Rove was not part of the administration when he leaked Plame's name

[LittleClarkie]

What was Rove's position at the time? Someone mentioned this point on Ed Schultz today, and I thought it was interesting to be reminded of this. But I can't remember now what Rove's official title was at the time.

It wouldn't have had clearance, I bet.

I also thought MTP was decent yesterday in talking to the RNC Chairman as he tried to say Rove had been cleared. Even repeating classified information is illegal, so it doesn't matter if the original leak came from Rove, as he helped spread it. Finally Tim plays gotcha with a Republican for a change. Good on ya, Russert.

[JuniperLea]

1. doesn't really matter what his title was at the time

what matters is the date on his executed non-disclosure agreement.

[LittleClarkie]

3. Do we have that date

or is that something that will come out with the GJ?

[JuniperLea]

36. welllll.... all i could find is...

this from whitehouse.gov


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050208-13.html

he was named "Assistant to the President, Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor" on 2/8/05, but the article goes on to say " Since 2001, Mr. Rove has served as Senior Advisor to the President, overseeing strategic planning, political affairs, public liaison, and intergovernmental affairs at the White House."

so, he must have had a security clearance since 2001, which means he had to have signed a non-disclosure statement. i wonder when in 2001, before or after 9/11.

[Inland]

2. He had some WH post

communications, hill liaison, something. He was down the hall from W.

[xray s]

4. I think he was just Chief Political Advisor

Its hard to put "The hand up Bush's butt that makes his lips move while we tell him what to say in his ear guy" on a resume.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Let alone

a business card.

Ventriloquist perhaps?

[LSparkle]

6. Wasn't he just "Special Counsel" or something?

Mehlman's appearance on MTP absolutely bombed -- so he's getting time on the NewsHour tonight to do damage control. Here's hoping he falls flat on his horseface for a second time in one week.

[liberalfriend]

12. has Mehlman ever NOT bombed?

He's done a lot of talkies and he doesn't have a good demure during any interview I see? Maybe I missed one where he knocked it out of the park?

[ComerPerro]

26. Like all GOP talking heads

he's a freak, and a pathetic "debater".

The only reason he even seems to have any credibility is because the press fawns over him.

[welshTerrier2]

7. awkward wording in subject ?

hi LC ...

just a suggestion to change the wording of the subject in the BP ...

it could be read as:
1. Rove helped out her (which is what you meant) OR that
2. Rove helped her out (which is not what you meant)

hope this helps you out ;)

[LittleClarkie]

9. Thanks!

Is that better?

[welshTerrier2]

11. clearer and sharper ... well done !!

DU has been way too focussed on whether Plame was still "covert" when she was outed ... maybe that's important for determining the specific crime committed ...

but the much more important point was the intimidation this caused in the CIA among those who knew the WH was "fixing the facts around the policy" ... if our intelligence agencies are not free to speak the truth, and they were NOT, we have a far more serious problem than the "outing" of a single agent or even the devastation that was caused to a specific operation ...

the crime here was the raw intimidation of those who disagreed (whether they were covert or overt) and the lies it enabled that led to war ...

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Rove was and is a high level White House official

and since the selection in 2000 has been on the WH payroll. He even took an oath on the first day of the job, which I am sure he has violated in numerous ways.

Also, Rove and anyone else in this misadministration can be impeached, and if you've been impeached the president can't pardon you. We need to go for the brass ring.

[Toots]

15. Rove's Official Title was Political Advisor and I heard somewhere that he

did not have Security Clearance. That certainly could be wrong but I heard it on some talk show.

[Zen Democrat]

10. He was Advisor to the President before promotion.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Do advisors have security clearance?

and are they able to see "classified information"?

I think that's the point, Non?

[Garbo 2004]

16. There are different levels of security clearances. So it depends on the

nature of the job what access to various levels of classified info a person would have. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

[Dr Fate]

14. Bush was his BOSS at the time. Period.

Why split hairs? Is anyone REALLY going to deny that Rove was not "working for" Bush?

[slackmaster]

17. Rove has to be one of the slipperiest dicks of all time

Not in the good way.

[mandomom]

18. That's even worse.

Rove was promoted by Bush to one of the most senior POLICY positions in the US after he was known (by Bush, I'm sure) to have leaked the info, and probably orchestrated the wide-flung messaging against Wilson. Such pretty petty boys.

When is the last time YOU were promoted at work or even in a social organization AFTER your boss learned of your indiscretions? If it actually happened, the next question is whether that's an oranization any right thinking citizen would want to join.

I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that accepted Rove. Let's see: RNC, GOP, WH, Federalist Society,

[rasputin1952]

19. Goes back to the "Screw up, move up" scheme of things...

it was/is prevalent in the military and corporate arenas. One might screw up, but the results are viewed as positive, so you move up a notch or two.

In bushworld, screwing up is a requisite for credit/promotion. Look at the 'boss', there is nothing positive in his resume, nothing. He has the touch of death for virtually anything he gets involved with. This guy is used to failure, what he is not used to, is being called on it. Throughout bush's life, there have been a 'friends' who come forward to bail him out. Very few people are so well covered. I know of no one else, on a personal level, that has such a valuable resource.

bush and his cronies speak out about 'personal responsibility', but they have never shown any themselves. They believe themselves to be part of a 'ruling class', much the same as 'Old Europe' or India. There are workers, (serfs/untouchables), and various classes above them. These people are sound wound up with believing that they are so much more valuable than others, they perceive they can do no wrong; and when something bombs out, it is someone else's fault.

Look at Rumsfeld, 'roses in the streets'? I can think of very few times in the past where an invading army was greeted with 'roses in the streets'. Invading a sovereign nation w/o a distinct reason that justifies said invasion, most assuredly, will result in an underground that will become more sophisticated over time. Just 60+ years ago, the invading Germans had to deal w/the French Resistance, the Dutch Underground, the Soviet Underground, the Polish Freedom Fighters, etc. The Japanese had to deal with Filipino Guerrillas, Indonesian headhunters, Chinese Maoists, etc. None of these groups were ever eradicated, (fortunately), yet bush and his minions felt that they could somehow overpower this basic force...:shrug:

This administration is incapable of learning, either from the recent past, or further down in history. They will hang out to dry, simply because their own hubris will drag them through the carnage they have
begun.

The 'Legacy of bush', is a legacy of failure. always has been, always will be.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. very nice.

I agree with everything you said, especially...

"None of these groups were ever eradicated, (fortunately), yet bush and his minions felt that they could somehow overpower this basic force"

"their own hubris will drag them through the carnage they have
begun. "

"The 'Legacy of bush', is a legacy of failure. always has been, always will be."



thanks :)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. He held the positon of Senior Advisor to the President.

That was his official title after the 2000 elections, if I'm not mistaken.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

21. From whitehouse.gov

Since 2001, Mr. Rove has served as Senior Advisor to the President, overseeing strategic planning, political affairs, public liaison, and intergovernmental affairs at the White House.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050208-13.html

[JaneQPublic]

23. Yeah, and Clinton was not President when Whitewater allegedly occurred.

So, what's the dif?

With regard to whether Rove had a security clearance at the time: Even Civil Servants and government contractors must have clearances if they receive access to information sensitive to the national security. If he didn't have a clearance, he sure as hell should have!

[rocktivity]

24. I've raised this question a couple of times

Rove did not become an official member of the Bush Cabinet until this February--before then he was basically an advisor. Even if he did qualifed the right kind of security clearance, why would an advisor need to know who was and was not a CIA operative? Is that why he's come up with this ridiculous story that a member of the press leaked Plame to HIM?

:headbang:
rocknation

[Garbo 2004]

28. Rove not a member of the Cabinet. Is & was a WH/Administration official.

From Senior Advisor he was promoted to Deputy Chief of Staff. White House Chief of Staff Andy Card has Cabinet rank status. Not Rove.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html

[rasputin1952]

25. One of the basic items of being in government, regardless of whether

one has a 'clearance' or not, is that you use discretion in your dealings with people outside of the 'loop'.

One need not possess a Top Secret clearance to understand that confidentiality is a necessity when dealing with the Press, or anyone else in matters of security. What Rove did, was breech the basic tenet of confidentiality, he spoke w/o thought to the ramifications of his actions. Personally, I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that Rove knew nothing about Plame's CIA work, and it certainly made little difference whether she 'was under cover' at the time or not; this idiot didn't care if she would be working cover in the future, and assured that she never would in the future.

In the Army, I held a Top Secret Clearance. The thought never entered my mind to discuss things I knew w/others that did not have the need to know. In fact, today I would not discuss classified material I learned about 30 years ago; those I deal with today, have no need to know what I learned and how I got the info, it is that simple.

Rove, like the rest of the administration, have no ethical guidelines to go by. Their loyalty lies with bush, not with the nation as a whole. These creatures do not think of the United States as anything but a way to gain wealth for themselves. These creatures do not have any concept of the nation as a whole, they are corporate fiends that see the nation not as living beings concerned with the problems of every day survival, but rather as a corporation, devoid of any rules or ethics that guide a society. "Rules are for suckers", seems to be their common call.

Any time an official thinks the law, or society's ethics/morality does not apply to them, they feel that the can do whatever they want with impunity. The secrecy with which this administration has worked within should have sent off alarm bells all across the nation, instead, the nation allowed this administration to wield power w/o any form of checks.

Rove did what he did for political payback to a perceived enemy. Not an enemy of the nation, nor as someone who was peddling lies to to undermine the case for war in Iraq. This was a situation that was based on affront to bush, not on national security or terrorism. He did what he did out of spite for a man who was sent on a mission to find the truth, did so, and presented the report as requested. The report did not dovetail the administration's rationale for war, so it was discredited. When Wilson came forward w/the truth, he had to be silenced. Rove dismissed his responsibility as an American citizen, much less a member of a sitting administration, and took a cowards way out by implicating that Plame was an agent. For this alone, regardless of 'legality' he should be held accountable as would any other citizen.

[kentuck]

27. Was Rove given official Cabinet status position after testimony...?

to the Grand Jury? It would indicate perhaps a desire to protect him if matters got worse. Bush is up to his eyeballs in this crap...

[Garbo 2004]

29. Rove isn't a member of the Cabinet. See my post above. n/t

[kentuck]

33. He was appointed to a different position ?

Some Deputy Chief of Communications or something? So his status did not change?

[Garbo 2004]

35. Promoted to Dep WH Chief of Staff, not a Cabinet rank position. n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

30. Who signed Rove's paycheck?

Clearly, he was a federal government employee at the very least. And in being so, there are oaths that he swears to and documents he must sign concerning confidential matters.

This smells like a set-up for a Bart Simpson defense! :grr:

[mmonk]

31. Wasn't he part of the White House Iraq Group?

[Garbo 2004]

32. Yes, apparently he was a member of the WHIG:

The escalation of nuclear rhetoric a year ago, including the introduction of the term "mushroom cloud" into the debate, coincided with the formation of a White House Iraq Group, or WHIG, a task force assigned to "educate the public" about the threat from Hussein, as a participant put it.

Systematic coordination began in August, when Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card, Jr. formed the White House Iraq Group, or WHIG, to set strategy for each stage of the confrontation with Baghdad. A senior official who participated in its work called it "an internal working group, like many formed for priority issues, to make sure each part of the White House was fulfilling its responsibilities."

The group met weekly in the Situation Room. Among the regular participants were Karl Rove, the president's senior political adviser; communications strategists Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin and James R. Wilkinson; legislative liaison Nicholas E. Calio; and policy advisers led by Rice and her deputy, Stephen J. Hadley, along with I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff.

From http://www.sourcewatch.org/wiki.phtml?title=White_House_Iraq_Group

[skip fox]

34. WHIG was where (perhaps emergency meeting) the plot was hatched.

The more we know, the more it seems that there will be multiple indictments for "high administration officials" in Fitzgerald's final report including at least two for Rove.

I say this because in learning about multiple leakers for the six reported contacts and multiple confirming sources, it becomes apparent what occurred. One administrative official discovered the Plame-Wilson-Niger relationship, took it to the White House Iraq Group, turned it over to Rove, who on the spot assigned tasks to different primary leakers/sources assuring no source called another source's contact (so as not to appear too eager), that no source's "pitch" was exactly the same but that their information was all given in an "off hand" manner (e.g., "Don't go too far out on this Wilson thing, I don't want you burnt").

Simply "doing the numbers" has told me this all along, but as new information comes out my analysis is being confirmed. We knew there were at least 6 initial leaks/contacts. Now we know that there were at least three different initial leakers (Fleicher Rove, Libby) and of the 6 reporters 4 are confirmed as Miller, Novak, Cooper, and Pincus. We also realize that there must have been a number of other confirming sources (because you cannot assure who the reporter will call for confirmation).

A master-mind would have been necessary to coordinate all these calls by different people AND would have to insure that a number of other officials were ready and willing to confirm the initial leaks.

They would have gone to Rove immediately and he, probably in an emergency of the White House Iraq Group, assigned the roles, the stories and the stances, etc.

So he not only leaked by was the mastermind of a conspiracy to leak.

We can only hope he lead a cover-up and committed perjury as well.