Fellow clark supporters....say it aint so

[mantis]

Someone, ANYONE, please tell me things
aren't so bad for the good General in NH.

Anyone?

Please?

I'm a loyal Clarkie, but it seems he will come
in 4th....AT BEST. Not sure why he is dropping so
much either.

Maybe it was too good to be true. Oh well, I'll
be happy with whoever the nominee is and work
hard to get him elected Prez.

[wyldwolf]

1. It ain't so

Well, you asked for it to be said...

But really - wait...

[madmax]

2. Hang in there, the fight has just begun.

Rule #1 Don't panic :evilgrin:

:hi:

[mmonk]

3. First of all

it's one state. Second, wait to see where he comes in.

[funky_bug]

4. I ain't sayin nuthin but...

it ain't over till it's over. The last ARG poll had him in 2nd, with Dean behind by 1, and Edwards behind Dean by 1.

It's anybody's game now... but it's not time to get discouraged. There are many many states to go.

By the way, if it makes you feel better, I'm listening to the rebroadcast of his rally in NH today. A lady came up to him and said, "I was undecided also, but not anymore. I'm voting for you."

Now, the undecided was at 1% I believe, which is good news for America. It says that our candidates at least believe in somebody.

Hang in there... the polls, the vote, the candidate du-jour change quite often.

[Jerseycoa]

16. Ooooooh

:hug:

[Jerseycoa]

63. Clark supporters, read this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=193860

[maddezmom]

73. or read this one~Choo-Choo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=199293&mesg_id=199293

[smiley_glad_hands]

5. He's fine---if he can get 2nd or 3rd in NH---he's leading in

Arizona and Oklahoma.

[wroberts189]

6. The polls have been wrong before...

Just look at Iowa

[jmaier]

7. ah, relax!

If the polls are to be believed then Kerry is a dominant 1st and 2nd-4th are going to be almost statistical ties. That won't hurt Wes Clark at all. I tend to believe that indepedents will break toward Clark on the 27th and he'll finish above 20% and possibly in 2nd place. No worse than 3rd.

He's leading a post-Iowa OK poll by a good margin and will positioned to compete for a top spot in at least 6 of the 7 Feb 3rd races. He's running advertising in 10 states right now (the only candidate doing so) and has strong support in TN where early voters are already casting votes.

He is not favored at the moment but he's far from finished and in better shape than a couple of other prominent candidates. You should go to CSPAN.org and see if they have archived the video from his Nashua, NH rally this afternoon. Huge crowds, high energy and a great speech. That might cheer you up.

[lancdem]

8. I think he has a chance to do very well

in the Feb. 3 states.

[arewethereyet]

9. from an Edwards guy, let the people of NH tell you what they think

all this conjecture and "science" is just something to sell newspapers etc.

Until you learn its not going so well you have no reason to fret that it might be.

The same advice applies to all supporters for all candidates.

YOu HAVE to let the fat lady sing.

[neverforget]

10. The voters haven't spoken yet, only polls.

[Maddy McCall]

11. It ain't so!

So what. Go read this article on why New Hampshire isn't a big deal for Clark! His strength is the south and the southwest, where he will cream the others! Ok?

http://nativetimes.com/index.asp?action=displayarticle&article_id=3599

[KittyWampus]

12. Why Do You Think They Did The Mindfuck The Last Few Days?

Wes has solid support among Democrats and Independants.

Go to the freaking blog and keep the damn tv off unless you are watching Wes.

People reporting from different towns up there say they see tons of Clark signs...

Clark has organizations in states across the country which all the others don't have.

If it is a fair election, I believe Wes will win.

[carpetbagger]

13. Clark should finish second or third.

The originial plan was a third-place finish, then on to Feb 3, where the plan was to win OK, and place well in SC, AZ, NM. Edwards could have a lock on SC, but MO is now wide open.

If Clark wins a primary or two on that day, he's in good shape.

[SadEagle]

14. From a non-Clark supporter, but there is still some hope for him in NH

First of all, there isn't that much time left until Tuesday, so Edwards and Lieberman may not be able to catch up.

Second, NH is a semi-open primary. Independents can vote. This makes polling very hard --- it's hard to tell who a "likely voter is". Independents may like Clark over each of the 3 Senators. <1>

Also, if some of the reports of dirty tricks happening a true, and they are traced before the primary (unlikely, I know), we may just have some sort of a political earthquake.

And beyond that, he seems to be looking pretty well in some February 3rd states. Depending on the spin, he may do all-right there even if he does finish weak in NH.


<1> Which IMHO sucks -- the first 2 contests that have so much influence on the race should not be so open to non-Democrats, methinks.

[overground1]

15. he's dropping because he's been debunked

[funky_bug]

21. Thank you

I hope your next 188 posts are as substantiated, factually based, and edifying as this one. It's nice to see a new poster with so much to add to the board.

[madmax]

23. That a girl, Wife

Taken names and kicken butt. Honey, yourrrrr baaaaaaaack ;)

[funky_bug]

25. I are

All refreshed and reporting for duty, SIR!

[Qutzupalotl]

24. Brit Hume predicts he'll drop out after New Hampshire

even though he's just getting started. I wonder why?

They'll say it's because a supporter called Bush a deserter and he didn't disagree. I say Fox News is scared of Wes.

[funky_bug]

27. and I say

Fox news and Brit Hume can kiss my lilly-white ass.

Kucinich aint out
Lieberman aint out

And the train aint outta money either.

[Qutzupalotl]

30. Amen, sister!

Keep the faith. The best man WILL win!

Clark and Edwards will sweep the south, then we'll have a whole new ballgame!

[Qutzupalotl]

28. ...which is pure propaganda, by the way

No basis in reailty. Also, the polls are from before Wes' speech in New Hampshire. He had the place on their feet and electrified.

Clark/Edwards = 16 years of inspiring Democratic leadership!

[dennis4868]

31. Well if someone from FOX said it.....

then it must be true.....:-)

I cannot figure out what is funnier to watch....Jon Stewart or FOX.

[Qutzupalotl]

37. Fox Propaganda is hilarious.

It literally comes every other sentence. I've been having a ball this weekend laughing at it all. It's so not subtle.

Plus, they're stupid enough to overplay their hand and show us their strategy. You have to read between the lines a little, but I sure as hell can see it. You have to be the type who doesn't swallow it all wholesale. Fox watchers, you better chew before swallowing.

[dennis4868]

40. when i am down....

i turn ob FOX for a laugh or 2. They are like Limbuagh....you can never take them seriously.....its for comedy purposes only.

[pinkpops]

35. I wish Britt WOULD drop out

[leftist_rebel1569]

45. Brit Hume is full of crap

Brit's probably afraid of Clark, and that's coming from an Edwards supporter.

[mikehiggins]

49. Britt is a little irked at Clark

Clark pointed out that Britt's questions at the "un-debate" were based almost word for word on the RNC playbook.

Apparently the media believes you should never call them on their duplicity.

One of the first things Clark should do on being sworn in as President is to reinstate the equal-time rules AND direct the FCC (or whatever it's called today--The Ministry of Truth?) to evaluate each station for the amount of public service broadcasting it put out.

Screw the media whores.

[AntiCoup2K4]

66. Brit Hume's a fucking dickweed!

And so's his old buddy Peter Jennings. You can quote me on that.

And oh yeah.... Junior IS a piece of shit deserter too :evilgrin:

Obviously, I want Dean to win the nomination, as I feel he's the best candidate to beat the Fraudulent Chimp. But I'd like to see the General hang in there and keep the DLC sellouts worried, even knock em out of the running. I don't think Kerry's gonna play in the South. Or Lieberman.

[mikehiggins]

47. Debunked? Bunk.

That remark doesn't even make sense.

We expect a higher standard of bashing from anti-Clark types on DU.

We've had people post multi-page essays exposing the name of the Seville sweatshop workers who make Clark's monogrammed shorts.

Debunked? A bash like that is just embarrassing.

For shame.

Now go home and try to come up with something worth reading.

It doesn't have to be true, just of a high quality.

We hate to get bashed by amatuers.

[Egnever]

17. It aint so

I am no clarkie in fact I dont much like him however theres a long way to go. Despite the medias insistance that Iowa and New Hampshire are all improtant they are not.

Keep that chin up we are gonna have a horse race here and who the winner turns out to be in the end is still up in the air.

[dae]

33. Wrong post. n/t

[JPJones]

18. Fox is launching an all out...

attack on Clark. Don't be discouraged. Kerry will get his due soon.

CNN's poll is way out of whack with the many other polls that show Clark doing just fine. I also saw two polls out of Oklahoma that were done over the last week that showed Clark WAY ahead.

The goal was always to come in third in NH. Sure, we thought that it would be Dean vs. Clark after Feb. 3. It doesn't change the fact that these attacks can't continue forever, and that Feb. 3 should be our day.

[funky_bug]

29. He's pretty much the new kid

Look at it this way, he wasn't running in Iowa, so the attacks were focused on Dean, the front runner. Now that we're in Iowa, Clark is the newbie, thus they can do "breaking news" stories instead of the same ol stale cracker-jobs their were doing on the others.

[Qutzupalotl]

32. Exactly.

Plus, nationally, it's a 4-man race. So there are four tickets out of New Hampshire this time. And it's all because this field of candidates is unprecedented in its excellence!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. Clark has generally sucked during the debates

The more debates he does, the worse. That's not good - you can't win without doing debates, he just doesn't do them well. (Yeah, he's the debate champ from West Point; we all know that is completely different).

He does best informally in smaller groups - I've seen him electrify a crowd under those circumstances. He's just not speaking to the audience, and it shows.

[neverforget]

48. It would be nice if they asked him policy questions in a debate.

[mikehiggins]

50. These cattle call press conferences are not debates, no matter

how loosely you define the term.

Where are the statements of position? Where are the rebuttals? Where are the objective, disinterested moderators?

These things are more like Survivor Island than debates.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

61. I can't really argue with you there

it's true, unfortunately.

[dae]

20. Don't be discouraged. NH is not the proving ground, a 2nd, or 3rd would

be great there, but Feb 3rd will be Gen. Clark's big day.
Keep the faith.:)

[kayleybeth]

22. I'm not worried about it

No matter how Clark does in New Hampshire, it's JUST New Hampshire. Whether he comes in 1st place or 4th, we're still going on to Feb. 3 and beyond. Don't let the polls scare you!

GO WES GO!

[snyttri]

26. It ain't so-it's his first contest, there are 3 New England candidates-the

national campaign is underway. Voters in the remaining states want their chance to vote for Clark and they'll get it.

[pinkpops]

34. From ny times mag interview with Terry Mcaulffe

"As you know, it used to be Iowa and New Hampshire and then a six-week break. You know, Iowa and New Hampshire, great states -- but really not representative of the Democratic Party. "


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/magazine/25QUESTIONS.html

[funky_bug]

38. Oh pinky!

That is a GREAT quote. Gotta hang on to that one, guys!

Remember, all we really hoped for was 3rd... don't get down now!

[BlueStateGirl]

36. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Clark go into NH thinking a 3rd

place finish would be fine and dandy?

I don't think he was expecting to win it all there.

[arewethereyet]

41. he also thought Iowa was he Gephardt/Dean battle royale

and because of that it didn't matter much.

Things change and not always of your choosing.

[mikehiggins]

51. Yeah. Third place would be a great victory, all things considered.

It was our own hubris that led Clark supporters to dream and hope of a second place or even first place.

Fourth place is more likely, given the revitalised Edwards campaign.

So be it. This wasn't planned as a lightning strike but as a lengthy national campaign.

We have the candidate, we have the organisation, we have the money.

After NH we have the South.

Battle on, Xena!

[MODemocrat]

39. Mantis, don't despair..Bill Clinton didn't win in New Hampshire

but he sure kicked the butt of a sitting president. I won't give up on him if you don't. I'm a Dean or Clark supporter, it doesn't matter. :hi: :hug:

[meti57b]

42. This is in Kerry's neck of the woods.

They know him better. Clark will do great in other primaries.

[Carolina]

43. just remember:

Bush 41 lost NH in 1988 to Pat Buchanan
Clinton lost NH in 1992 to Paul Tsongas
Bush 43 lost NH in 2000 to John McCain

NH ain't the nation and based on recent history (above), doesn't forecast the nominee or the GE winner. If Clark comes in 2nd, 3rd or 4th, it will be OK.

As for Feb. 3, here in SC, he is looking mighty good. Great organization, lots of support from military folk and disenchanted repugs as well as Dems.

Cheer up, it ain't over yet. Kerry got an Iowa boost but there's a sympathy backlash for Dean because many people, this Clark supporter included, do not like how Kerry, Lieberman and Gephardt dumped on Dean. I have a few friends in NH who can't stand Kerry because of his IWR vote (yes, that remains an issue for many people still) and they are planning to vote for either Dean or Clark.

Don't believe the media whores, they want to sway the electorate.
My secret hope is that Dean wins NH or ties (exact percentage) with Kerry and Clark comes in #2. Then the media won't know what to do. Plus I would rather have a moving target, meaning a part of me hopes we don't select a nominee until the convention, that Clark goes to the convention strong (yet not with the requisite number of delegates). That way the repugs will still be on their toes and can't unleash their attack dog ads until after the convention (contract the time). If it's all decided by super Tuesday in March, the GOP will have nearly 8 months to spend with their war chest $$$
relentlessly.

[mikehiggins]

44. Nah, don't worry about it.

Right now he seems in a race with Edwards for third.

That is disturbing because we'll be facing Edwards again in the south but that is just about all that we have to worry about.

You can read elsewhere about all the reasons Clark should be happy to even be showing up on the radar but I'll leave that to others.

The bottom line is that Clark and Dean are raising a lot of money, and have widespread organizations all over the US.

Kerry has a tremendous advantage but also a terrible weakness. If he is perceived to stumble he is finished. Edwards has a great message and a great delivery but how much money does he have to keep going?

When you order a mailing or a phone or an office in a political campaign you have to pay for it, and just like a bankruptcy, usually you have to pay cash on the barrelhead. Nobody trusts a politician, which is usually wise.

So, over the long run, Dean and CLark are both much bettered situated to see this through to the end than either of the other candidates. The media, of course, will try their best to write off both men as soon as possible.

A primary battle between the patrician Yankee Senator and the Kennedy-esque young challenger from the South is the kind of storyline anyone in entertainment loves, and the newsmedia in 2004 is more entertainment than anything else.

Off hand I'd say the newsmedia wants Edward as the candidate to oppose Bush. He's an easy product to sell. Kerry is much more difficult to make appealing once the "glamour" of his Iowa win wears off. He just isn't good copy.

Having four campaigns to cover is timeconsuming and expensive. The sooner things get whittled down the better for the media. For us, in light of what is going on, the more the merrier and the longer the better. Clark has to chip away at the delegate count everywhere he can and go into the convention with a chunk and a half. Then, when the negotiations go into overdrive we'll see who ends up supporting whom, and who ends up still standing.

I'm betting it'll be Wesley Clark.

You should as well.

[jmusgrat]

46. Wes will win, just like Clinton did

I remember Clinton didn't do so good in NH, but soon after that he went on a roll, and just buried Bush Sr and Dole. I think Wes, no matter what he does in NH, will do exactly the same thing. Like some others have said, I think Fox as well as some of the other candidates know this to be true so that's why they're attacking him. Note to all of the other candidates: Just move out of the way of the train!

[exJW]

52. Mantis, your post seems disingenuous

"4th AT BEST"? "Oh well..."

Methinks you are not a Clark supporter at all.

[mikehiggins]

53. Don't shoot the messenger

Even if Mantis is Britt Hume in disguise, she brought up a good point that all of us should be examining closely.

This is the opening days for our campaign, and just another election day for all the others. Everyone Clark faces is more experienced at this than we are and we have to expect some stumbles and mistakes along the way.

Just remember the Kassarine Pass in WWII, and then remember who wound up winning when the dust settled over Berlin. This election tells the world we're here. February should tell the world we have the winning candidate.

If it takes us to the convention to make it happen, so be it.

We have the candidate, the people power and the money to slog it out, so if Mantis is not a good person and is just trying to disrupt our zen-like detachment, she still did us a favor reminding us of the truth. No fair-weather soldiers here, right?

Right!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

54. He's in 3rd in most of the polls. NH doesn't matter as much as Feb 3

where he's doing quite well.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

55. Gosh - you give up easily. Clark moved into 1st in the Ok poll

n/t

[Loren645]

56. Is this the first time there's a six week break between the NH primary

and the next ones?

[mikehiggins]

59. This is the closest together the primaries have ever been so far as I know

The idea was to get a nominee in a hurry so we could get to work beating Bush. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening.

With MeetUps taking place all over the place, Clark and Dean with more money that God (or at least Kerry), Kerry scoring outrageous in Iowa and Edwards looking good in the Southland, we may not end up with an actual candidate until the convention itself.

This can work out well, in some ways. We may bankrupt FAUX and CNN chasing five or six candidates all over the landscape and paying for all those asshole pundits and polls as they screw everything up. The GOP will go crazy wondering which Democrat they have to go after and with any sort of luck their entire operation will melt down.

At any rate, no matter what happens in New Hampshire, this should be a campaign to remember.

Battle on, Xena!

[BootinUp]

62. You know the more I think about it

The more it seems apparent that the faster schedule means that candidates will last through more states. Thats a given isn't it? The money goes further, the media has less chance to spin in between, candidates can always look to the next election day. Am I wrong?

[shivaji]

57. Seems to me there are more Clark supporters on DU than

there are voters in NH. If y'all will move to NH and get registered fast, Wes might have an excellent chance of winning on tuesday LOL.

GO DOCTOR DEAN!!!!!!!!!

[WillyBrandt]

58. Thank you

I hope your upcoming posts are as substantiated, factually based, and edifying as this one. It's nice to see a poster with so much to add to the board.

[quaker bill]

60. Don't give up.

I support Dean but I respect Wes Clark as well. We need people that will take on the misadministration, like Wes and Howard Dean.

Both Clark and Dean have the cash to carry on the battle and should.

[John_H]

64. Sounds like you've been listening to all those scared Rethugs.

who simultaneously soil themselves whenever the words We and Clark are used in a sentence. He's going to finish second, then rack up some serious wins in the house. Then everyone at Freerepublic.com can watch Chimp's poll numbers drop faster than teeth from their own mouths.

[West Coast Democrat]

65. Oh, brother!!

We don't need any more fair-weather supporters.

[xultar]

67. Sorry, it is so. It is as bad as it looks, but that is ok

cuz we deserve what we get if we don't nominate Wesley Clark.

[tishaLA]

68. I'm sad again

I just saw the fucks on Tweety saying Clark will be a big loser in NH. Including that asshole murderer Scarborough. And even suggesting that only Dean and Kerry will have the money to really continue. At least I *think* the campaign has lots of money left.....

Damn.

[Qutzupalotl]

69. That's what they want people to think.

They think Bush will beat anyone except Clark. They're scared because they can't take him down.

Hey, when life hands you instant lemonade mix...

[VOX]

71. Exactly. Basic propaganda trick. Repeat the message over and over...

until it sticks. (Think of Al Gore and the "I created the Internet" media-fabricated lie that *still* floats around.)

The media is playing kingmaker, and it stinks. It's up to us to stick it to the lying media -- what they did to Dean is a disgrace, and what they're doing to Clark is just as bad.

[Woodstock]

70. Hang in there, it is early days yet

I'm a Dean supporter who had Clark as my #2 choice. See what happens with the primaries to come, so far it's been just NH & Iowa, and they are hardly typical of the US. Also, anything can happen tomorrow.

[incapsulated]

72. If you are *really* a "loyal supporter" of Clark

Then you show very little understanding of his campaign strategy, which is hope for the best in NH, and go for broke on Feb. 3 and beyond.

Clark was never going to win NH, and 4th place doesn't mean anything. We win or lose in the south and the west, period.

"Maybe it was too good to be true. Oh well, I'll
be happy with whoever the nominee is and work
hard to get him elected Prez."

Maybe you should either get behind Clark or find a candidate you aren't ready to dump before a single meaningful vote has been cast.