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liberalfriend Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 06:36 PM
Original message
Yet another Debunking request
I have a friend who fancies herself to be a "hardcore republican" so she sent me this e-mail today. If you all could please rip it to shreds. I've directed her to look to the site and watch her argument go up in flames.

MuWAHAHAHAHAHA!

1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:

Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)

Joe Wilson: “hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson - I Don’t Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)

CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:

Believed That Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

CIA Director George Tenet: “Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant

Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium “Allegations.” “I knew that had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)

Officials Said Evidence In Wilson’s Niger Report Was “Thin” And His “Homework Was Shoddy.” (Michael Duffy, “Leaking With A Vengeance,” Time, 10/13/03)

Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador’s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts’ Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
“For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilson’s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. “Because report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release 7/11/03)

The Butler Report Claimed That The President’s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, “Was Well-Founded.” “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.’ was well-founded.” (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, “Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,” 7/14/04)

4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:

Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson’s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. “Some CPD, officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:

Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife’s Suggestion. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?” Joe Wilson: “The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it’s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton’s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. “The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA’s behalf … The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region …” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)


Note: Several points have been deleted based on relevance and size constraints. I assure you the point about Wilson's book had no real relevance. Or the issue on him being the victim of a partisan smear campaign. My apologies on the size of the post.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Start Here
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 06:47 PM by emulatorloo
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/004870.php


Treasongate (Part VI): Response to GOP talking points

(be sure to follow the links)
----------------------------------------------------


and then here:
--------------------------------------------------------
http://mediamatters.org/items/200507150005

Memo to Mehlman interviewers: RNC chair tells the same lies over and over about Rove controversy
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newblewtoo Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. GOP TALKING POINTS
Almost verbatim from the GOP:
http://rnc.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=5630

Now if you go there take a shower before coming back.....
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kos
-http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Niger_uranium

That's the best site I found.

One thing they might remember is there were three reports, not just Wilson's and they all said the same thing.
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liberalfriend Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. really three reports!!??
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yes,Really
There were 3 reports that disproved the Niger-Uranium rumor.

Here is what Wilson said in his book,The Politics of Truth, page 2:

"they had chosen to ignore three reports that had been in their files for nearly a year:mine as well as two others - one submitted by the American Ambassador to Niger, Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, and the other by four-star Marine Corps General Carlwton Fulford, who had also travled there."

You can also go to the Kos site I provided the url for. They have independent source confirmation on that page.

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SonofMass Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. But you have to remember that no one in this whole matter
has been more truthful than Joe Wilson. His word is trusted worldwide!!!!
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Thanks for clearing up my confusion, Gannon had one, one for
Marc Grossman and whats the other?
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pk_du Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dear "hardcore republican"
Please read the cited "evidence".....please note that 1, 2,and 3 are NOT supported by the reading of such "evidence".

e.g.

Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)


....in which part of the above does Wilson claims VPs office sent him ?
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liberalfriend Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. well there you go
another reason never to trust republicans....

did you hear that Dianne?! Muwahahahahaha!!!
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. you're on a roll tonight, eh
excited?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. So your friend thinks it's perfectly all right
So your friend thinks it's perfectly all right to compromise national security by outing covert CIA agents to settle a political score?
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. And here's more:
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. We have GOT to STOP this Roberts nomination. NOTHING ELSE
MATTERS!!!
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here are my sources, not all but many
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/07/mr_bush_have_yo.html#more
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/9/191334/0754

Plame leak timeline
http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Plame_Leak_timeline#July_12

Rove Gannon connection
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/18/opinion/lynch/main675050.shtml

New Yorker: fact

WHO LIED TO WHOM?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Why did the Administration endorse a forgery about Iraq’s nuclear program?
Issue of 2003-03-31
Posted 2003-03-24
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Npgb5IoycjIJ:www.newyorker.com/fact/content/%3F030331fa_fact1+%22New+Yorker%22+Niger+Uranium+forgery&hl=en&client=safari

Multiple sources refuting GOP Claims
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22New+Yorker%22+Niger+Uranium+forgery&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Jeff Gannon's admission of useing a classified doc on Free Republic
"The truth will set you free! I point you to the WashPo story from Dec 26, 2003 that says the CIA is upset with me for talking about a document they say is a forgery (when they are not denying that it exists) that details EXACTLY what the Senate Intel Committee says."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1168703/posts?page=108#108


http://www.ronsuskind.com/newsite/articles/archives/000032.html


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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. Read Murray Wass
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:24 PM by caligirl
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10016

An Unlikely Story
Karl Rove's alibi would be easier to believe if he hadn't hidden it from FBI investigators in 2003.

By Murray Waas
Web Exclusive: 07.19.05

Print Friendly | Email Article

White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove did not disclose that he had ever discussed CIA officer Valerie Plame with Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper during Rove’s first interview with the FBI, according to legal sources with firsthand knowledge of the matter.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. cia Agent Johnson,says at his web site No Quuarter the following about

The republicans strategy to deflect from the facts.
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/07/the_real_outrag.html

The Republicans now want to hide behind the legalism that "no laws were broken". I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached. For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC. They have set a precendent that the next group of political hacks may feel free to violate.

They try to hide behind the specious claim that Joe Wilson "lied". Although Joe did not lie let's follow that reasoning to the logical conclusion. Let's use the same standard for the Bush Administration. Here are the facts. Bush's lies have resulted in the deaths of almost 1800 American soldiers and the mutilation of 12,000. Joe Wilson has not killed anyone. He tried to prevent the needless death of Americans and the loss of American prestige in the world.

But don't take my word for it, read the biased Senate intelligence committee report. Even thought it was slanted to try to portray Joe in the worst possible light this fact emerges on page 52 of the report: According to the US Ambassador to Niger (who was commenting on Joe's visit in February 2002), "Ambassador Wilson reached the same conclusion that the Embassy has reached that it was highly unlikely that anything between Iraq and Niger was going on." Joe's findings were consistent with those of the Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford.

The Republicans insist on the lie that Val got her husband the job. She did not. She was not a division director, instead she was the equivalent of an Army major. Yes it is true she recommended her husband to do the job that needed to be done but only after fielding a request from her supervisor asking for her husband's bona fides. The decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses and was in response to a request relayed to the division Valerie worked in by the Presidential daily briefer.

At the end of the day, Joe Wilson was right. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It was the Bush Administration that pushed that lie and because of that lie Americans are dying. Shame on those who continue to slander Joe Wilson while giving Bush and his pack of liars a pass. That's the true outrage.
Larry Johnson
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