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Joe Wilson: the Democrats' blowhard hero? A fount of illogic?

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:11 AM
Original message
Joe Wilson: the Democrats' blowhard hero? A fount of illogic?
This comes from a column from 2004, but I don't know if it was ever rebutted. Although Somerby has always been harsh towards Wilson, one can hardly say he's on the side of the Republicans. Is he making good points in the following excerpt? Yesterday's column suggests he'll have more on Wilson today.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh072004.shtml

<edit>

Our conclusion

Democrats should be quite upset with their blowhard hero, Joe Wilson. Those “rebuttals” he’s been sending out are largely overblown, misleading junk, like so much of his past year’s work. Sorry, but Wilson’s wife did play some role in his selection for the trip (not that there’s anything wrong with it). And Wilson did keep saying that Cheney must have been briefed, a thundering judgment he now says was wrong. The Committee did judge that most analysts felt his report strengthened the case about Iraq’s pursuit of uranium. And did he make bogus statements to Pincus? We don’t know, and probably never will. In his TV interviews, Blitzer and Zahn were too inept to ask him the relevant questions. For the record, Wilson’s explanations seem mighty shaky compared the account of this matter in the unanimous report.

What did Wilson learn from his trip to Niger? Actually, he learned fairly little, as the Committee report notes. He judged that it would be hard to complete a uranium transaction in Niger, but Bush never said that Iraq bought uranium—he only said Iraq sought it. Wilson now tells us that he never claimed to have debunked that claim! And Bush referred to British intelligence, whose contents Wilson couldn’t review. Simply put, Wilson never had any way of knowing whether Iraq sought uranium in Africa. (Don’t even ask about the Congo and Somalia.) And now, at last, after one solid year, he finally says what we said all along: He had no way to debunk this allegation. Last week, Lord Butler said Bush’s claim was “well-founded.” And Wilson has no way of knowing if that judgment is correct. He never knew if Bush’s claim was true or false, despite all his loudmouth posturing.

But along the way, Wilson’s loud, dramatic overstatements distracted Dems from stronger pursuits. Bush’s 16-word statement was always a relatively weak example of the Admin’s pre-war embellishment. Yes, Bush’s statement was poorly founded; he had to rely on British intelligence because our own intel was inconclusive. But other examples of dissembling were much more clear; Admin officials often said things in the run-up to war that were, as a matter of fact, baldly wrong. No matter! Loudmouth Wilson kept banging the drums, leading us down that Niger road. Now, he’s being called the latest liberal liar, and the charge is close enough to true so that, in part, it’s going to stick. Lord Butler said Bush’s claim was well-founded—and Wilson admits he can’t debunk it! Given those facts, many American are going to wonder why Bush was trashed for those 16 words. This was always a weak side road, with Wilson the piper who led Dems down it. He continued his bull-roar in his letters last week—and readers heaped praise on his work.

OVERSTATEMENT CENTRAL: “I never claimed to have ‘debunked’ the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa,” Wilson says. But he calls the allegation a “lie” all through his overstated book. Here’s one example of his overstatements—the first one that we turn to:

WILSON (page 337): Had I been the chief executive of this operation, as President Bush likes to say that he is, I would have been furious that a member of my staff had inserted such an obviously false claim in the most important speech I might ever make.

more...
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wasn't Wilson an independent before Bush attacked his wife.
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choie Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. He supposedly voted for Bush in 2000, but
come on, guys...the issue isn't Wilson, it's whether Rove and this administration outed a CIA operative - by name or not - as retribution for Wilson's declaration that they were, in essence, lying about the threat posed by Iraq.
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. yes all of this should now be viewed with the DSM in mind !! nt
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Would anyone remain a Republican after what they did to him
and his wife? I don't think he ever specified his party before they outed his wife.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. It amazes me that I have to disagree with Somerby again.
What the hell. Usually I love the guy.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't care.
Wilson's accuracy, motives, connections, credidentials, ethics, history and loyalties are

Beside the point



We should be examining Plame, what her job was, and the extent of damage that Rove has caused this country by revealing her identity.

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fact is, Wilson spoiled their lie about the yellow cake and made
them look like fools. Because of this rove sought revenge and in the process outed Plame. Case closed.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. Drinking The Koolaid
I would suggest the writer of this piece read what Larry Johnson, someone who actually knows what he is talking about as he's ex-CIA, has to say. As far as I'm concerned this is a more subtle variation of the twisting of the facts in favor of *ushco treason.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4089306
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. What bullshit.
Why are you even paying attention to attacks on Wilson? Wilson isn't the issue here. This is pure Repug diversion. The writer looks like a Repug "deep cover" agent. He doesn't always say nice things about Repugs, to create a facade of objectivity. But when needed he'll trash their opponents with bullshit.

Personally, I dont' give a flying fuck what "Lord" Butler said. The guy is a shill for the British establishment.

Wilson was correct. There was no credible evidence of Iraqi Uranium purchases. None. But, again, ROVE IS THE ISSUE, NOT WILSON.

Rove's credibility is in question, irrespective of what any nitwit writes about Wilson. Let's keep our eyes on the ball here.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. I say this once again
JOE WILSON IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!!!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

http://www.markarkleiman.com/archives/000049.html

September 30, 2003
"Married to the Former Valerie Plame"
<snip>
"So, as of the day before the Novak story broke, there was nada, zippo, zilch on the publicly available record linking Valerie Plame Wilson, wife of the retired ambassador, or Valerie Plame, energy consultant, to the CIA. And that's what the CIA reported to Justice: absent the leak, the media could not have guessed her identify. Which is why this story just moved to the front page.

Once her name was mentioned as the name of a CIA official, though, it would immediately occur to the counterintelligence bureaus of countries where Plame had traveled that any of their nationals with information about WMD acquisition who had spent time talking to "energy consultant" Valerie Plame, or to anyone working for the same "energy consulting firm," ought to be brought in and asked some questions, perhaps with a little physical encouragement to be responsive if such encouragement proved necessary.

The significance of using the name "Valerie Plame" in the leak wasn't that it did extra damage; the damage was done simply by identifying Joseph Wilson's wife as a CIA employee. The significance of using "Valerie Plame" is that it would have been used by only two sorts of people: her old friends and acquaintances from before her marriage, and people who had heard of her in the context of the covert side of her work. (Again, I'm accepting here the report that she didn't use the name "Plame" in her ordinary office work at Langley.)

That makes it less likely that the leak was a semi-innocent one, and more likely that whoever revealed it to the press, and especially whoever revealed it to the person who revealed it to the press, knew full well that it wasn't supposed to get out."
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wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Even if all this were true, and I don't believe it all is...
1) Tenet resigned on the basis of the falsity of information on yellowcake in the state of the union address. Are we suddenly taking that back? Where's Tenet's correction?

2) If Wilson were a liar and a blowhard, why not expose him as such? Identifying his wife was never anything but wrong, even if he were a gigantic liar.

3) If exposing Plame was not wrong, then why have these people been bending over backwards to hide their involvement in the act? If it wasn't wrong, then why not just admit it?

4) If it wasn't wrong to do it, then why did W say that it was a grave matter and that the involved parties would be dealt with?

Spin spin spin, you lying sacks of shit.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. trying to "prove" the negative?- Wilson showed the positive proof unlikely
to be true.

Bush lied - people died - and the media says don't look back

After all it was not a "real lie) - meaning provable since the Congo was on a Brit list - so there may have been British Congo info that the SOTU forgot to note!.

And Wilson says "Africa" was not in his report - just Niger - WHICH SEEMS A TRUTH AND INDEED WAS THE ONLY ASSIGNMENT - so now Wilson is overstating the truth?

I like Somerby, but this time he is very wrong.

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