Excellent Helen Thomas article on Joe Biden's stance on Iraq.

[Cascadian]

Here's yet another example of why Helen Thomas is one of the finest journalists in the country and here is also another example why Joe Biden must not become the Democratic presidential nominee. This is from her recent column I read in the Seattle Post Intelligencer. Read on.....

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/233074_thomas19.html

Joe Biden seems to think along the old and tired "me too" line when it comes to the Iraq war. Biden thinks we should "stay the course" in Iraq. As for Iraq disintegrating into a training ground for terrorists? Uh, Senator. It's already disintergrated and the terrorists are already there! The Delaware Senator also thinks pulling out would be as quoted "a gigantic mistake." Really? As much of a gigantic mistake as voting in favor of Bush's invasion of Iraq, Joe?

I swear. If this man becomes the Democratic presidential nominee, then he won't be getting my vote. However, I doubt he will. Let's hope not anyway. This man has been making me sick a lot lately. From supporting the Chimp's invasion to liking Neocon Alberto Gonzales to that blasted bankruptcy bill. Sorry but no Joementum is coming from me!


John

[Mythsaje]

1. I'll vote

Libertarian before I vote for a DLC hack.

[Cascadian]

3. Any person who voted in favor of the war won't get my vote.

Anybody who wants the troops still there will not...WILL NOT get my vote. I am so sick and tired of these neocon enablers and "me too" people in the Democratic Party. They should start fighting these Neocon clowns or get out of the way! Plain and simple. It's time for them to come home.

John

[electron_blue]

10. Biden strikes me as a limp noodle

Thanks for the link.

[Strawman]

2. His consultants say the party needs to be more "muscular"

So he's casting himself the straight talk, no-nonsense Democratic McCain type. Gotta show all those "NASCAR dads" and "Reagan Democrats" he's not big sissy, by being for kicking some ass, ya know. I'm so sick of posturing phonies like him. I find him to be an annoying egomaniac press dandy.

[greekspeak]

7. I agree...the dems need to get some muscle and fight back!

NASCAR dads and Reagan Democrats? NASCAR dads are lost to AM hate radio. And the idea of Reagan Dems is so 1980. That is 25 years ago now. They are republicans now. How bout the f-ing BASE? This hands out to the conservatives by being just as crummy as they are is for the birds.

[Cascadian]

8. That hand reaching out to the conservatives.....

has just been bitten off. When are our so-called Democratic leaders going to get the hint?


John

[Strawman]

9. Yeah, we can never be as "strong and wrong" as they are

Shooting off a guided missle at some Arab country every once in awhile doesn't placate the people who want to nuke Mecca and convince them to finally shift their focus to pocketbook issues. Those hateful nuts are lost, unless you can get them to hate their rich bosses more than gays and foreigners somehow which is not likely because they're hateful for a reason: they're stupid.

[quaoar]

18. I'm a NASCAR dad

Of course, I like Jeff Gordon, so I'm not your typical NASCAR fan.

[Toots]

21. He has no military service so he needs Bush* type toughness

Funny how all those with no service are sooo gung ho for war...

[ChiciB1]

30. As My Husband Would Say....

They need to get "some shit in their necks"!!

WE NEED LEADERS!!!!

[joemurphy]

4. Don't apologize. He doesnt' get my vote either.

Sadly, most of our "leaders" were Presidential contenders in the run up to the Iraq War. They all caved in to political expediency and let Bush have his invasion. Kerry, Hillary, Biden, Edwards, Bayh, Lieberman and the list goes on. Only Kennedy, Durbin, Byrd, Wellstone, and Boxer put up much of a fight against the war in the Senate.

And Daschle folded in the house.

Howard Dean was vocal as a governor on the issue and it catapulted him into the national limelight.

I think the present marked lack of enthusiam for taking up the DSM in the Senate and our passivity when Roberts blew off the second part of the inquiry into the uses put to intelligence in the Sentate Intelligence Committee is directly attributable to our leadership's gutlessness on this score. It was disgraceful and disastrous.

The lesson I take from this is stand by your convictions and speak out on them. If we had taken that stance, maybe we could have avoided that War. We might also well have won the 2004 election.

[greekspeak]

5. Biden, Holy Joe, et al enablers: cross the aisle or act as opposition!

Tired of hearing about the lapdogs. These guys need to go into mothballs with Zell & Daschle or shape up.

[FloridaPat]

6. I never realized how stupid people become when there is a war

on, even a fake lied-to war. Is this another male-female thing? All these men congressmen are so determined not to loose. They may loose the country, the Constitution, and the rest of the world, but they can't loose in Iraq. Just like Vietnam. 22 years of "winning". Why do people put up with this crap and expense?

OK, I've been against wars since Vietnam. So no reason to be there and am still waiting to find out why. And this invasion is absolutely disgusting. And people are still for it!

[Cascadian]

11. kick

[bvar22]

12. Gee, I get the impression that Helen despises the "centrists".

"Biden will learn that his "me too" loyal support of the president's foreign policy is not the way to win the presidency. Just ask John Kerry."


I stand with Helen Thomas. We already have the Republican Party to represent the Corporatists, the War profiteers, and the Investor Class. The Democratic Party needs to representthe rest of us, the other 98%.

[gulfcoastliberal]

13. Biden sucks and that line of thinking sucks, too. Recommending.

I don't get it. But then again I don't get a lot of things my countrymen think these days.

[LittleClarkie]

14. I prefer Joementum, actually

He is at least consistent. You know where he's gonna stand even if you don't agree. The smarm factor isn't there, you know?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

15. Buck Joe Fiden. Buck him.

[AX10]

16. kick

[OneTwentyoNine]

17. Helped out the Credit card companies,now its time to help Halliburton...

make BILLIONS MORE,Eh Joe?? Stay the course my ass....

[tabasco]

19. I handed out pamphlets for Hubert Humphrey when I was 13.

But I'll be goddamed if I vote for one of these idiots that wants to continue the Iraq quagmire.

Any fool that voted to give a bigger fool (Bush) power to wage war will not get my vote.

If the Democratic pary isn't the anti-war party, I'll go with one that is.

[Cascadian]

20. The prospects of an anti-Iraq war Democratic candidate are dim.

I am not liking what I see coming out of the Democratic Party and who people are talking about as a possible candidate for president in '08. I am sorry but all this talk about Hillary or Obama is just a case of fools rushing in. I cannot support anymore pro-war, pro-corporate DLC hacks. If Barbara Boxer enters the race, I will support her. If John Conyers enters the race, I will support him. Hell! I will support Dennis Kucinich if he tries another run. Otherwise, I may vote either Green or Socialist.


John

[truth2power]

22. Cascadian, I totally agree.

I think I'm gonna print this out and carry it in my wallet, as a positive affirmation or something: "I cannot support anymore pro-war, pro-corporate DLC hacks. If Barbara Boxer enters the race, I will support her. If John Conyers enters the race, I will support him. Hell! I will support Dennis Kucinich if he tries another run. Otherwise, I may vote either Green or Socialist."

I'm sick of Dems doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different outcome. Yeah, let's be more like them so they'll vote for us. Not gonna work.

[IndianaGreen]

24. I will never accept a prowar candidate

anymore than I would accept a candidate that was against reproductive rights and GLBT rights.

[BIG Sean]

23. Great Article...thanks!.....NT

nt

[Donna Zen]

25. Prediction I hate to make

The day will come when I enter these hallowed forums and will find a message board filled with chastisements of why I must vote for Biden or Bayh or most probably, Hillary. That day is the day I leave.

I will not support those who put their petty egos above the truth. If I knew the truth about Iraq; then they surely knew the truth about Iraq. The blood is on their hands, not mine.

Iraq...the Patriots Act...NCLB...the list of sell out issues goes on and on.

Someone at MyDD was musing about why Clark places first in the online polls. In the latest Kos poll the leaders include Dean, Feingold, Gore and Clark. To think that it is some mysterious plot is to miss the point: those candidates, all Democrats who opposed the war, are the choice of people who take the time to learn the truth.

So don't point the finger of how I'm helping Rove, point the finger at the Democratic power brokers who can't understand that love of country comes before their insider games. 95% of the Democratic Convention delegates were against the war that was curiously absent from the party platform. Isn't it time that they were represented? Since when does being right mean being ignored and punished by the Democratic Party?

[FreeStateDemocrat]

26. Not to worry, my bet is he will not survive past NH, at the latest.

[Donna Zen]

27. Ah..but

Hillary will standing after NH, or Bayh or some others favorite party flavor. As long as they are pro-war, then it's okay with the Democratic Party.

[Cascadian]

28. If the Democratic leadership pulls crap like this again.....

then I think it's seriously time for the creation of a new politcal party. I am not kidding. A new politcal party that will continue the core principles of the old Democratic Party as well as a true progressive platform to ensure the creation of a just society. Those in office who still are committed to the true core principles of the Democratic Party should seriously consider joining that new party. I seriously see a split in the party if it continues making the same damned mistakes of playing the "me too" part. It could come by the end of 2008 if things don't turn around for the Democrats. Why would you want to stay on a sinking ship?

I do hope Howard Dean and we the people, his supporters, can pull off bringing the Democratic Party back, but we have a lot of work to do in such a brief, brief time!


John

[Donna Zen]

31. Yes, Howard Dean represents hope...

and there are others, but where will the money go. Aye, there's the rub. Clark is currently focused on 2005-6. That was his message to us last Saturday night, and that was the focus of every presentation that day. If we can help elect some Democrats this cycle, then maybe Howard, Clark and the grassroots will be able to sway the party.

I reject labels and political babble, but right now the so-called stars of the party are leading us away from the "common good" and toward policies of "I've got mine." This is about how much we love this country. Working toward the more perfect union rather than the end of union representation is part of that "common good." Everything that this country needs from better education, health care, and job creation is now starved for funding because of this damn endless war. If the dying and destruction are not enough of a reason to reject those who promoted it, then consider the long term ramifications of borrowing from the Chinese to pay for it.

The grassroots needs to unit in this effort and forget the nibbling at each others heels. If we don't create a party that represents us, we may very crash and burn. There is no guarantee of what will rise from those ashes.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. I have disliked Joseph Biden ever since his disgraceful handling of

the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings and the way Anita Hill was treated, as well as the fact that Angele Wright was never allowed to testify to Thomas' sexual harrassment. Biden to me looks like the typical opportunist politician that I have come to loathe.