

[socal_dan]

And it looks to me like he can be impeached, and then he can't be pardoned.

This might be better than throwing the 10 year sentence against him, but just sentence him to impeachment.

The US Constitution, on impeachment:


Artile 2 Section 4:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article 2 Section 2 Clause 1:


Section. 2.

Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

[Son of California]

1. YES

they say we don't have the votes to get an impeachment.
maybe this issue will help us win the seats to do that.

[Wabbajack]

10. If we win every single gop senate seat next year

that's still not 67.

[PurityOfEssence]

26. The House is the issue

Why people don't get this is quite puzzling. The Constitution built us a flexible government with much of the power vested in the frantic and two-year mandated body that is a proportional representation of the people. To keep this body in check, a supposedly sanguine Senate looked over its shoulder and had to answer to ALL of the people in its state. (Sure, before 1914 state legislatures voted in Senators, but that in itself was a check against the capricousness of the mob, especially with a 6 year term.)

We are a country with many strengths and weaknesses, but one of the weaknesses is the worshipping of the individual. All the undue focus on the President and Senate is silly and unfounded. The House is where we'll take them under.

Gingrich and his taking of the House in '94 was a greater victory for the right than Reagan's election in '80 coupled with taking the Senate. Think about it.

Flip less than 20 seats out of 435, and we control the gavel. We call people to testify. We hold the pursestrings. That is very possible if an aggresive campaign is waged.

[Wabbajack]

28. No the Senate is also the issue

And it takes 2/3 of the senate to convict and remove an impeached official.

[calimary]

21. Welcome to DU! Cheers!

Having read down the thread, I'm adjusting this.

Would that it were true. But what a hoot it'd be - kkkarl rove being IMPEACHED!

At any rate, I'm tempted to get a T-shirt made:

"Visualize IMPEACHMENT.
Pass it on..."

I'm thinking maybe gold or silver ink for the Visualize IMPEACHMENT part and then just plain black for "Pass it on..."

BTW, Welcome to DU socal dan!

A toast to you both! :toast: :toast:

[Wickerman]

2. Rove is a civil officer of the US?

I thought he was an advisor - a created position.

Hey, welcome to DU! :hi:

[acmejack]

7. You are correct!

Rove is not subject to impeachment. He may, however, be tried like the common criminal that he is.

[kestrel91316]

18. Oh, and can't Valerie Plame SUE HIM, too??

[kestrel91316]

19. Something like "reckless endangerment"??

[punpirate]

8. He's actually deputy chief of staff now...

... which is, technically, an administrative position at the President's discretion.

He was not confirmed for the job and it's not civil service, so, you're correct, he's not a civil officer of the US. He can't be impeached--it simply doesn't apply to him in his capacity.

So, if he's indicted (still in question), and tried and convicted, Bush can pardon him. And, Bush, stupid, venal shit that he is, would hire him right back again and thumb his nose at the press.

[aquart]

16. Damn, that would almost be fun to watch.

Hey, Karl, commit any treason today???

[mcscajun]

9. He might have been "just an adviser" once...

...but earlier this year he was made Deputy Chief of Staff (in charge of policy.)

And I don't want him impeached...I want him jailed!

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Deputy Chief of Staff isn't a civil officer

Civil officers have to be confirmed by the senate. Anybody who works in the President's "inner circle" doesn't have to be confirmed by the senate and isn't a civil officer.

[mcscajun]

23. Know that...was just clarifying his status.

:)

[rasputin1952]

24. His title is: Deputy Chief of Staff...therefore, since he is on the US

payroll, and w/title no less, he is an officer of the government.

I'm no legal scholar, but let's get him any way we can...:D

On Edit: People w/much more legal expertise answered this far better than I could....Glad I learned somethhing!!!!!!!:D

[Wickerman]

25. thanks all, thanks Ras!

How ya been?

:hi:

[jimshoes]

3. Oooohhh

This could get good!

[Wabbajack]

4. I think that means that potus can't undo the impeachment

not that he can't pardon an impeached person for other things.

[socal_dan]

5. I'm fairly sure Rove is a US officer, an employee of the Nation

I'm reasonably sure he gets paid out of the "White House Budget", which I recall was in the millions from reading the summary tables of the Federal Budget.

[Poppyseedman]

6. Rove can't be impeached

He is not a civil officer.

[Pepperbelly]

11. give me a break ... nt

[Poppyseedman]

12. Definition

CIVIL OFFICER - The Constitution of the United States, Art. 2, S. 4, provides, that the president, vice-president, and civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. By this term are included all officers of the United States who hold their appointments under the national government, whether their duties are executive or judicial, in the highest or the lowest departments of the government, with the exception of officers of the army and navy. A senator of the United States, it was once decided, was not a civil officer, within the meaning of this clause in the Constitution.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c236.htm

[wallwriter]

13. What about pointy sticks?

Could we jab him with pointy sticks?

[socal_dan]

14. So long as you feed him two types of fruit, I think that's ok now.

[aquart]

15. I had no idea impeachment extended below Veep.

That's how well I read the constitution.

But the grand jury couldn't do that, could they? It would have to be Congress. And Congress........

[mitchtv]

17. Funny, John Roberts on CBS tonight, expressed doubts

that any crime was committed. I think he convinced Bob Sheiffer.

[leyton]

20. What does it matter?

It doesn't matter whether Rove is fired or not. He's still going to strategize, for better or for worse. They'll just put him on the RNC payroll or something. I think the legal investigation into the matter is important, but we ought to be talking about Bush's mishandling of the war, not some second-rate scandal that nobody who hasn't already made up their mind will care about.

[Booster]

27. Good find and welcome to DU and the light.

[Totally Committed]

29. Rove was not elected...

so he cannot be IMPEACHED. At least that is what I was told.

He must be fired, or resign. And, therefore, can be pardoned.

The only reason that Nixon could have been pardoned by FOrd was that he left before he was impeached. To this day, I feel that's the ONLY reason he rode off into the sunset. "For the good of the country", my ass!

TC