Holy shit! WSJ report just sank Rove's battleship!

[geek tragedy]

Don't have an online link (they charge a fortune, but from today's Wall Street Journal:

<snip>Memo Underscored Issue of Shielding Plame's Identity By ANNE MARIE SQUEO and JOHN D. MCKINNON Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL July 19, 2005; Page A3

A classified State Department memo that may be pivotal to the CIA leak case made clear that information identifying an agent and her role in her husband's intelligence-gathering mission was sensitive and shouldn't be shared, according to a person familiar with the document.
<snip>

:spank:

UPDATE: See post # 11 below for more details! (Thx Still One)

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Sank his ship if they can tie the memo to him as either the author or

a recipient.

[geek tragedy]

7. It means that there was a conspiracy in the administration to leak that

information, which they KNEW was classified and shouldn't be leaked.

Does anyone really believe that Karl Rove learned about Plame from a damn journalist when he was in the same goddamn airplane as that memo?!?!?!!?

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. I don't believe he learned it from Novak.. but we have to prove

who authorized the leak. Or at least Fitz does.

[dooner]

68. (just a detail) Rove wasn't on the plane with the loose memo

Apparently he was "on vacation".

[geek tragedy]

76. Yeah, someone pointed that out. Still hard to believe that Bush's #1

advisor would find stuff like this out from journalists instead of the folks in the Vice Presidents' office.

[fob]

2. Who leaked THAT!?!

nt

[soothsayer]

3. refers to Cooper saying Rove said "I've said too much"?

[geek tragedy]

9. My guess is Colin Powell or even Condi Rice. eom

[maddezmom]

23. I think it's Powell and if true it could vindicate him

looks like he wanted to make sure she wasn't outted?

[Clark2008]

27. I think a Powell vs. Bushco showdown would be as fun to

watch as it would be helpful in dragging down the Republican powership.

You'd have the paelos siding behind Powell (who won't run for president) and the neo-theo-cons siding behind BushCo.

The result would be a free-for-all that would make me drag out the popcorn and sweep the Dems into office in 2006 over the fractured Republican Party.

My saying for the day seems to be: "Bring it on!"

:popcorn:

[wallwriter]

56. I'd like to think Powell is untarnished by this...

I think that he has an awful tendency to cave in at important moments, but he was the one internationalsit high up in the admin, and they screwed him for it. Plus, I think most of America still really admires Powell. The repukes are not above trashing him, but, especially with him out of office and not running for Pres., there is little to be gained from it.

Does make you wonder how long before Novakula, Rove, et al start attacking him...

[Garbo 2004]

Somebody leaked that Powell had the rept on AF!1 to africa and recall

that Novak has claimed his source was "non partisan" and people would be surprised. Now...it may be just me, but I suspect a little cover game between Rove and Novak to try to divert attention from Rove and turn public suspicion Powell's way.

So...when the articles recently came out again about the State Dept report Powell had on board Air Force 1, someone else ("a former administration official") told a reporter that oh by the way good old Ari had been seen looking at the report on AF1. Wonder if that former official was Powell tossing the ball back to the White House gang? If so, nicely done.

[tblue37]

99. Please stop with the admiring Powell meme.

He was the architect of the My Lai cover-up. Everything he has done has been for the purpose of furthering his own career. He allowed these evil bastards to use his (undeserved) popularity to further their plans. It doesn't matter that he was "more internationalist" in his leanigns than they--he still backed them up and refused to do the right thing when it might have mattered.

His son Micahel learned his opportunism and amorality at his father's knees. The two of them together have done enormous damage to our country.

There is nothing to admire about Powell. In some ways I think he is worse than Bush, because Powell probably understands the long-term consequences of the evil he does.

[krkaufman]

77. Don't count your chickens...

Even if the Rethugs implode, the Dems are yet to find the message, voice or organization to insure victory. Let us hope...

[krkaufman]

75. Since it came from the State Dept...

Powell was, if not anti-war, at least not fully neo-con gung-ho, so it *would* make sense that the memo was generated at Powell's behest, and would be cautionary relative to WMD and leaking of classified info.

Powell's still damned for not doing enough to stop the war, though.

[xchrom]

4. pleaseohpleaseohplease

:)
if nothing else -- this is causing bushco extreme discomfort.

[Inland]

5. Can Rove and Scooter continue to say "I had no idea she was covert"?

Maybe they'll say, "Nobody takes State seriously about anything."

[TahitiNut]

25. Sure! I'd love to see them found guilty of perjury on top of other crimes

They've already left a trail of "false or misleading testimony" so let's see how many counts of perjury they can be convicted of.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

36. The best part...

Is that we can wrest the flag away from the Republican Party. We can brand them the party of traitors well into the next generation. We can point out that Republican use the flag as a cover for their treasonous activities.

[Zorbuddha]

49. That puts a manageably fine point on it.

Well stated. It would be good to see that paragraph in a LTTE of the NYT or WaPo. Who could refute it with anything substantial?

You seem to have the gift of rant, I look forward to more.

Rave on!

[central scrutinizer]

60. very cavalier attitude about classified documents

When that sycophant Woodward was writing his hagiography, "Bush at War" he was handed all kinds of classified documents and I doubt he has the clearance needed. Of course, those were cherrypicked classified documents that would show how great a leader Bushco was. Then there were the smear campaigns against Diulio and O'Neill when they left the maladministration and started talking. I believe classified documents and even FBI files were utiilized then.

[LizW]

6. Yikes. All the more reason they'll try to pin this on

Ari Fleischer or Colin Powell, the two who are already out of the administration.

[napi21]

12. Powell would probably let it go and just keep going, Ari won't!

For a General, Powell always seemed to me to be such a whimp! Ari didn't, and I think he would fight back, unless...it really WAS him! He was Shrub's Press Secretary at the time of these leaks, and he decided to "spend more time with his family", right after the Novak article!

[ncteechur]

52. I don't think it was Powell. He's too straght. I don't think he...

would have done it even at Rove or Bush's request. He knows the ramifications of leaking classified documents--he's been a real player in the business too long. For Bush and Rove, they have no sense of what is right and wrong and would certainly sell out American security to win. They don't give a damn about the US only about winning and money. Powell, although he was used as a pawn, would not have done this.

[LeftNYC]

8. WSJ is respectable, except for the editorial page nonsense

Lets see how their wingnut editorial page handles this. Something to the effect that Rove never saw the memo...

[geek tragedy]

10. Despite riding in a plane where it was being passed around. eom

[nannah]

20. karl wasn't on the plane

he was on vacation and did not accompany the bush entourage to africa.

[geek tragedy]

29. How covenient. I'm sure he never asked anyone in the Bush administration

about Plame and Wilson. Never heard of Joe Wilson's wife before a journalist told him.

Yep, that's the ticket.

[maddezmom]

83. he sure talked about the Plame affair a lot on his vaca

~snip~

In addition, on July 8, 2003, the day after the memo was sent, Novak discussed Wilson and his wife with Rove, who had remained in Washington, according to the New York Times.

~snip~

Three days after that, on July 11, Rove also discussed Wilson and his wife with Time Magazine reporter Matthew Cooper, Cooper said yesterday. Rove told the reporter that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and had a hand in having Wilson sent to Niger in 2002 to check out reports that Saddam Hussein was trying to buy uranium for a nuclear weapons program, Cooper said during an appearance on NBC's ``Meet the Press'' program.

~snip~


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=awaBbp4fMlgg

[maddezmom]

84. even had time to email Hadley about his converstion with Cooper

Although supposedly in a rush to leave on vacation, Rove e-mailed Stephen J. Hadley, then Bush�s deputy national security adviser (and now national security adviser). According to the Associated Press, Rove�s e-mail said he �didn�t take the bait� when Cooper suggested that Wilson�s criticisms had hurt the administration.

While it�s not entirely clear what Rove meant in the e-mail, the significance is that Rove immediately reported to Hadley, an official who was in a position to know classified details about Plame�s job. In other words, the e-mail is evidence that the assault on Wilson was being coordinated at senior White House levels.

Cooper also told the grand jury that his second source on the allegations about the Niger trip and Wilson�s wife was Vice President Dick Cheney�s chief of staff, Lewis �Scooter� Libby, a leading neoconservative advocate for invading Iraq. According to Cooper,

more:http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/071805.html

[maddezmom]

89. Rove emailed Hadley on July 11th

The July 11, 2003, e-mail between Rove and then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley is the first showing an intelligence official knew Rove had talked to Matthew Cooper just days before the Time magazine reporter wrote an article identifying Valerie Plame as a CIA officer.

"I didn't take the bait," Rove wrote in an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press, recounting how Cooper tried to question him about whether President Bush had been hurt by the new allegations.

The White House turned the e-mail over to prosecutors, and Rove testified to a grand jury about it last year.

Earlier in the week before the e-mail, Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, had written a newspaper opinion piece accusing the Bush administration of twisting prewar intelligence, including a "highly doubtful" report that Iraq bought nuclear materials from Niger.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/politics/0507/19/polit-249694.htm

[Dhalgren]

15. If this is true and real then it is becoming too hard to keep up

the pretenses. Even RW whores have some modicum of "face" to care about and save. How much longer can they continue this ridiculous charade - that Karl, Scooter, (the professor and Mary Ann) didn't know, or didn't actually say, or whatever the latest iteration of this idiocy is?! This is fun to watch, but sickening to live through...

[emulatorloo]

30. JOHN D. MCKINNON - good reporter / JOHN FUND - Ann Coulter wannabe

You can be sure that Fund and the Opinion Page will write whatever Rove faxes over.

[NewJeffCT]

40. agreed - they confirmed the Tora Bora story last year prior to the electio

The story that MSNBC had originally reported about the US calling off their special forces & sending in Afghan mercenaries which then allowed Osama to get away when we had him surrounded...

[still_one]

11. Here's the link, but you need a subscription to the wall street journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112170178721288385,00.html?mod=politics%5Fprimary%5Fhs

...
"
News that the memo was marked for its sensitivity emerged as President Bush yesterday appeared to backtrack from his 2004 pledge to fire any member of his staff involved in the leaking of the CIA agent's name. In a news conference yesterday that followed disclosures that his top strategist, Karl Rove, had discussed Ms. Wilson's CIA employment with two reporters, Mr. Bush adopted a different formulation, specifying criminality as the standard for firing.

"If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration," Mr. Bush said. White House spokesman Scott McClellan later disputed the suggestion that the president had shifted his position.

The memo's details are significant because they will make it harder for officials who saw the document to claim that they didn't realize the identity of the CIA officer was a sensitive matter. Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, may also be looking at whether other crimes -- such as perjury, obstruction of justice or leaking classified information -- were committed
"
...

----------------------

"
On July 6, 2003, former diplomat Joseph Wilson wrote an op-ed piece for the New York Times, disputing administration arguments that Iraq had sought to buy uranium ore from Africa to make nuclear weapons. The following day, President Bush and top cabinet officials left for Africa, and the memo was aboard Air Force One.

The paragraph in the memo discussing Ms. Wilson's involvement in her husband's trip is marked at the beginning with a letter designation in brackets to indicate the information shouldn't be shared, according to the person familiar with the memo. Such a designation would indicate to a reader that the information was sensitive. The memo, though, doesn't specifically describe Ms. Wilson as an undercover agent, the person familiar with the memo said.

Generally, the federal government has three levels of classified information -- top secret, secret and confidential -- all indicating various levels of "damage" to national security if disclosed. There also is an unclassified designation -- indicating information that wouldn't harm national security if shared with the public -- but that wasn't the case for the material on the Wilsons prepared by the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research. It isn't known what level of classification was assigned to the information in the memo.

Who received the memo, which was prepared for Marc Grossman, then the under secretary of state for political affairs, and how widely it was circulated are issues as Mr. Fitzgerald tries to pinpoint the origin of the leak of Ms. Wilson's identity. According to the person familiar with the document, it didn't include a distribution list. It isn't known if President Bush has seen the memo.

Mr. Fitzgerald has subpoenaed the phone logs from Air Force One for the week of the Africa tour, which precedes the revelation of Ms. Wilson's CIA identity in a column by Robert Novak on July 14. In that piece, Mr. Novak identified Valerie Plame, using Ms. Wilson's maiden name, saying that "two senior administration officials" had told him that Ms. Wilson suggested sending her husband to Niger.

Mr. Novak attempted to reach Ari Fleischer, then the White House press secretary, in the days before his column appeared. However, Mr. Fleischer didn't respond to Mr. Novak's inquiries, according to a person familiar with his account. Mr. Fleischer, who has since left the administration, is one of several officials who testified before the grand jury.

In an October 2003 article on the memo, The Wall Street Journal reported that it details a meeting in early 2002 in which CIA officials discussed how to verify reports that Iraq had sought uranium ore from Niger. Ms. Wilson, an agent working on issues related to weapons of mass destruction, recommended her husband, an expert on Africa, to travel to Niger to investigate the matter.

White House officials had been warning reporters off the notion that the trip to Niger was ordered by Vice President Dick Cheney, as Mr. Wilson had suggested. Emails and a first-person account published this week of his grand-jury testimony by Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper support this notion. The grand jury is set to expire in October in this case, though its tenure could be extended for six months.

It is possible that reporters learned Ms. Wilson's identity from government officials who hadn't seen the memo. Mr. Cooper has testified and written that he was first told of Mr. Wilson's wife by Mr. Rove, the White House deputy chief of staff. Mr. Rove didn't identify Ms. Wilson by name. Similarly, one of Mr. Cooper's other sources, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, said he had heard Mr. Wilson's wife worked at the CIA, but he didn't identify her any further, according to Mr. Cooper.

The fact that two top White House officials discussed a CIA agent with reporters has prompted a furor in Washington, with Democrats calling for the firing of Mr. Rove.

A new ABC News poll signaled how the matter has damaged the administration's credibility -- and the political peril Mr. Rove still faces. Just 25% of Americans say the White House is fully cooperating with the federal investigation into the leak of Ms. Wilson's identity, down from about half when the investigation began nearly two years ago. Moreover, 75% said Mr. Rove should lose his job if he leaked classified information. The poll of 1,008 adults, conducted July 13-17, has a margin of error of three percentage points.

[fob]

26. "It isn't known if president bush* has seen the memo." Maybe not yet

but I do like that fucker*s name showing up as in doubt!

[unlawflcombatnt]

74. Thanks for posting this

Thanks for posting this. This is definitely new. It may lead to charges against even more of Bush's henchman.

[74dodgedart]

13. Kills the "plame wasn't covert" talking point

[LeftNYC]

16. Was this published today only on online or did it make the paper?

Havent seen anything else about it anywhere else. I was wondering if this is brand new info released this morning?

[still_one]

17. keep in mind this isn't on the front page

it is under politics and policy

[Justice]

103. This was on page A3 of the paper yesterday

I saw it there (learned about it late in the day - surprised that more wasn't made of it early in the day).

[McCamy Taylor]

18. Plamegate is like ice cream. Every reporter wants a scoop! Even WSJ!

[sybylla]

19. Happy Birthday to me!

Oh, how special it would be if he went down today! :party:

Even if this is just the beginning. :toast:

There will be another reason to rejoice. :beer:

On this 200th day of the year. :woohoo:

Happy Birthday...to me! :headbang:

[Lars39]

24. Wouldn't that be grand!!!

Happy Birthday,sybylla! :bounce: :party: :toast: :woohoo:

[sybylla]

67. Oh, yeah. n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

35. Damn...

All I got was a DVD for my birthday, you get a mortally wounded Bush Administration.

Actually, my birthday was last week, and I got to watch Bernard Goldberg get bitch-slapped on TDS. That was pretty nice of Jon.

[sybylla]

70. That was a kick-ass interview, wasn't it?

I'd call that a damn fine birthday present myself.

:party: Happy Belated Birthday to you! :party:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

85. I still don't get what he has against Matthew Lesko...

[Laura PourMeADrink]

50. Happy Birthday Sybylla ! My mom turns 80 today ! Whoo Hoo!

[sybylla]

72. Thanks!

:party: Happy 80th Birthday, mom! :party:

[dogday]

21. Here is a little more information

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4130264&mesg_id=4130264

[Pirate Smile]

48. Thanks for that link. Here is what it says:

"But remember, the CIA believes that that memo contains not just incorrect but fraudulent information. TPM Reader DK very helpfully reminded me of this passage from an article in the Post from December 2003 ...

But sources said the CIA believes that people in the administration continue to release classified information to damage the figures at the center of the controversy, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his wife, Valerie Plame, who was exposed as a CIA officer by unidentified senior administration officials for a July 14 column by Robert D. Novak.

</snip>

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_07_...


<snip>

But sources said the CIA believes that people in the administration continue to release classified information to damage the figures at the center of the controversy, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his wife, Valerie Plame, who was exposed as a CIA officer by unidentified senior administration officials for a July 14 column by Robert D. Novak.

Sources said the CIA is angry about the circulation of a still-classified document to conservative news outlets suggesting Plame had a role in arranging her husband's trip to Africa for the CIA. The document, written by a State Department official who works for its Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), describes a meeting at the CIA where the Niger trip by Wilson was discussed, said a senior administration official who has seen it.

CIA officials have challenged the accuracy of the INR document, the official said, because the agency officer identified as talking about Plame's alleged role in arranging Wilson's trip could not have attended the meeting.

"It has been circulated around," one official said. CIA and State Department officials have refused to discuss the document.

</snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=artic... ¬Found=true


There has been talked about a Classified Document that was brought aboard AF1 by Colin Powell. This document not only contain highly classified information, it also contained Fraudulent Information. The Question is who supplied this document to Novack?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4130264&mesg_id=4130264

So that is why all the RW hacks have been spewing lies. They have all been briefed or shown a confidential but factually INACCURATE document and are quoting it extensively.

John Fund (WSJ) has been all over the place lately ranting that Valerie Wilson wasn't covert and she sent her husband on the trip. WRONG! I hope he reads his own paper. Dumbass!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

51. thanks for pulling this together ! It all makes sense now. The

meeting about Plame had INR and CIA present. But the INR took the minutes. They put their slant on the whole deal. But why the hell isn't the CIA speaking up? Have they testified?

[Pirate Smile]

62. I think the CIA may be who is leaking us some of this information on the

investigation. Here is an awesome timeline of the entire CIA leak from dKosopedia. There is a TON of information in it. Extremely interesting.

I'm sure Fitzgerald received information from the CIA regarding everything. The CIA is who requested the investigation in the first place.

Here are a couple of interesting tidbits I noticed in the timeline:

July 12
An administration official, talks to Walter Pincus confidentially about a matter involving alleged Iraqi nuclear activities, and veers off the precise matter being discussing and tells Pincus that the White House had not paid attention to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s CIA-sponsored February 2002 trip to Niger because it was set up as a boondoggle by his wife, an analyst with the agency working on weapons of mass destruction.<26>

Pincus never wrote about this conversation at the time but testified and was deposed.

Walter Pincus, calls Wilson and alerts himi that “they are coming after you.”

-snip-
February 2004
February 10
It is confirmed that Ari Fleischer, Karl Rove, Scott McClellan, the President's press secretary and Adam Levine, a former press aide, testify before the grand jury. Several members of the Vice President's staff have also testified.

In addition to the grand jury proceedings, "prosecutors have conducted meetings with presidential aides that lawyers in the case described as tense and sometimes combative." Finally, Fitzgerald is conducting these interviews in secret, asking the subjects to sign confidentially agreements, and often staff are refusing to do so.

These lawyers also say that the prosecutors have evidence confirming that White House officials were extremely upset with the Wilson article, and with the CIA for sending him to Africa. (David Johnston, "Top Bush Aide is Questioned in CIA Leak," NY Times, Feb. 10, 2003; Allen and Schmidt, "Bush Aides Testify in Leak Probe," Wash. Post Feb. 10, 2004 at A1.)

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Plame_Leak_timeline

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. wow. thanks. this is a true life mystery and it is so much fun to

try and figure out. Too bad we at DU can't be hired by Fitzgerald to pull it all together. I wonder what kind of investigatory and/or analytical staff he's got.

[smoogatz]

22. What we learn from this info:

1.Rove and Libby HAD to know Plame's CIA status was classified. It's not possible that there were all these memos floating around on AF1 and neither Rove nor Libby read any of them.

2.There's undoubtedly a high level leaker giving info to the press: could be Fleischer, could be Powell, but my money's on Tenet--who was, after all, a Cinton appointee, and who took a bullet for Bush over both 9/11 and Iraq WMD.

3.Judith Miller is a paid Bushco hack. She's not in jail to protect Rove--she's in jail in a vain attempt to protect her own journalistic reputation. If she squeals on Rove, he squeals on her. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. About that #2

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of "leaker" I tend to put that into some sub-category of whistleblower. The person who blew the cover is no whistleblower. It was done with malice to manipulate public perception for political gains.

In many ways, this has so many parallels to Watergate in that what was being done was all in the 'context' of 'protecting the President'. More and more, I'm picturing Bush as the One Minute Manager. Trusted henchmen stop into his office (or the offices of his trusted and loyal Top Dogs) to run something past him. Instead of an absolute "yes" or "do it", they get, "well, what do you think you should do?" By doing so, he's implicity given the thumbsup AND the henchmen feels genuine ownership.

They also know that if anything goes down, it's their head because Bush didn't explicitly tell them to do it or lay out the details of how it should be done. The only course of action at this point is absolute, unquestionable loyalty to Bush for their own self-preservation.

Just ask former Secretary Paul O'Neill and contrast that with former Secretary Powell.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/10/oneill.bush/

[smoogatz]

33. When I say "leaker"

in this instance, I mean the person who's tipping reporters off about the existence of these classified memos. Rove is not a "leaker" in the usual, whistleblowing sense, obviously. What he did was a cowardly, malicious act of revenge and intimidation.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. I think the "leaker" could be any number of people...

My understanding is the Colin Powell was very well-respected in the State Department, and many of the career diplomats were disappointed to see how he got steam-rolled. Similarly, the entire intelligence community has been the whipping boy for the Administration in their attempt to spin their lies into "faulty intelligence." I'm thinking that that at Langley, you could probably hold a raffle to determine who gets to leak the next memo.

[smoogatz]

44. Great point.

There are plenty of candidates, as you say--from Tenet and McLaughlin on down at CIA, and take-your-pick at state.

[Norquist Nemesis]

47. Gotcha!

And agree!

At this point, the CIA blown cover is just the cork popped from a conspiracy. All in the name of keeping GWB and the anti-Democrats in power. It's been a whatever it takes, no holds barred, do it and you'll be protected under cover of National Security operation...unless of course, you show dissent.

[Boo Boo]

98. Yeah, and perhaps a great deal of malice, because

Novak's article used the name "Plame." I mean it would have been perfectly easy to just say that Wilson's wife works at the CIA as an analyst and is the one that arranged his trip if all you were trying to do was discredit him. Seems to me quite possible that this wasn't just an attempt to manipulate public opinion, but to make sure that Valerie Wilson was destroyed; and object lesson for anybody else that might try to fuck with the Neocon cabal.

If you look at the various ramifications of outing Valerie Plame, discrediting Wilson almost seems like an afterthought; a little bit of spin. The other aspects are so much bigger: the destruction of a career, the revealing of a network of assets around the world. It's hard for me to believe that Cheney, Libby, or whomever didn't understand what they were doing. And, end of day, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that it was Bush that ordered it. He strikes me as extremely (perhaps obsessively) vindictive. Maybe he did so obliquely, but, OTOH, he's not a typically a real subtle guy.

He is, after all, the one that walked into a room full of Senators and said "Fuck Saddam, we're taking him out!"

[tblue37]

100. Who will rid me of this troublesome priest? (eom)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. So who knows exactly who was on the plane that day? And is this

THE SAME MEMO THAT IS DESCRIBED IN DAILY KOS PLAME DIARY?:

"The memo, prepared by U.S. intelligence personnel, details a meeting in early 2002 where CIA officer Valerie Plame and other intelligence officials gathered to brainstorm about how to verify reports that Iraq had sought uranium yellowcake from Niger.
Ms. Plame, a member of the agency's clandestine service working on Iraqi weapons issues, suggested at the meeting that her husband, Africa expert and former U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, could be sent to Niger to investigate the reports, according to current and former government officials familiar with the meeting at the CIA's Virginia headquarters. Soon after, midlevel CIA officials decided to send him, say intelligence officials. " snip

By "U.S. Intelligence personnel" are they referring to INR formerly headed by Carl Ford?


THE SAME DOCUMENT THAT GANNON IS TALKING ABOUT ON FREE REPUBLIC WHICH THEY IMPLY IS FORGED?:

"To: Peach
You are kind. What is interesting about this is that I have become ensnared in this matter because I asked questions of my government.

This may a chilling effect on freedom of the press.

All this commotion, but the central question has yet to be answered: At the time that Robert Novak's column was published, was Valerie Plame a "covert operative"?

The CIA has refused to comment on this very important point.

If she was not, then no crime has been committed and all communications between the administration and reporters is just gossip. ---Jeff Gannon
....
To: Jeff Gannon

That is simply not true, Jeff.

You are ensnared because you made reference to a government document, which appears to have been a forgery. You need to tell the Grand Jury who made you privy to that document. ---JohnGalt

To: Jeff Gannon
What was the document you referred to in the interview with Wilson? ---JohnGalt

To: JohnGalt

I disagree with your characterization of the document itself, but that aside, I maintain that I am under no obligation whatsoever to reveal my sources. That is a fundamental element of maintaining a free press. ---Jeff Gannon"


THIRDLY, Is this the same memo that went on the plane?

[smoogatz]

34. There appear to be multiple memos

The one you refer to, and another (mentioned today in the WSJ) warning Bushco officials to be careful in talking about Plame, because of her covert status. No doubt there are others, as well. Fascists keep careful records.

The Gannon connection to all this is fascinating, though less important than the Rove/Libby/Cheney/Bush nexus. He was obviously a direct conduit between Rove and the RW blogosphere (Drudge undoubtedly another). I sure would like to know what their personal relationship was--maybe Fitz will out the outers. Poetic justice.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

43. Yes on Gannon. Where the hell did this guy come from ? Who

found him? And why did they trust an unknown gay prostitute so much??

3-29-03 Talon News Website set up
4-3-03 Gannon gets WH press room credentials
6-23-03 Gannon registers at Free Republic
Sometime before October 2003 - Gannon has classifed US Intelligence document


But remember also, someone dug up the number of visits he made to the WH? I need to find that info too.

But you are right, he is not the play caller he is stooge.

[Old and In the Way]

90. In the context of this administration's marketing of the Iraqi War,

it would appear that Jeff was brought on to provide a conduit between the WH and the RW media. Witin weeks of the invasion. Interesting that Talon goes live on 3/29 and Gannon is hired on 4/3. A real vetting process going on there.....hmmm, do you think this was all pre-planned? His lack of a personal history was probably a factor in their hiring him for WH correspondent. He had no ties to any RW organization before signing on with Talon. As it turns out, he doesn't seem to have had any ties to anything.

Jeff was obviously a partisan Republican hack. He had no journalistic hang-ups about using his position to parrot and facilitate this administration's agenda. A hired whore in every sense of the word.

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. The same Carl Ford who testified about John Bolton?

hmmmm......

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. Oui

[dogday]

81. How about this?

They discussed this classified document aboard AF1 with (whoever was on-board) then made some calls (Novack and Miller) to start the wheels in motion.... We know the phone records were subpoenaed from AF1. It will be interesting to tie that memo to the phone calls at the same time...

That's why Rove said Novack told him about it, not the other way around. Because Novack got the call from AF1. Miller, well she does not want to talk about it....


Just this dogs THEORY.....

If you want to read a good timeline on this, great article by Time...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4123727

[Laura PourMeADrink]

87. Dogday. Yes. You are probably right. How many days before

Novak published? Good thinking !

[dogday]

91. Read the timeline below

July 7: Secretary of State Colin Powell boards Air Force One for a trip to Africa with the President. Either just before or during that trip, Powell is given a memo concerning Wilson's Niger probe. The memo, prepared by State Department officials in June in reaction to media stories about the trip, says Wilson's wife works for the CIA and refers to her as Valerie Wilson.



July 8: Karl Rove discusses Wilson's trip and the role that Wilson's wife may or may not have played in initiating that trip with journalist Robert Novak. The telephone call, according to a New York Times story published last week, had been initiated by Novak, who in the course of his conversation with Rove identified Wilson's wife by her maiden name.



July 11: Rove discusses the same topic with TIME correspondent Matthew Cooper. The same day, CIA Director George Tenet says mea culpa for not cutting the Niger claim from Bush's speech, citing pressure from the National Security Council (NSC). Within days, NSC deputy Stephen Hadley says he forgot seeing two memos from the agency expressing doubts about the intelligence.



July 14: In his syndicated column, Novak outs Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as an "agency operative on weapons of mass destruction" in a piece about the fallout from Wilson's Op-Ed. He writes, "Two senior Administration officials told me that his wife suggested sending Wilson to Niger to investigate."

[OzarkDem]

96. IMHO Rove already knew

As close as Bushco works and as deeply involved as Rove's strategies are, he knew who Plame & Wilson were in 2002 when Wilson first made the trip. Wilson already said Cheney approved Wilson's trip, he had to know who Plame was at that time.

These guys don't make a move without knowing all the details, all the players up front.

When Wilson spoke out in July 2003, the meetings on AF1 were simply strategy sessions on how to punish and discredit him while protecting WH sources. The phone calls were made to Miller & Novak and the WH to coordinate the plan, one that would give Rove, etal "plausible deniability".

[skip fox]

31. Beautiful. Everyday I'm more sure that Rove masterminded the leaks.

But now they might be able to be shown knowingly unlawful! They are also deliberate. 6 contacts by at least 3 leakers doesn't happen by chance.

Therefore it seems that there will be multiple indictments for "high administration officials" in Fitzgerald's final report including at least two for Rove. (If not indictments, we'll have notifications of non-indictable wrongful activities--or some such--in the prosecutor's final report).

I say this because in learning about multiple leakers for the six reported contacts and multiple confirming sources, it becomes apparent what occurred. One administrative official discovered the Plame-Wilson-Niger relationship, took it to the White House Iraq Group, turned it over to Rove, who on the spot assigned tasks to different primary leakers/sources assuring no source called another source's contact (so as not to appear too eager), that no source's "pitch" was exactly the same but that their information was all given in an "off hand" manner (e.g., "Don't go too far out on this Wilson thing, I don't want you burnt").

Simply "doing the numbers" has told me this all along, but as new information comes out my analysis is being confirmed. We knew there were at least 6 initial leaks/contacts. Now we know that there were at least three different initial leakers (Fleicher Rove, Libby) and of the 6 reporters 4 are confirmed as Miller, Novak, Cooper, and Pincus. We also realize that there must have been a number of other confirming sources (because you cannot assure who the reporter will call for confirmation).

A master-mind would have been necessary to coordinate all these calls by different people AND would have to insure that a number of other officials were ready and willing to confirm the initial leaks.

They would have gone to Rove immediately and he, probably in an emergency of the White House Iraq Group, assigned the roles, the stories and the stances, etc.

So he not only leaked by was the mastermind of a conspiracy to leak.

We can only hope he lead a cover-up and committed perjury as well.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Gannon is a confirmed source

From Daily Kos Plame Diary

Except, once Gannon thought the storm had passed, he reveals that he was leaked the memo, or at least told of its contents... (sometime last year in an article on his website "Joe Wilson Lied and Owes George W. Bush and America (and Me) an Apology". There is no date stamp on the article)


"A memo written by an INR (Intelligence and Research) analyst who made notes of the meeting at which Wilson was asked to go to Niger sensed that something fishy was going on. That report made it to the outside world courtesy of some patriotic whistleblower that realized that a bag job was underway.
....

The classified document that slipped out sometime after the meeting put her name before the public, albeit a small group of inside-the-beltway types, but effectively ended the notion that she was still covert.

....

I raised all of these questions with Wilson in October 2003 in an interview for Talon News. Since I was aware of the INR report, I confronted him about it.

What is difficult to understand is the reason that the CIA would want to discredit this report. The first clue came when the agents from the FBI came to my home in March 2003 to question me in connection to the leak probe. I was flattered to think that I was important enough to be included among the luminaries like Andrea Mitchell, Tim Russert and Chris Matthews who were also named in a Justice Department subpoena of records from the White House. But most of the questions were about the INR report. They wanted to know where I got it and what I knew about it. Of course, as a journalist there wasn't much I could say without revealing my sources. I'm sure they were not satisfied, but it made me wonder why they were so interested in a document the CIA said was false."

So how is it that a journalist who only set up shop in March 2003 and received WH press credentials on April 3, 2003 and posts regularly on the FreeRepublic.com bulletin boards, was "in the loop" enough to have knowledge of a classified CIA memo by October 2003, that supposedly only "inside-the-beltway types" knew about and no one at the CIA would confirm? There is only one conclusion. He was planted by, and used to help, the administration.

[skip fox]

41. Great. He's in it even deeper. When the sh*t started hitting the fan on

this, Rove's first move was to push the "everybody in the beltway knew that she was CIA." Novak said this on Crossfire and Gannon reported it himself (using his "knowledge") to support the story. No other reporters, curiously, reported to having so known.

This means more collusion on Rove's part. More planning, conspiracy, etc. Jesus!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

45. I am still set on my post from last week on what I think happened

1. The evil empire (EE) knew they couldn't legally leak Plame's identity.

2. So the EE secretly leaks the INR report (forged?) about Plame/husband connection. (hell, they could have mailed it anonymously). They wait.

3. They very, very carefully, for fear of self-incrimination, prod Novak. He jumps.

4. Once Novak is published, they spread the word (it was legal then). (This is where Rove almost fucks up, since he jumped too quick, but gets around it by claiming he forgot who in the press told him before (good lie - can't prove)

5. They enlist Gannon to spread the word as well in freeper land.(see below)

6. By now, every reporter in town probably knows. Most of their sources (besides the ones who got called by Rover and friends) are probably each other.

Bottom line, they use the press, and they will get away with this.

[skip fox]

53. Our scenes do not preclude each other. In fact, yours shows an

additional dimension requiring the need for planning. Who better, etc.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. Oh I agree. There are other players involved. It was orchestrated

like a symphony. Finding out who the conductor(s) was and who the players were is only a formality.

Another post going about the Niger yellowcake forgery that ties in as well.

The importance of keeping that whole deal a secret explains why they did and are still trying to discredit Wilson.

All points now lead back to a trumped up war. But a trumped up war leads back to "who" and "why" (money, no doubt)

[writes2000]

64. But Don't You See, If Fitzgerald HAS Gannon's Forged Document

Which falsely claims that Plame isn't covert, then this is the biggest smoking gun ever.

No wonder Fitzgerald wants fax records throughout the White House. And if Novak received a similar copy?

This is a grand scale conspiracy.

If half of this is true, they are in much deeper water than I imagined.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. Ok, let's get on the same page. I am still trying to get this straight

in my head. There is an INR doc which describes the meeting about Niger and Wilson. This doc took the State Dept perspective, right? I guess there wasn't another doc from the CIA perspective, I assume. Unless the INR doc was "amended" further, at this point we are dealing with one document (which is also the same doc that got on AF1). Right?

So unless Fitz is comparing the original INR doc to an amended version, he would have to compare the document with what CIA reps who were at the meeting say under supeona?

P.S. I guess I am not really asking you anything -- just thinking this through...

[writes2000]

71. Better yet, let me ask you a question. In your theory...?

Why was Gannon so sure that Plame wasn't covert? I assume it's because the document he read said her identity wasn't classified.

But the WSJ article says that the memo that Powell received specified that her identity was classified info.

Who generated both documents? Were they the same document or were they altered in some way?

[skip fox]

78. Gannon said it to back up administration's contention that no crime had

been committed. Gannon and Novak both claimed everyone in the know in the beltway, even a lowly reporter like Gannon, knows Plame is Wilson's wife and works at the CIA.

Interestingly, no other reporters said this.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

80. Exactly. It is because they were fed the Evil Empire's bullshit. It

really looks like Novak and Gannon were more than just disinterested third parties. they were the apparatus.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

79. I don't know. You might be right. It does look like he thought she

was covert in October 2003 (actually this is when he published his Wilson interview - which I didn't check to see when that actually took place....


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/5/212837/3714


IN OCTOBER 2003, GANNON THINKS SHE WAS CLANDESTINE?

October 28, 2003 - Gannon publishes his interview with Wilson.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/nw03/talonnews/1003/102803-wilson.htm


TN: An internal government memo prepared by U.S. intelligence personnel details a meeting in early 2002 where your wife, a member of the agency for clandestine service working on Iraqi weapons issues, suggested that you could be sent to investigate the reports. Do you dispute that?


IN NOVEMBER 2003, GANNON THINKS SHE WASN'T CLANDESTINE?

November 3, 2003 - Part III of the Wilson/ Gannon interview is posted. And now the agenda is to discredit the CIA and push the story that Plame's name was already known so there was no crime in disclosing it.

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2003/november/1103_wilson_interview.shtml


TN: Nicholas Kristoff wrote in the New York Times recently that the CIA believes that Aldrich Ames may have betrayed your wife to the Russians prior to his arrest in 1994. That would make her not an undercover operative for the CIA in effect.


IN MARCH, 2004 - GANNON THINKS SHE WASN'T CLANDESTINE..

March 9, 2004 - Gannon gets into a heated exchange with another poster of FreeRepublic.com regarding the Grand Jury subpoena... and Gannon sticks to his talking points - Plame wasn't covert.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1093819/posts


To: Peach
You are kind. What is interesting about this is that I have become ensnared in this matter because I asked questions of my government.

This may a chilling effect on freedom of the press.

All this commotion, but the central question has yet to be answered: At the time that Robert Novak's column was published, was Valerie Plame a "covert operative"?

The CIA has refused to comment on this very important point.

If she was not, then no crime has been committed and all communications between the administration and reporters is just gossip. ---Jeff Gannon

....

To: Jeff Gannon

That is simply not true, Jeff.

You are ensnared because you made reference to a government document, which appears to have been a forgery. You need to tell the Grand Jury who made you privy to that document. ---JohnGalt

To: Jeff Gannon
What was the document you referred to in the interview with Wilson? ---JohnGalt

To: JohnGalt

I disagree with your characterization of the document itself, but that aside, I maintain that I am under no obligation whatsoever to reveal my sources. That is a fundamental element of maintaining a free press. ---Jeff Gannon

[writes2000]

82. The "Adrich Ames outed her" excuse is so damn lame.

It looks to me like the White House engaged in a cover up to mask the fact that Valerie Plame was indeed covert.

Perhaps they went so far as to doctor paperwork to justify that position.

Based on the judges' reactions to Fitzgerald's arguments, I think there are several smoking guns.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

86. Yes, we can probably assume that Gannon, being the neophyte

that he was, did not have enough knowledge or savy to formulate these ideas on his own. Every thing he said was probably planted by Rove et al. Wish I had time to analyze every word.

I wonder if Fitzgerald has knowledge of Gannon's past and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his press credentialing.

[cliss]

61. You know what's the most damning about this

investigation? It's not clear exactly WHO the leaker is. There's an element of mystery; a whodunit.

This is the kind of thing that makes for stories. And digging. Think of the Da Vinci Code. That book sold millions, and Dan Brown made a lot of money on it. And of course, Watergate.

No doubt about it; this is fodder for news stories.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

69. W & B on Daily Show last night, Jon asked them if they could

have uncovered Watergate in today's environment. They both said "Oh definitely"

It pissed me off and I screamed at the TV, well why the hell don't you figure this plame/rush to war mystery.

[Catrina]

54. I'm confused about some dates

According to your post Gannon claims to have been questioned about his Wilson interview in March, 2003, but the interview, again according to your post, didn't take place until October, 2003.

I'm thinking the March date is a mistake, and was meant to be March, 2004.

I posted this in another thread, but in a recent entry on his website, Gannon contradicts himself as to when he spoke to Joe Wilson.

In your post above, and in many other reports I've seen, he has always said his Wilson interview took place in October. It was placed on Talon News' website in October. This to him, became important because the only other media outlet that mentioned the memo was the WSJ and they did not mention it until October, 2003.

When answering questions from the FBI, he apparently claimed his 'source' was the media. Although in your article, he seems to be saying he did not reveal his source and they just let him off the hook!! His new date of the interview being September, 2003, however, means he did not get the info from the media. No media outlet had mentioned the memo until the WSJ did in October, 2003.

Here's an excerpt from his website in June of this year ~

I acquired knowledge of the memo and the Wall Street Journal reported on it, but no other media outlet mentioned it. I confronted Wilson about it in a September 2003 interview, for which I was rewarded by a visit from two FBI agents.

http://www.jeffgannon.com/archives/2005/06/plame_probe_may.html#comments

So, which is it, did he get the info from the press, the WSJ article on the memo in Oct. 2003, as we were led to believe he told the FBI, or did he have it in Sept. when he says now he interviewed Wilson, and could not have used the WSJ article for his info on the memo?

Just a guess, but I think, considering he's back making the claim that he was important enought to have 'acquired' this info before anyone else (he may receive another visit from the FBI) he either was told about it by his bosses at GOPUSA who got it directly from the WH.

Or, he got it himself on one of his visits there where he either didn't log in, or didn't log out! Maybe Ari gave him the info. Ari was on Airforce One. Gannon attended a farewell party for Ari, AIRC, not long after all this became news.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

73. Found this quote from Gannon from 7-22 but I guess he is talking

about some other intelligence reports...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/950487/posts

It hasn�t been called �Intelligence-gate� yet, but it won�t be long before somebody uses the term. The media feeding frenzy over the �16 words� in the President�s State of the Union address continues to overshadow all other news. Despite official explanations, the release of intelligence reports and a White House spokesman calling the implication that the President deliberately misled the nation �nonsense�, it seems that nothing will stop the media�s quest for a pound of flesh. Even the fact that George W. Bush�s statement about Iraq�s attempts to purchase uranium from Africa is �technically accurate� doesn�t seem to be an obstacle for the agenda-driven press corps.

P>S> Still checking the rest of what you wrote me....

[writes2000]

57. Oh My God, This is HUGE!!! I never realized this. Fitzgerald's Got 'Em!

Jeff Gannon may end up being their downfall.

Unbelievable.

[Julius Civitatus]

46. It shows you how different the WSJ editorial can be from its reporters

It has been noted for a long time that the WSJ is an increasingly schizophrenic publication, with two very different factions, one being the fascist editorial board, and the other the reporters.

It's interesting that while the WSJ editorial board is claiming that "Rove should get a medal," a WSJ reporter just revealed this bombshell, a very damaging piece of evidence against Rove.

[SuperWonk]

58. Interesting post, Laura...

"4. Once Novak is published, they spread the word (it was legal then). (This is where Rove almost fucks up, since he jumped too quick, but gets around it by claiming he forgot who in the press told him before (good lie - can't prove)"

It seems like the media knew a lot more than many government folks this time around.
It will be interesting to see how Fitz sorts all this out.

[ElectroPrincess]

59. The Washington Post is similarly cursed ...

Like the WSJ, excellent reporting ... investigative journalism (world, region, business etc) but mostly shilling for the Bush Administration's position within most of its (WP) Editorial Pages.

[sam sarrha]

63. so was Powel laying land mines on the way out !! HAHAHAHAHA

:rofl: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :woohoo:

[rucky]

88. COLIN POWELL is Deep Throat II???? n/.t

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

92. Why is this story not getting play anywhere else?

Such as rawstory?

:kick:

[blitzburgh55]

95. Gloria Borger mentioned the CIA memo on CBS last night

Here's the video. It gets interesting from the about the middle to the end. Especially when she says "Someone who is close to the investigation said that things are going to get very messy when the truth comes out"

http://video.cgi.cbsnews.com/video/video.pl?url=/media/2005/07/18/video709878.wmv&sid=250&dart=news.video

[blitzburgh55]

93. Raw Story

has some more info on the memo. This is getting exciting. :party:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Wall_Street_Journal_enters_Rove_fray_State_Dept._memo_made_clear_info_shouldnt_be_shar_0719.html

[emulatorloo]

94. Daily Kos Link and Discussion Here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/19/134031/241

[OKNancy]

97. KICK

:kick:

[Goblyn]

101. keep this thread going !

Kick !! INdeed.

lots of stuff happening right now..

WE need to keep our eye on the ball..

SCOTUS and SMirking CHimp and his organ grinder handler TURDblossom..

[whatelseisnew]

102. .

[Justice]

104. If Powell allowed others with a security clearance to see/hear about the

memo, that is probably okay, right? So if Ari had the clearance (if he did) needed to read the memo, it was okay to see/read the memo -- and if Rove had the clearance to read the memo - ok to be told about it --

the problem to me is they wanted to kill the story suggesting that Cheney sent Wilson -- and the only way to do that (they thought) was to get the reporters hooked on the story as to how Wilson came to go to Niger. It wasn't just to correct Cooper's misimpression about Cheney -- it was to give them an alternative to consider.

We know Ari started suggesting to reporters on Air Force One that they should ask how Wilson came to go to Niger - and Rove started his discussions with Novak and Cooper -- and anyone who would listen.

They apparently thought it wasn't enough just to say Cheney didn't send him. (The irony is that Wilson never said Cheney sent him, he said the CIA told him that Cheney's office wanted someone to go - b/c the press reports glossed over that point - and slammed Wilson for "lying" about it - the press actually forced Rove's strategy).

I think Rove, Ari et al executed their plan badly - trying to dispell notions that Cheney sent Wilson - and somewhere went over the line and disclosed Plame's identity. They must have felt safe enought to be so clumsly - b/c Ari certainly was pretty slick with reporters - asking them to check into why Wilson went.