Matt Cooper: What I Told The Grand Jury

[kayleybeth]

EXCLUSIVE Matthew Cooper reveals exactly what Karl Rove told him--and what the special counsel zeroed in on

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083870,00.html

It was my first interview with the President, and I expected a simple "Hello" when I walked into the Oval Office last December. Instead, George W. Bush joked, "Cooper! I thought you'd be in jail by now." The leader of the free world, it seems, had been following my fight against a federal subpoena seeking my testimony in the case of the leaking of the name of a CIA officer. I thought it was funny and good-natured of the President, but the line reminded me that I was, very weirdly, in the Oval Office,out on bond from a prison sentence, awaiting appeal--in large part, for protecting the confidence of someone in the West Wing. "What can I say, Mr. President," I replied, smiling. "The wheels of justice grind slowly."

After a fight that went all the way to the Supreme Court, the wheels of justice have stopped grinding--for me, anyway. Last week I testified before the federal grand jury investigating the leak. I did so after I received a specific last-minute waiver from one of my sources, Karl Rove, the President's top political adviser, releasing me from any claim of confidentiality he might have about our conversations in July 2003. Under federal law grand jurors and prosecutors are sworn to secrecy but those who testify, like me, are under no such obligation, which is why I'm able to tell you what happened in the grand jury room. Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel, told me that he would prefer that I not discuss the matter, and I suspect he said the same thing to White House officials who are now treating his request as a command and refusing to comment on the case. I don't know if I can illuminate this confounding investigation, but I can at least explain my small part in it. Like the blindfolded man and the elephant, all I know is what seems to be in front of me.

<snip>

So did Rove leak Plame's name to me, or tell me she was covert? No. Was it through my conversation with Rove that I learned for the first time that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and may have been responsible for sending him? Yes. Did Rove say that she worked at the "agency" on "WMD"? Yes. When he said things would be declassified soon, was that itself impermissible? I don't know. Is any of this a crime? Beats me. At this point, I'm as curious as anyone else to see what Patrick Fitzgerald has.
----------------------------

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[whistle]

1. Shrub was still being the frat -boy.....

....the more I hear about *'s remarks which he makes behind closed doors, the more he sounds and acts like the spoiled rich boss I worked for who inherited his father's successful printing and marketing business. Those very same words would have come right of that bosses mouth.

[tofubo]

8. just remember what this is all about

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2020/The%20Status%20of%20Nuclear%20Inspections%20in%20Iraq.htm

Dr. Mohammed ElBaradei, The Status of Nuclear Inspections in Iraq, January 27, 2003 w/att: IAEA Update Report for the Security Council Pursuant to Resolution 1441 (2002), January 27, 2003.

"To conclude: we have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear weapons program since the elimination of the program in the 1990s. However, our work is steadily progressing and should be allowed to run its natural course. With our verification system now in place, barring exceptional circumstances, and provided there is sustained proactive cooperation by Iraq, we should be able within the next few months to provide credible assurance that Iraq has no nuclear weapons program. These few months would be a valuable investment in peace because they could help us avoid a war. We trust that we will continue to have your support as we make every effort to verify Iraq's nuclear disarmament through peaceful means, and to demonstrate that the inspection process can and does work, as a central feature of the international nuclear arms control regime."

naaah, we can't do the theft of billions thru controlled kaos if we don't invade

they KNEW they didn't have nukes
they KNEW wilson and others were correct to question the administrations insistance of the 'nooklier' threat
RoveGate is just a small portion of the WarGate we should be hammmering on

[babylonsister]

2. This seems to show that the blivet doesn't have a

care in the world, or didn't in December. Me thinks the teflon is wearing awfully thin - - finally. Guess it's all not such a big joke anymore, eh? I long to see him hauled away in chains, or resigning/ being impeached in disgrace.

[tsuki]

3. I thought grand jury testimony was secret.

[kayleybeth]

4. Testimony is not secret...

Under federal law grand jurors and prosecutors are sworn to secrecy but those who testify, like me, are under no such obligation, which is why I'm able to tell you what happened in the grand jury room.

[Tennessee Gal]

5. Wait just a darn minute!

What the hell does all this mean?

"So did Rove leak Plame's name to me, or tell me she was covert? No."

So he already knew her name? Who told him her name? And why?

"Was it through my conversation with Rove that I learned for the first time that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and may have been responsible for sending him? Yes. Did Rove say that she worked at the "agency" on "WMD"? Yes. When he said things would be declassified soon, was that itself impermissible?"

"When he said things would be declassified soon"..............Isn't that the same as admitting he was telling Cooper that Plame was covert?

ROVE'S PROBLEMS AS IDENTIFIED BY HENRY WAXMAN......

KARL ROVE'S NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT

The nondisclosure agreement signed by White House officials such as Mr. Rove states: "I will never divulge classified information to anyone" who is not authorized to receive it.

THE PROHIBITION AGAINST "CONFIRMING" CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

Before confirming the accuracy of what appears in the public source, the signer of the SF 312 must confirm through an authorized official that the information has, in fact, been declassified. If it has not, confirmation of its accuracy is also an unauthorized disclosure.

THE INDEPENDENT DUTY TO VERIFY THE CLASSIFIED STATUS OF INFORMATION

Mr. Rove's attorney has implied that if Mr. Rove learned Ms. Wilson's identity and occupation from a reporter, this somehow makes a difference in what he can say about the information. This is inaccurate. The executive order states: "Classified information shall not be declassified automatically as a result of any unauthorized disclosure of identical or similar information."

Mr. Rove was not at liberty to repeat classified information he may have learned from a reporter. Instead, he had an affirmative obligation to determine whether the information had been declassified before repeating it. The briefing booklet is explicit on this point: "before disseminating the information elsewhere ... the signer of the SF 312 must confirm through an authorized official that the information has, in fact, been declassified."

"NEGLIGENT" DISCLOSURE OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

Mr. Rove's attorney has also implied that Mr. Rove's conduct should be at issue only if he intentionally or knowingly disclosed Ms. Wilson's covert status. In fact, the nondisclosure agreement and the executive order require sanctions against security clearance holders who "knowingly, willfully, or negligently" disclose classified information. The sanctions for such a breach include "reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions."

THE WHITE HOUSE OBLIGATIONS UNDER EXECUTIVE ORDER 12958

Under the executive order, the White House has an affirmative obligation to investigate and take remedial action separate and apart from any ongoing criminal investigation. The executive order specifically provides that when a breach occurs, each agency must "take appropriate and prompt corrective action." This includes a determination of whether individual employees improperly disseminated or obtained access to classified information.

The executive order further provides that sanctions for violations are not optional. The executive order expressly provides: "Officers and employees of the United States Government ... shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently ... disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified."

There is no evidence that the White House complied with these requirements.

[leveymg]

9. Rove knew the information he was giving Cooper was classified.

"Rove told me material was going to be declassified in the coming days that would cast doubt on Wilson's mission and his findings."

snip

"Rove did, however, clearly indicate that she worked at the "agency"--by that, I told the grand jury, I inferred that he obviously meant the CIA and not, say, the Environmental Protection Agency. Rove added that she worked on "WMD" (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. This was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife.

"Rove never once indicated to me that she had any kind of covert status. I told the grand jury something else about my conversation with Rove. Although it's not reflected in my notes or subsequent e-mails, I have a distinct memory of Rove ending the call by saying, "I've already said too much."


There it is. Fitz has an open-and-shut case against Rove for violating his Nondisclosure Agreement.
:7 :bounce: :toast:

[Pachamama]

17. Unless Rove was an idiot w/ a lobotomy, there was no way he didn't know

that the info he was confirming, denying, and supplying was classified info. There is also no way that Rove could think for a moment that a REPORTER had classified info security clearance, so whether a REPORTER like Cooper had classified info (such as whether someone was an agent) and was asking for confirmation, Rove should have only been able to say "I am sorry, but I'm not allowed to discuss, confirm or deny any information that could be classified to an individual w/out proper security clearance, so please don't ask these questions". Emphasis on the words COULD because even alluding that the Reporter may be correct and that they have info on an agent would be a confirmation.

Leveymg - I believe you hit the nail on the head! Even if Rove isn't guilty of violating the law that Poppy Bush put into effect about outing and identifying agents, he is DEFINETLY guilty of violating his NDA and its most likely that the conspiracy for cover-up and lying to the FBI or CIA or Grand Jury thst will get him and others in this White House.

:toast:

[leveymg]

26. W has more a plausible defense w/the lobotomy defense. Karl is going down.

Miller may have had a security clearance, given to her when she was in Iraq. That's been disputed. I think Miller may have been a source for both Rove and Novak, and could have supplied one or both of them with info about Plame's undercover status. Rove said Novak was his source, so he's getting a perjury rap too. Scooter is nailed for unauthorized disclosure just like Rove. He's going down, too.

There's still a lot we don't know, because the second act hasn't started. We'll find out who Miller's source was when Fitz has Miller indicted for conspiracy along with Rover and Scooter -- that will be a plea bargain lever that Fitz uses to get more info from the three of them. Fitz wants to know what Cheney and/or Bush knew and did. If they knew about this scheme, they're going down on conspiracy charges. Can't imagine Cheney didn't know. As for Bush, who knows, and franly, without Rove and Cheney, he's too stupid to leave in office unattended, so they'll force him out some old way.

This is justTOOOO good. So, we'll wait and see.

[Rebellious Republican]

12. "Wait just a darn minute" back up and think about what he said.....

"So did Rove leak Plame's name to me, or tell me she was covert? No".

That statement does not mean that she wasn't, it just means Rove did not tell him she was.

If Rove had told him point blank, then he probably would have thought twice about using this info, correct?

Why would Rove want to plant the seed that he could not use the info?

Wasn't the whole point of Roves conversation with him to out Plame?

"Was it through my conversation with Rove that I learned for the first time that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and may have been responsible for sending him? Yes. Did Rove say that she worked at the "agency" on "WMD"? Yes. When he said things would be declassified soon, was that itself impermissible? I don't know".

Would this statement lead a journalist,hungry for a scoop, to believe that the declassification of this info was just hung up in bureaucratic red tape.

That it was not sensitive information and was usable without any worry of retribution?

What journalist would sit on this info to long, allowing some one else to get the scoop, isn't the news business about beating someone else to the punch line, so they can say I got there first.

There by enhancing their own marketability to possible future editors and employers.

I think Rove was playing him like a Fiddle.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. "things would be de-classified soon . ."

Why that there is yor ole smokin gun you bin lookin' fer.

Karl Rove freely acknowledging to Mathew Cooper that he is divulging information that at the time he was discussing it was classified. Gosh, I might consider that "knowingly" disclosing classified info about a CIA agent.

[Pachamama]

19. The other Smoking Gun:

Rove to Cooper "I've already said too much"...

Rove knew that he said too much and classified info to an individual w/out security clearances....that is a violation of his signed NDA as a White House employee....

[liberace]

24. De-classified "things"

I don't think Cooper was saying that what Rove told him in the phone call was necessarily classified information. I think what Rove said was that "things" would soon be de-classified in the Wilson matter.

I've heard it speculated that Rove might have been referring to the State Department memo. Or, perhaps he knew Novak was about to blow Valerie's cover, at which point the CIA would revoke her covert status and then her identity would no longer be classified.

It is, however, interesting that Rove mentioned de-classification in his phone call, which suggests that he was sensitive to that subject, and in mentioning that Wilson's wife worked for the "Agency" may have realized that he was dangerously close to "saying too much already."

[HR_Pufnstuf]

27. "I've already said too much."

lol.



Also, if the friday desperation leak about Rover's testimony proves to be a true depiction of Rover's testimony that "the media did it", and it is later proved false by other testimony, is perjury a crime?

[kayleybeth]

7. Libby replied, "Yeah, I've heard that too,"

"This was actually my second testimony for the special prosecutor. In August 2004, I gave limited testimony about my conversations with Scooter Libby. Libby had also given me a specific waiver, and I gave a deposition in the office of my attorney. I have never discussed that conversation until now. In that testimony, I recounted an on-the-record conversation with Libby that moved to background. On the record, he denied that Cheney knew about or played any role in the Wilson trip to Niger. On background, I asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, "Yeah, I've heard that too,"or words to that effect. Like Rove, Libby never used Valerie Plame's name or indicated that her status was covert, and he never told me that he had heard about Plame from other reporters, as some press accounts have indicated. Did Fitzgerald's questions give me a sense of where the investigation is heading? Perhaps. He asked me several different ways if Rove indicated how he had heard that Plame worked at the CIA. (He did not, I told the grand jury.) Maybe Fitzgerald is interested in whether Rove knew her CIA ties through a person or through a document."

[eomer]

10. Additional excerpts from the Cooper Time Magazine story

are available on rawstory:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/What_Karl_Rove_and_Cheneys_chief_of_staff_told__0717.html

[leveymg]

11. KICK THIS, FOLKS

:kick:

[DemsUnited]

13. Two clear problems for Rove as a result of this testimony.

According to yesterday's "leaked" news, Rove testified that Cooper called him to talk about welfare reform and that Wilson came up later. According to Cooper:

<snip>
To me this suggested that Rove may have testified that we had talked about welfare reform, and indeed earlier in the week, I may have left a message with his office asking if I could talk to him about welfare reform. But I can't find any record of talking about it with him on July 11, and I don't recall doing so.
<snip>

Again, according to yesterday's "leaks", Rove called the White House National Security advisor to report his conversation with Cooper. The spin the Repugs have tried to put on it was Rove was being ever so responsible. Coopers testimony gives it another spin:

<snip>
I told the grand jury something else about my conversation with Rove. Although it's not reflected in my notes or subsequent e-mails, I have a distinct memory of Rove ending the call by saying, "I've already said too much." This could have meant he was worried about being indiscreet, or it could have meant he was late for a meeting or something else. I don't know, but that sign-off has been in my memory for two years.
<snip>

[whatelseisnew]

18. I've already said too much - Doesn't mean you're late

Worried about being indiscreet
or
cueing the scoop?

[tk2kewl]

14. it would be declassified soon...

right after Novak blows her cover and there is no reason left to keep it secret

[Pachamama]

15. Holy Sh*t! I didn't realize that Cooper had actually interviewed *! That

"joke" by * (what a funny jokester he is - more like a laughing hyena a**hole) is an interesting revelation about how much Bush knows or follows what is going on related to the outing of Valerie Plame...

After reading this interview and recounting by Matt Cooper, I have an even stronger feeling that when the grand jury testimony is revealed and that the indictments come flying, its going to get ugly...

[sundancekid]

25. I agree. and following his own advice, the rovester should be indicted

... it sure as hell is no time for therapy!!! so, who's your daddy now mr jokester chimpster???

[whatelseisnew]

16. How damning is it?

Rove did not leak Plame's name to me.

Rove did not tell me she was covert.

Rove told me Wilson's wife worked at the CIA.

Rove told me Plame may have been responsible for sending Wilson.

Rove told me she worked at the "agency" on "WMD".

[ChiciB1]

21. And More Importantly....

Which ones are they going to use to slip through, and spin the information!

I was flipping channels this AM after Washington Journal and saw that CNN (UGH) was having a town hall meeting of sorts, so I listening in. Bob Franken on the subject of the McClellan briefs said, that even though the press wanted information, that he thought the press at gone over the top to some extent!! I recall that HE asked a couple of questions too! Did THEY get to him since then???

And I noticed that VERY LITTLE time was spent on the issue, going then to "hurricane coverage"! Gee, that was interesting! I had to leave switch the channel and decided it wasn't worth my time!

Shall we sit an wait with baited breath as they keep spinning and trying to make Joe Wilson the real subject???



:nuke: :wtf: :puke: :puke:

[Broken Acorn]

20. Are all reporters as dumb as Cooper?

No wonder Rove invited this dumbass into the WH for milk and cookies. These 'reporters' believe anything the WH tells them and then turns around and repeats their talking points far and wide.

What a sorry state of journalism we're in today.

[leveymg]

31. Actually, Cooper's article was quite critical of the WH smear job against

Wilson. Rove probably assumed that Cooper would be a good lap dog, because he was new and threw him that bone thinking he could cultivate Cooper as a reliable stooge for further dirty-tricks and leaks.

Cooper's okay, as far as I can tell. Has anyone seen him write any real crap?

[crispini]

22. Has anyone read the whole thing,

and is it worth coughing up the $$$ for subscription? I might have to do so.....

[whatelseisnew]

23. I think Halliburton posted the whole thing on this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1633703

whoops- sorry, it was deleted by admin (+4 paragraph rule?)

[Garbo 2004]

29. check http://truthout.org/ for the article. n/t

[Mnemosyne]

28. ,

:kick: :kick:

[Algorem]

30. Cooper tomorrow,Charlie Rose

7/18/2005


MATT COOPER, Time



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