Baseline question: Why won't the Admin accept the notion that Rove

[rasputin1952]

MIGHT have done something wrong?

I know this has been hashed over, but the thought does not seem to have become apparent to the RW that Rove could have done something wrong. The blind allegiance is more than just a bit disturbing.

Legal issues aside, why is it that these people refuse to look into the more basic question, who could trust someone that goes out of their way to smear two people with more than 40 years of government service between them?

Rove is a piece of crap, we all agree on that, if you had someone who worked for you that proved to be so sleazy, would you keep him/her on?
The administration looks like a contortionist on speed trying to spin this thing, and the bottom line is, Rove, and apparently Libby, went out of their way to ensure that two people were trashed simply because one of them produced a report that stated that the Administration was wrong in it's belief that Hussein actually received 'yellowcake' from Niger. This is what the whole thing is based on, and all the rest is added on crap.

Point is, Rove/Libby did something reprehensible, and the RW refuses to acknowledge that even the possibility that what was done was simply wrong is beyond the pale.

[bowens43]

1. It probably goes much higher than Rove.

[Tesla]

3. Definately!!!!

They were all on that plane!!!!

I wonder if we will EVER know the whole story....

Hopefully Fitz does already!!!

[rasputin1952]

4. Agreed...but Rove could be 'sacrificed' and the thing would have

blown over.

Of course, if Rove was cut down on this, I believe he has no scruples at all, and would squeal like a pig if he were to be taken down. The Admin might feel this way as welll...:shrug:

[napi21]

6. Sometimes uncompromising loyealty is a bad thing.

Shrub insists that he pledges his undying loyalty to anyone who will do the same to him. I guess that's a good thing for a husband and wife, but it's not good when you're talking about business partners, and that's actually what the Shrub/Rove relationship is. Loyalty and support for those who work for you is very admirable, until someone does something unethical or illegal. Then that loyalty will bring the entire group down, all together!

Although I say it's become a dumb thing for him to do, I'm glad he's sticking with his commitment. I'll be glad to say good-by to all of them at one time!!!!

[rasputin1952]

8. You make a good point about the 'loyalty' thing...

bush, hanging on to Rove at all costs, is like a man hanging on to
a sack of bricks while swimming. This may well pan out to benefit all of us.....but IMO, blind loyalty is a foolish stance to take in most cases...:)

[babylonsister]

2. Perhaps Rove and Libby were just following orders, and

that would make them all culpable. Good reason for the admin not to find fault. And if that's the case, I desperately hope their actions will soon bite them all in their collective butts. Go, Fitzgerald!

[magnolia]

5. Personally....

...I'm sure the whole administration (Bush, Cheney, all of them) know exactly what was done. I think it was a group effort.

[mandomom]

7. Perhaps because Rove may know where all of the skeletons

are buried, who helped him do the digging and keeps a shovel in his closet? Metaphorically speaking.

[bribri16]

21. He not only knows; he put them there. n/t

[emulatorloo]

9. Because Bush had a "Revenge Fit" and ordered Karl to GET WILSON!

and besides that, they never admit they are wrong -- because that is a SIGN OF WEAKNESS.

That's the simple explanation.

Now, a tom tomorrow cartoon from 3.30.04 that bears quoting in yr thread about their tactics:

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=16674

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Did you miss this post ? Excellent - ties Condi in...

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/20/16340/8649

[rasputin1952]

11. This goes a little beyond the admin in the denial arena...It is the entire

Right Wing that is in denial. Not one of them will come in and say that the possibility exists, that Rove did something that was in the least bit wrong.

As I said earlier, forget the legal aspects....there is a basic lapse of any type of ethical behavior here. What Rove/Libby did was immoral; and this from the "Party of Morality"...:eyes:

I think bush/Cheney are involved, but I have no proof. At the least, they knew about events immediately after the 'outing'. It is the blind obedience of the RW that is far more disturbing than anything else. Having failed to see all of the failures of the bush admin previously, when something as glaring as this pops up, they still stay on the fast bus to hell....:shrug:

[Nothing Without Hope]

12. They KNOW Rove is a criminal. They LIKE it. And Bush & Cheney refuse

to accept that they can't have absolutely anything and anyone they want. They are bullies who have gotten their way by attacking and distracting and lying and they believe it will always work for them.

Besides, Karl wouldn't like to be cut loose to go to prison, he's vicioiusly vindictive, and he could sink them ALL with what he knows.

[rasputin1952]

18. I agree they know they are criminals; what is sad, is that they don't

possess the moral compass that allows them comprehend that what they are doing is wrong. This is a serious flaw throughout this administration. It is hard to understand how these people can sleep at night. They are truly evil.

[Nothing Without Hope]

19. The truly evil people sleep very well indeed. The advantage of sociopathy.

They don't understand us, either. As Cicero said two thousand years ago:

It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good.
-Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

Hitler knew this and took advantage of it:

In view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big.

Such a falsehood will never enter their heads and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others; yes, even when enlightened on the subject, they will long doubt and waver, and continue to accept at least one of these causes as true.

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, part I chapter X

Believe me, Bush gets nice, restful sleep every night. He's not bothered at all by the criimes, the murders, the horrors. As long as they don't threaten HIM, he doesn't give a damn.

[rasputin1952]

22. I have often thought that for someone who calls himself a 'christian', he

has repeatedly failed to acknowledge that the most often mentioned 'sin', or failure of humanity, is that of hypocrisy.

I cannot fathom how anyone who considers him/herself, 'enlightened', (regardless of religious moral stature), has not understood that hypocrisy is the single greatest barrier to a fuller life for all of humanity.

I am not so naive to believe that all people are good at heart, there are many evil people in the world. But the evil seems to be magnified when presented under the guise of some kind of 'moral link' to a religious aspect.

Yes, bush sleeps well at night; he is tucked in with the thought that he is correct in all he does...right down to the point of destroying thousands of lives in an unjust war. He does not comprehend that al-Qaeda is alive and thriving, simply because he decided to go into Iraq, as opposed to getting bin-Laden and his thugs.

[Eloriel]

23. Absolutely. Rove couldn't be where he is without their approval

and complicity, if not putting him UP to all that he's done over the years.

[Armstead]

13. They can't admit human fallibility because they are so rigid

There's something about the right wing psyche that can never admit to either doubts or questioning of oneself or rethinking anything.

It's probably a deep-down desire for certainty in life.

That philosophical underpinning is probably at the heart of the difference between a liberal and a conservative. Liberals probably question too much, while conservatives cling to predetermined answers too much.

[rasputin1952]

15. Both questioning too much and clinging onto predetermined answers

result in a complete breakdown of the process where things get done.

Thee appears to be no obvious middle ground. Heels are dug in, and neither side is about to blink.

[underpants]

17. BINGO! Never show weakness NEVER admit defeat or error

Anyone who has served in the military has seen this before- the first rule of NCO's- YOU ARE NEVER WRONG

It is part of the command and control structure. You can never let your underlying know that you even could be wrong. The base eats it up too.

[K8-EEE]

14. They Are All In On It And Their Followers Are Cultists

Literally I am convinced Freeper types are a cult.

No matter HOW many times they are wrong -- they have been brainwashed/wired that they can't be wrong, so the blame is always deflected.

They cannot mess with this insane mindset as infallability, even in the face of the quagmires they are creating, is the basis of their cult, that's why even with this entire Iraq mess, that's turned out NOTHING like any of them predicted, GWB cannot think of ONE thing he'd do differently.

It's like Rev Moon saying, oh I really blew it, they think they are little Gods and if the results don't pan out it's somebody else's fault, even though they did everything the way they wanted to do it. It blows my mind. No accountablility at all for BushCo.

[rasputin1952]

16. The neo-cons are indeed a cult. They are not about to

give in to anything but the 'mantra'.

They believe themselves to be above reproach...how sad that people would feel infallible and not have the common decency to understand that all people make mistakes. Those that understand this, and learn from it, are the exception rather than the rule....:(

[ComerPerro]

20. Same reason they wont admit or acknowledge any other mistakes

[Tippy]

24. Because Republicans are God's gift to the world

And Liberals are worse then Satin himself...It took years but we let them define us....

Repukes know their exhaulted leader has lied repeatedly to them and they still give him free pass...to them lies are nothing as Rove has said time and time again...THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS...

[rasputin1952]

25. Machievelli 101....sad but true in this instance...but when the 'end'

is the destruction of the very thing you are charged w/protecting, evil is running rampant; the means becomes irrelevant.

Sort of like seeing a parasite that destroys the host, therefore setting up it's own destruction. There is no purpose other that destruction.