MSNBC: "Subtle shift: Bush appears to narrow criteria for firing"

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

Bush says he will fire anyone who breaks law
President appears to qualify standard for firing in CIA-leak case



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8605680/

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Monday that if anyone on his staff committed a crime in the CIA-leak case, that person will "no longer work in my administration." His statement represented a shift from a previous comment, when he said that he would fire anyone shown to have leaked information that exposed the identity of a CIA officer.

At the same time, Bush yet again sidestepped a question on the role of his top political adviser, Karl Rove, in the matter.

"We have a serious ongoing investigation here and it's being played out in the press," Bush said at an East Room news conference. Bush, appearing with visiting Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India, spoke a day after Time magazine's Matthew Cooper said that a 2003 phone call with Rove was the first he heard about the wife of Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson apparently working for the CIA.

Bush said in June 2004 that he would fire anyone in his administration shown to have leaked information that exposed the identity of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame. On Monday, however, he added the qualifier that it would have to be shown that a crime was committed. Asked at a June 10, 2004 news conference if he stood by his pledge to fire anyone found to have leaked Plame's name, Bush answered, "Yes. And that's up to the U.S. attorney to find the facts."

[stopbush]

1. Hmmm? Roget's doesn't list "subtle" as an alternative

under their entries for blatant, lying or cowardly.

Maybe I need to buy a newer thesarus.

[central scrutinizer]

48. translation of "subtle shift" "appears"

given that this is from MSRNC those are very harsh words and would be translated as "diametrically opposed" and "blatantly obvious" from a more neutral source.

[aggiesal]

85. Actual Quote:

"If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration,"

As I remember, King George has been convicted of Drunk Driving.
Isn't this a crime?
Shouldn't he fire himself?

[priller]

2. No, should be "Substantial Shift"

Or how about "Seismic Shift"? All nicely alliterative.

[fob]

4. FLIP-FLOP is the appropriate qualifier.

[PurityOfEssence]

19. Shout that one from the rooftops

He makes Wallace the Waffle Whiffer look like a piker.

[mac56]

72. Wallace The Waffle Whiffer!!

Oh boy, that took me back.

[sub.theory]

47. Damn straight!

Bush is a FLIP-FLOPPER!

So much for returning honesty and dignity to the White House *snarf*.

Worst. (p)Resident. Ever.

[fob]

3. That smarmy-ass face on rova the hut makes me ill.

[kestrel91316]

80. "Rova the Hut" ...................perfect!

Edited because I can no longer spell.

[JDPriestly]

5. Weasel! Weasel! Flip Flop! Flip Flop!

What about Bush's "steadfast warrior" image? Isn't he the one who never says he was wrong or sorry? Isn't why the right-wing nuts love him so much? The world must really be coming to an end for some of the most extreme Bush-worshipers.

[Infomaniac]

6. Flip-Flopper

The next qualifier will be he'll fire anybody convicted of a crime in the leak who he has no intention of pardoning.

[SpiralHawk]

34. Frikken Flip Flopper - That's Bush

Always has been, always will, flip the flop.

[ObaMania]

94. Flippity - floppity n/t

[adarling]

41. exactly

we need to get huge signs and protest his ass outside the white house chanting flip flopper!!!!!!!!! wouldn't it just be grand???hahah

[kestrel91316]

81. You got it there!

[deutsey]

7. He "appears" to. Mm hmm.

[Bumblebee]

8. CNN does not mention ANY shift at all

they just headline it as

Bush vows to fire anyone who committed crime in CIA leak

and behave in the rest of the article as if that's what Bush said all along

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/18/cia.leak/index.html

[Midnight Rambler]

23. On TV, they just said it was a reversal of his previous position

Just a few minutes ago, if it's possible to track down that video

[Bumblebee]

25. Hope they correct it on their web site!

[usregimechange]

9. As I noted earlier.

10. cheats

It seems white collar crime is much easier to get away with then your garden variety theft, etc. But they are still trying to break the law, and get away with it. What role models for criminals everywhere. And why does that reporter Cooper sound like he doesn't have to know anything about legalities when he gets involved in white house intrigue? He says things like "Was that a crime - I don't know?". Lots of brain power, but where is the common sense? :nopity:

[dbt]

14. Hello, annces8! Welcome to The DU!

:hi:

[sendero]

11. This 'firing' stuff is nonsense..

.... who gives a shit? Even if Rove is fired, he will still be working with the president - little will change other than his physical location.

Rove losing his job would be meaningless. Now seeing him doing interviews from behind bars, that would be priceless.

[caledesi]

38. Agree. Rove goes back to Texas and the minute he arrives,

* is the phone with him.

[rateyes]

12. So, does that mean that..

Bush has just resigned?

[Orion The Hunter]

15. Tell you what...

They can make this distinction so long as some of these jokers wind up in prison (where they belong).

[Jacobin]

13. A subtle as a train wreck is what it is

Two years ago, before they thought they would get caught, he was all blustery and smirky, handing down edicts about firing whoever was involved, knowing that Rove, Libbey and Cheney were in it up to their eyeballs and thinking they would never get caught.

Now that it looks like Rove, et al are going to get caught, he wants CONVICTIONS, which of course won't be final until after a trial and after APPEALS, which means 2009.

What a corrupt mofo this entire administration is.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. B** is a FFF - Fuckin Flip Flopper. Sure, McClellan wants to tell

the press "not to read anymore into it". He flipped flopped, plain and simple. Hope this is the only news on Rover today - the press will make a field day out of this.

[seafan]

17. * was FOR firing the leaker before he was AGAINST it....

This vice is getting perceptibly tighter.

[fob]

27. Nice. Way to stick the landing with that one!

:toast:

[seafan]

29. Back atcha! Use their own words against them. This one's for Kerry.

Corruption like this is just beyond my imagination.

[ClintonTyree]

33. Perfect way to frame the "flip flop".........

good one, very good. Here's to 'ya! :toast:

[seafan]

57. Thanks! Let's go get 'em. n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

18. Uh huh

If they're convicted they can no longer work for you. They'll be in prison.

Pretty high ethical standards don't you think?

:sarcasm:

[IChing]

20. Bush next says "He'll fire anyone who spends time in jail for the leak"

So after conviction, is jail,
so I think that is the next notch up on the shift.

If they're not in jail they can still serve.

Then the next step is "done time for the leak"

[Imalittleteapot]

44. I was about to post the same comment.

[DirtyDawg]

21. Let 'em squirm...

...I don't want anybody fired over all this...I want every one of their sorry asses on the job and stinkin' out the place for as long as possible. Change the story...obfuscate...lie...distort...do it all. Cause it's gonna have to get a whole lot worse before it'll get better. The 40% that keeps giving these people the benefit of the doubt - or basically believes in every lie they're telling - won't change until they're too embarrassed to do anything else. I believe that more and more will find something in bushco's vileness to let them admit that enoughs enough...it's just gonna have to take a little more time. Until next year's elections and the hope that the demos will have taken at least one, if not both, house(s) of Congress. Then we might see some real broken field running - like impeachment proceedings, for example.

Remember, 'Just Say No to Republicans'...and while I'm at it, when did the 'style guide' come out with the 'toe the line' reference to the Democratic Party as the 'Democrat Party'? Noted it again yesterday when that slime ball Mehlman used it a couple of times. Why not an official reference to the other side as the 'Republic Party' - although they'd probably like that. No, I think I'll just stick with Repig Party and leave it be.

[rateyes]

24. I'll tell you this...

if Bush doesn't nominate to SCOTUS someone who says that they will definitely overturn Roe V. Wade---the whole damn Religious Right Wingnut of the party will revolt---and, we'll have them accusing him of a crime, too. God, I hope he actually selects a "consensus" candidate.

[Contrary1]

22. Every chance they get,

this administration laughs at all of us. "Us" meaning not just
Democrats and Liberals, but all of America.


And right back at you Dubya.

[Beetwasher]

26. Umm, WHAT PLANET AM I ON??????????????

The media is calling Bush on his bullshit???? Whuh happned???? :shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

28. He**'ll fire any criminal...who's left-handed...and wears argyle socks...

...and listens to light jazz... who's connected to the leak...

:rofl:

NGU.

[skip fox]

30. It tells us that W. suspects Rove may be indicted!

:toast:

Proof that Rove may be indicted on several charges:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x140550

[ktowntennesseedem]

77. It tells ME that they think they will get out of this...

by sticking to the "no one broke any law" defense. I disagree with them; I think Rove is eventually going down, it only remains to be seen when and for what. As was said about the Watergate scandal, the cover-up is worse than the crime. Even if he doesn't get busted for breaking any law regarding a covert being outed, he will go down for lying and obstructing justice. And at this point I don't care, I just want Rove to go down and drag as many of the Shrub administration with him as possible.

[ClintonTyree]

31. Old, "I say what I mean, and mean what I say", bush strikes again

Just like his ever changing reasons for invading Iraq, he now changes his qualifiers for firing treasonous aides who leak CIA agents names to the world.

If there's one thing we've found out during bush's presidency, it's that HIS WORD MEANS NOTHING! "Mr. Morals", "Mr. Steadfast", "Mr. Return Honor to the White House", is nothing more than a lying snake that cares more about harboring and protecting a treasonous member of his administration than he cares about the protection of The United States of America!

Impeachment would be too good for this entire administration. Prison with no hope of parole should be the punishment for what these criminals have done to our Country. :grr:

Mr. bush (I won't capitalize that name) you are a liar and a fraud. Resign before the American people DO find a way to put your smarmy ass in jail alongside the rest of your toadies.

[wallwriter]

32. The Real Question: Are they getting optimistic, or is this

the result of some panicked polling/focus grouping??

[confludemocrat]

35. CNN says the 25% who are against firing Rove is a "solid 25%"

Reasonable, measured rhetoric other than calling him a fucking filthy dirty bastard liar crazy motherfucker is passé or should be. We are so far beyond anything that can be couched in moderate language.

[wallwriter]

36. "Solid 25%?? What a fucking joke!!"

What about the solid 48% (or was it 51%) who voted for Kerry!?!?!

[msongs]

37. so which democrats are calling bush on his massive flip flop???

let's see if any dem does that.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[hvn_nbr_2]

52. Henry Waxman

See this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4130447

But we can usually count on him. I want to see some of the appeaser-winp wing growing some spines and balls.

[hvn_nbr_2]

54. Howard Dean too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1636720

[MISSDem]

39. And depending on how the law is read

and who reads it, it may be determined that "no crime was committed". So even though Rove did it he won't be guilty of a crime.

[Check12]

40. Here is a talking point. for dems

President George Bush was for firing leakers, before he was against it.

[Catchawave]

42. Good One !

And welcome to DU Check12 :hi:

[hvn_nbr_2]

49. Love it. n/t

[bvar22]

43. Flippppp.....Flopppppppp

[Gay Green]

79. No, more like

FLIPP!!! FLOPP!!!

[confludemocrat]

45. In a just world, headline: "Can the bastard be any more brazen?",Dems ask

And still get away with it? People we are truly in uncharted waters. A bald-faced liar not even hiding his crookedness, with the press as willing executioners of his methods.

[stevedeshazer]

46. "Subtle" my shiny metal ass. LIAR is what applies.

Double-standard, stonewall, flip-flop and so on aren't good enough.

This proves that the President is a LIAR.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

50. The Meme (Frame) is: Bush Failed to Fire Rove

The Meme (Frame) is: Bush Failed to Fire Rove.

This is not a subtle shift from Bush. It is craven backpedaling and failure to lead.

[deadparrot]

51. God, could Smirky look any more arrogant in that pic in the OP?

Just looking at it spikes my BP.

[wabranty]

53. We are firm in our shifting standards

So I stopped by the desk of the office conservative and asked him what Junkie Limbaugh had to say about the shift in W's criteria for firing traitors who give aid and comfort to our enemies by exposing our intelligence agents. And he looked down at his desk and mumbled something about how Democrats don't respect due process and that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Well then, if the Conservatives are following the Constitution this week, will they follow Article Three in which it only takes two witnesses to confirm the act of treason? And since treason is punishable by death, shouldn't Rove be executed? I then showed him the relevant section of the U.S. Code:

"TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

The office conservative got so mad he stalked out of the office and hasn't been seen all day. Bummer. I was going to ask him what should happen to Cheney's chief of staff who also leaked Plame's name.



:rofl: :yoiks: :kick:

[aggiesal]

86. wabranty, you're my hero!

Keep it up.

[Rainscents]

55. Liar, Liar, Liar and pant on fire!

Major FLIP-FLOPPER baster!!! In the photo, Bush looks like he had just done the road killed.

[gristy]

56. That is SO not a subtle shift

Very obvious to me when I first saw that language today.

[Sparkly]

58. Somebody in the press should ask him if that's a "MORAL" position.

Did his great FAITH lead him to this new stand?

Did GOD tell him it's okay unless certain laws applied?

Is this one of the Republican VALUES?

Is it "in step with the MAINSTREAM" not to fire people who screw up?

Does it "support the TROOPS" to endanger CIA operations, breach national security and leak classified information?

What message does it send to the TERRORISTS when our national security is compromised with no consequence?

Come on, press corps, use all their favorite keywords!!

[gristy]

59. Bingo!

That sounds like material Jon Stewart could draw from.

[Dave Reynolds]

60. A "subtle shift" from someone

who "doesn't do nuance".

Spin spin spin spin spin spin.

[sickem]

62. As much as I'd like to see Rove, Libby, and Cheney

fired, I think I'd rather see them still hanging around as liabilities for the GOP in next years elections. It is going to be hard enough for Republicans to keep their majorities in Congress with Bush's failed war in Iraq and his bone headed domestic initiatives but I'd still like to see the extra insurance of having these traitors in the White House because the "security President" refused to get rid of them. That's going to be tough to defend. It will make a joke of Republican candidates all across the country.

I think the most important thing right now is to change the balance in the House and Senate next year. Then we may have a real chance at not only impeachment but war crimes tribunals for these criminals.

If the shrub wants to help us out a bit with his stubborn loyalty to people he should be dropping like hot potatoes I'm not going to complain.

[TankLV]

61. Fire anybody who commits a crime who gets caught & to take the heat off me

[Catchawave]

63. Reminder: Watch Olbermann tonight, 8pm EST

and re-air at midnight.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

64. Have you all seen Scotty's Monday Afternoon Rope-A-Dope...

I Like this exchange..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050718-2.html
Go ahead.
(on edit: Question was by Helen Thomas)
Q What is his problem? Two years, and he can't call Rove in and find out what the hell is going on? I mean, why is it so difficult to find out the facts? It costs thousands, millions of dollars, two years, it tied up how many lawyers? All he's got to do is call him in.

MR. McCLELLAN: You just heard from the President. He said he doesn't know all the facts. I don't know all the facts.

Q Why?

MR. McCLELLAN: We want to know what the facts are. Because --

Q Why doesn't he ask him?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'll tell you why, because there's an investigation that is continuing at this point, and the appropriate people to handle these issues are the ones who are overseeing that investigation. There is a special prosecutor that has been appointed. And it's important that we let all the facts come out. And then at that point, we'll be glad to talk about it, but we shouldn't be getting into --

Q You talked about it to reporters.

MR. McCLELLAN: We shouldn't be getting into prejudging the outcome.

Go ahead.

Q Scott, we don't know all the facts, but we know some of the facts. For example, Matt Cooper says he did speak to Karl Rove and Lewis Libby about these issues. So given the fact that you have previously stood at that podium and said these men did not discuss Valerie Plame or a CIA agent's identity in any way, does the White House have a credibility problem?

MR. McCLELLAN: No. You just answered your own question. You said we don't know all the facts. And I would encourage everyone not to prejudge the outcome of the investigation.

Q But on the specifics -- on the specifics, you made statements that have proven to be untrue.

[chomskysright]

71. DANCE, Scotty, DANCE

[Thor_MN]

76. I'd pay to see someone ask this:

Scott, given the facts known, there are only two possibilities. Karl and Scooter lied to you, or you lied to us. Which is it?

[deacon]

65. Major League Flip FLOP-- nothing subtle about this at all n/t

[dissent1977]

66. This headline should not be on the home page

I think most people on this site are in agreement that there is nothing "subtle" about this shift. It is a blantantly obvious move to ensure that someone who commited treason is able to retain his security clearance. If we call it a subtle shift it is almost as if we are buying into the GOP talking points. If it is not too late for the original poster to change the title they should do so, if not the mods should do it.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

67. The headline is about the MSNBC graphic.

I'm the original poster.

The headline is about MSNBC giving Bush a free pass by using the words "subtle shift."

"We" are not saying that Bush made a subtle shift.

MSNBC is.

It's the entire point of the article. It's why I posted it. It's why people responded to it. It's why it went on the front page.

[dissent1977]

68. I understand why you did it, and I am not criticizing you personally...

I just think that if curious onlookers go on this site and see at the top of the page that there is a "subtle" shift they may get the wrong impression. If you were to put the word "substantial" in parentheses right next to the word "subtle" it would more accurately reflect reality.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

69. I respect your opinion, and the answer is no.

No disrespect intended. I posted my reasons, which I'm not obligated to do, and I think editing the post would be a mistake.

[jurassicpork]

90. I don't get the impression...

...that bush_eats_beef has confused anyone with the header. We liberals tend to have reading capabilities that somehow aspire to something a bit higher than "My Pet Goat." That's why Republicans have damned us forever with the sobriquet "intellectuals."

Now conservatives, OTOH, would've jumped all that without actually parsing the message.

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com/

[yojon]

70. Simple Scotty Says

"The President holds his staff to the highest ethical standards"

Simple Scotty Means:

They must not be in prison.

[despairing optimist]

73. A man who falls off a Segway is capable of subtlety? Is that what you're

telling me?

After five years of this, I'm getting sick of seeing all those trogs with their hands dragging the ground dragging the government down to their level. Forget the polite words. "Subtle" doesn't belong in the same brain synapse with such lowlifes.

[Hardknock]

74. please.....

What a fucking crock!!

And they called Kerry a flip-flop!

[Pryderi]

75. Here's the transcript of the interview, if you want a specific reference

Q Given – given recent developments in the CIA leak case, particularly Vice President Cheney's discussions with the investigators, do you still stand by what you said several months ago, a suggestion that it might be difficult to identify anybody who leaked the agent's name?

THE PRESIDENT: That's up to –

Q And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. Attorney to find the facts. "


http://www.g8.utoronto.ca/summit/2004seaisland/bush040610.html

[Gay Green]

78. That's it I am sick of this Repugnican shit.

The whole of the Greedy Oil Plutocrats' party is servilely obedient to the pRetzeldent's BRAIN and completely, utterly, and TOTALLY morally, spiritually, financially, Constitutionally, and ACTUALLY treasonous to the We the American People!

:rant:

[WMliberal]

82. well, it'd be hard to do their job from prison...

ethics, shmethics. as long as they can't prove the law was broken, it's a.o.k. :banghead:

[kestrel91316]

83. I think we need a new bumper sticker:

"JUST SAY NO TO TREASON
VOTE DEMOCRAT"



:headbang:

[Disturbed]

84. Headline: Bush Refuses To Fire Rove and Libby.

Even though it has been proven beyond doubt that these two have, at the very least been unethical in their actions, the Pres. refuses to fire them.

It has been proven that Rove, at the very least lied to the FBI. That is a felony. The Pres. has no choice. Rove must be fired, now.

[geckosfeet]

87. not so subtle ass sucking by MSM. Oh,,, sorry. nt

[jurassicpork]

88. Summer of Rove

I was wondering if anyone else had picked up on this. When I read just the headline on yahoonews before I'd even read the article, I knew exactly what Georgie was up to. Republicans are nothing if not word gamesmen.

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com/

[PurpleChez]

89. No matter where this goes from here...

these lying, murderous scumbags have been revealed for what they are. The Golden Retard is always gonna have his name on the list with Lincoln and FDR simply because he was (by whatever means) President, but his claims to legitimacy and morality will never truely be taken seriously, except by the fundie wackjobs who still think he has breakfast with Jesus every morning. Can you tell that I despise this man?

[jurassicpork]

91. No, Purple

...tell us what you *really* think of George Bush.

Welcome to DU, btw.

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com/

[jurassicpork]

92. Send Turd Blossom an email.

Like George Bush, show him your conditional support by sending him an email at [e-mail].

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

[caligirl]

93. Weakens Bush, country see's him defending a liar and a guy

who would go after his best friends wife if it helped him.

Bush made another wrong move hoping that Miller won't talk.

[muchacho]

95. I didn't mean what I said then

but I mean what I say now....

idiots..

[Roland99]

96. NBC's Today Show and ABC's Good Morning America BOTH covered this

and pointed out the shift in policy.

Even my local news made similar comments!

[Paradise]

97. caught a clip of * saying it, and it hit me right between the eyes... n/t