Has anyone asked this? What if Plame is a set-up and it backfires on us?

[lyberyl_prygryssyve]

We all know how the * Administration is adept at playing the people and the media like harps. What if this whole situation is just another example of that? What if it's yet another plan to embarrass Democrats and win yet another set of elections? Are we putting too much into this?

[dave29]

1. what if the sky isn't blue?

seriosuly. What would we do then?

[lyberyl_prygryssyve]

15. But the sky isn't really blue

It's not blue at night, is it? ;-)

[dave29]

16. It is, on the other side of the earth

unless it's cloudy.

[lyberyl_prygryssyve]

20. Ha ha

Still, it's not the sky we're seeing as blue, but the light from the sun being bent into the blue color by the air.

[dave29]

24. touche

more specifically, oxygen and light resonate well with bluer end of the visible spectrum and scatter those photons in all directions, as opposed to the other visible light that continues onwards without as much scattering.

But I meant the sky is blue, as in it is "sad". Sometimes it's so sad it cries. So would you if you thought Karl Rove was going to avoid jail time.

[tk2kewl]

2. Forget it. Fitz is not playing with the criminals.

[jfxgillis]

13. That's right.

I repeat, that's correct.

The behavior of the Special Counsel does not permit the hypothesis of sandbag.

[xultar]

3. That is what I've been saying. But people continued to do the happy dance.

What if Rove is the distraction from someone else being the leaker. They can easily discredit us by putting him out there as the leaker after the fact to Cooper. He'll get off cuz it is after the fact and Bolton will squeeze through like liquid shit.

Further discrediting Dems raising issues in the future and bulletproofing the Admin against DSM allegations which is the key to the war.

[tk2kewl]

9. If this is the case they will be in even deeper if/when Fitz indicts

whomever he indicts. And it sure seems like there will be indictments.

[xultar]

26. I hope so. But I don't think there will be any indictments of KKKarl,

or anyone else important. It will would be of a low-level secretary gaffer type.

[lancdem]

27. Fitzgerald doesn't settle for indictments of low-level people

Check out his track record in Illinois and New York.

[lancdem]

25. I'm certain Fitzgerald is after more than just Rove

Many others are involved.

[xultar]

29. A shopping cart full of low-level staffers.

[lancdem]

31. No, this involves big fish

Count on it.

[xultar]

46. I pray you are right.

[LiberalFighter]

38. Maybe he can get Bolton while he is at it along with gw*dipshit

[ET Awful]

4. And what if the world is really only 6,000 years old and the evidence

proving evolution is all made up and there really were dinosaurs on the Ark.

[Zen Democrat]

22. OMG -- then we're all going to HELL????? Lions and tigers and bears!

Oh my.

[NMDemDist2]

48. OMG totally off topic but......

We (hubby and I) had a work friend over last weekend so her 12 y.o. son could look through hubby's telescope.

My work pal is a great Democrat, but her ex is a RW Wack

so as we're waiting for the pizza the topic of earth changes comes up and I mentioned about the ice cores the scientists use to look at the atmosphere from thousands of years ago.

The kid tells me with a straight face that the earth is only 5000 years old. I ask "where did you hear that? School? Church?"

"My dad" says he, "and the Bible proves it!"


:banghead:

[Inland]

5. What Rove admitted is enough to demand his resignation.

I dont' see how standing up for national security and the law hurts any.

[skids]

6. Don't think so.

Rove isn't used to this kind of battle. Fitzgerald is no Ken Starr. He doesn't prance in front of the cameras. This means Rove is working in the dark, and his manuvres are imperfect. That's what guys like Fitzgerald thrive on. They lay out miles and miles of rope and let you hang yourself. We already see that this has caused him to be caught lying to the FBI (a crime).

[Danger Duck]

7. It's not if, but when.

Let's look at history here. Rove has been cooperating upto this point. He even publicly acknowledged his role. It is a set up. This administration never admits to anything, regardless of the obvious culpability. Keep an eye on this one. There is a Rovian double switch coming.

[lyberyl_prygryssyve]

17. It just seems too easy

I mean, a deaf and blind Forrest Gump could've gumshoed this whole scandal.

[ClassWarrior]

8. "What if?" is just a way to make ourselves sick over nothing.

Inflict maximum political damage on the criminals in DC, keep the pressure on, and never give up.

NGU.

[still_one]

10. here is the problem with that

it was the CIA, NOT the democrats who referred this case to the justice department, who referred it to a special prosecuter

[SheepyMcSheepster]

11. backfires how?

i don't see how it can backfire.
there is a grand jury investigation going on. someone is in jail because of this investigation. if this all amounts to nothing it is the prosecutor's problem not a Democratic one.

[Walt Starr]

12. Fitzgerald would have closed oout his investigation over a year ago

if that was the case.

[lancdem]

30. Exactly

[kentuck]

14. Stop wringing your hands and attack...

No time for Chicken Littles....

[lyberyl_prygryssyve]

18. I don't mean for people to back down from the investigation

I just hope what you said doesn't become another set of famous last words.

[Dhalgren]

19. Nice try. Next!

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. LOL: Oh, we're real worried about THAT!

There were only twenty other "DUers" making the same suggestion yesterday.

Wonder why so many? Oh, the fear of it all...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Desperate much?

[pgh_dem]

28. hehe

:popcorn:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. .

[blm]

32. Nope. It's their set up that is cause for criminality. They finally got

caught. That is the part they didn't factor in because they got away with everything else BECAUSE the media helped them. A prosecutor doing his job goes with the evidence and NOT the planted spin.

[elperromagico]

33. We'll see how much of a "set-up" it is when the grand jury

finishes its work in a few months.

[OregonBlue]

34. Going after the press?

Rove looked very smug sitting behind the President yesterday. I worry that in the end, it's the press that the prosecutor is going after. That would certainly play right into the hands of the Republicans who are screaming about the MSM.

[freeplessinseattle]

35. he's delusional, but he may get off by reason of insanity n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. Welcome to DU!

I'm not worried about the prosecutor going after the press. No one in the press has a high level security clearance with knowledge of covert CIA NOCs...and if somehow that were the case, one can only conclude that he/she is a CIA high level operative as well.

Reports came out a couple of days ago that the WH is worried about indictment(s) coming out of the grand jury investigation. Indictments of WH official(s), specifically.

If Karl Rove was stupid enough to negligently make a connection of Wilson=Plame=CIA=Political Motive against Bush without first checking her status, then use it for political bullets, it is at best gross incompetence and wreckless disregard that jeopordizes the lives of individuals. Individuals who have placed their lives on the line for this country. It blows the cover of an entire operation years in the making under the taxpayers dime. All destroyed. And all for win at all costs gamesmanship.

Karl Rove needs to be indicted, heavily fined, and doing time in Siberia.

[GracieM]

42. Welcome to the DU

From another newbie

[OregonBlue]

44. Thank you

I've been reading for a long time but this one has me worried. They seem too smug. Maybe MSM will finally take off the kid gloves and go after this corrupt bunch.

[ChiciB1]

36. Nah... Not On This One!

David Gregory, David Corn, Tom Oliphant, Michael Isikoff, Joe Connason, Al Franken, Rhandi Rhodes, Will Pitt and quite few others are ALL relatively looking to "out" the corrupt ones.

David Gregory was on The Daily Show a while back. That fact alone says something. He wasn't talking chit-chat with Jon, the dialog was about "the corrupt ones"! He and Jon seemed to know each other too!

[fujiyama]

37. This will play itself out in the courts

Personally I believe Rove is a treasonous bastard, but at the minimum he should be held accountable for outing a covert CIA operative.

The defense RWers are using isn't sticking. Plame had no authority to authorize Wilson's mission and either way it still doesn't justify Rove telling Novak Plame's status. It's clear this was done with a political agenda - to try to smear Wilson.

And plus, Rove lied to a grand jury. Aren't repukes concerned about lying to grand juries? They were all over Clinton for what his lies over sex. This is much more serious in that it ruined Plame's career and entire operation - possibly putting people's lives in danger. This was done to make it easier to fix the intel.

[Norquist Nemesis]

40. Karl Rove not only 'outed a CIA operative' though

He blew the cover of an entire covert operation. Whether he was the originator or the confirmation of her employment makes no difference. His involvement blew the cover off the whole thing.

[fujiyama]

41. Exactly

He destroyed the operation because it was researching WMDs.

I think the outing of Plame was done not just to damage the Wilsons' careers and/or reputations. It was done also with the intent of destroying any objective operations researching WMD (remember Cheney himself went to CIA to get them to tell him what he wanted to hear - and Wolfy and others set up another bullshit agency connected to the Pentaon - forgot the name though).

[Norquist Nemesis]

43. The Office of Special Plans (OSP)

Set up by Rumsfeld to second guess CIA and stovepipe info to the WH.

OMG! :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
from a thread I posted earlier today about yesterday's debate...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1930814&mesg_id=1930814

Mrs. FEINSTEIN. Mr. President, there are some who may disagree with the proposition at the heart of Senator Reid's amendment; that is, that U.S. Government officials who violate the laws governing safeguarding sources should not be permitted to have continued access to that information. I happen to agree with that. I happen to think it is a fair point to discuss. As the Senator from Connecticut said, it is appropriate for this discussion.

In fact, there is a document that every employee signs. It is entitled ``Department of Defense Secrecy Agreement.'' The second part of it reads:

I agree that I will never divulge, publish or reveal, either by word, conduct, or by any other means, any classified information, intelligence, or knowledge, except in the performance of my official duties and in accordance with the laws of the United States, unless specifically authorized in writing in each case by the Secretary of Defense.

It is my understanding Senators do not sign it, Members of Congress do not sign it, but members of the administration and staff do sign this document. "

Who was planning the war???

[PurityOfEssence]

45. Rove is not a fencer, he wields a battle ax. Rove doesn't dance, he stomps

Rove doesn't sing, he screams. Rove is a primitive; that's why people think he's such a genius: he's unbounded by common, unspoken covenants of society. He's pretty bright, but he's no Cheney or Rumsfeld; he's possibly the most overrated intellect this side of Rice.

To suggest that this is an elaborate construct of byzantine fakes and daring self-exposures just to sucker rivals into exposing themselves as such just doesn't pass the sniff test. He's got too many people spooked, and they have no reason to be afraid.

This guy is simply not that good, not that subtle and DEFINITELY not possessed of enough self-control.

We've got to stop fearing the bogeyman; this guy makes his living by doing things decent folks wouldn't even contemplate, nothing more. That's why he's had a good run of it.

He's the modern Martin Bormann, and he's going to fall as hard as Robespierre did; he's made far too many enemies in his own camp over the years, and now he's done something that exposes them all as so ruthless that they'd commit treason and make us all incredibly vulnerable to (booga-booga-booga) WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, all for personal and party gain.

Let's just hope that prominent Republicans rally around him so the stink wears off on them too for their willingness to engage in such a filthy crime, and let's hope they cling to it and equivocate this dastardly act to no end. I want to be able to ask them "so, you're pro-treason?"

[Zen Democrat]

47. So far, Coleman, King, Hatch, Hutchison, Frist have STINK all over them.

There also some Democrats beginning to smell. James Carville has made some very odd comments, enough that I suspect he may be concerned over his wife's involvement in this. Mary was a member of WHIG. Wonder if she was called to testify?