What exactly are we fighting?

[Skidmore]

A "war on terror"? An "insurgency"? Providing footsoldiers for small gangs of thugs headed by *, Osama, and a few corporate thugs? What are we fighting? Would we all be better served to stick these few people in a cage and sell tickets to watch them fight to the end? I'd buy tickets for that, I think.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. In 2002, when * first started his 'axis of evil' crap, I suggested that

he and Saddam engage in duel. It seemed to me that * had a personal thing about Iraq and that it was not in the best interest of the country nor me to participate.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CJCRANE]

3. But Islam

isn't fighting you.

150,000 American soldiers are in Iraq.

No Iraqi soldiers in America.

Who is the aggressor?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skidmore]

8. Have you noticed that the list of things we fight for daily

you enumerated are also under assault here by our own fundamentalists. I lived in the ME for a little more than a decade. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism--regardless how or where you pray. I have no use for it anywhere. How does it make the Christian fundamentalists less threatening to you just because they would prefer to just to strip you of your rights? It's a short step from legal death to demanding physical death for the same infractions. BTW, I do know that in the Islamic world there are many good and decent people who are, like most Americans, just trying to live their lives. Unfortunately, the insane are running the asylums worldwide.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skidmore]

17. Christians historically have found plenty of rationale

for killing nonbelievers AND check out old St. Paul on tips for how to keep women in line. As it has been practiced, Christianity is not democratic at all--except perhaps in the afterlife. We're all equal in death.

BTW, I have worn my share of hejab and lived the life of a woman in an Islamic culture. There is good and bad in every culture and both are operationalized through individuals. I'm not speaking from ignorance of culture.

[CJCRANE]

18. How many muslim countries have you been to?

You're just making blanket statements. If you want to live in a world of fear that's your choice.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Funny, it's sounds just about like the Bible to me. The Bible talks

a bit about those who 'shun' the lord and sin. Replace 'unbelievers' with 'sinners' or if you're a fundamentalist, replace 'unbelievers' with 'unsaved', and they say about the same type of thing.

I am not at war with Islam. I am not at war with Iraqis. I see a defense against acts of terrorism along the lines of the UK response to 7/7. Most of it is police and or intelligence work. We should have kept the armies at home!

[Rainbow gatherer]

9. Yes, fundamentalists want a one-world Islamic planet.

And that scares me. Will Europe's progress on social issues be turned back as Europeans shrink in numbers but Muslims grow in places like the Netherlands and France? I do not look forward to Sharia law spreading around the world.

[Skidmore]

11. Christian and Islamic fundamentalists both seek the same thing

and would both gladly return the world to the 14th century, socially and legally. Having experienced both, I want neither. Where you and I diverge is that I see our own homegrown fundamentalists as equally threatening to free society.

[CJCRANE]

20. The fact is

that under a continuation of Clinton's policies muslims would have slowly become more westernised due to trade and communication (yes, even muslim kids like Eminem).

But if you go about torturing people and blowing their countries to shit they're not gonna be happy about and they will become more extreme as a reaction.

[CJCRANE]

10. I'm sorry to hear I about your experience

but I've lived in a muslim country and know gay muslims and also a lot of muslims who live in the UK very happily and not experienced any of what you say.

I think the muslims have a lot more to be scared of than you:

What the 19 hijackers to America was terrible but compare that to what the 200,000 American troops + 1000's of cruise missiles ("shock & awe" etc) etc have done to Iraq and you'll see what I mean.

[kentuck]

13. Are you saying they hit NYC and DC because they were "liberal"??

You will need to explain that further. It sounds a little bit out there...if I might say... :)

[DCWageSlave]

15. Because they are big targets

But all the biggest targets in the US - and the entire western world, for that matter, are big cities, almost every one of which is far more liberal than their surrounding suburbs and rural areas.

[Skidmore]

19. Maybe you should leave DC and visit the hinterlands.

We have a few liberals out here in the sticks. In fact, I've heard a bit more enlightened discourse from some of our local yokels on peoples from the ME than I've read some responses in this thread.

[garthranzz]

16. YES!

:applause:

And while we're at it, here's a quote from Ronald Reagen that Shrub ought to read - oh, I forgot, he only reads about goats.


"History teaches that wars begin when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap."

Address to the nation, January 16, 198

[Skidmore]

5. I would propose we are fighting anyone who could be manipulated

into being willing to fight us because

1) we needed a new enemy to replace the USSR
2) the military needed funds to make new killing toys and there is no peace dividend
3) the security industry needed to create markets
4) the oil barons needed to wring every last drop (pun intended) out of the marketplace before oil goes the way of the dinosaurs
5) people who want power are too self-absorbed to care about the majority of folks who don't have power, wealth, or ambition.

We found willing fighters in the Islamic world because we've spent decades screwing with them in our geopolitical machinations.

[tubbacheez]

4. In rough economic times, there is an untapped reservoir of machismo.

Framing things in warlike terms calls up those latent macho feelings in the population.

Archetypically speaking, if the unemployed inner-hunter cannot bring home a big buck to feed his family, going off to fight some bad guys starts to sound like a fun way to flex some muscle.

This isn't exclusively a male phenomenon either. In a culture where independence is valued, any loss of confidence in one's independence could set up a breeding ground for such feelings.

[FogerRox]

6. I am fighting the BUSH crime family

[rman]

12. A neocon corporatist theocratic alliance. n/t

-

[bloom]

21. Yep.

"We" don't fight "terrorists" even when we know about them.

If anything - we're creating them more than likely.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4153626