John Kerry is...

[WilliamPitt]

Poll question: John Kerry is...

[krkaufman]

1. abstain

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. Never forget who the real enemy is....

Other Democratic Candidates!
(sarcasm ends)

Who seriously thinks John Kerry is a bad man who needs to be broken?

[emulatorloo]

5. GWB thinks he is bad and needs to be broken

and GWB is going to by crying to mommy before this is over.

[IndianaGreen]

109. Bush and Kerry are both Skull & Gones

which is not another fraternity nor a benevolent association.

Do yourself a favor and do a Google search "Skull and Bones" and you will get a primer in all the crimes, the coups, the underhanded deals, that the members of this cultist Order have been involved in over the years, including financing the Third Reich.

[jfxgillis]

3. How'd you vote Will?

I saw kausfiles quoted a blogger quoting Pter Gammons saying Kerry was the "dirtiest hockey player I ever saw" to which my instant and gut reaction was "Yeah! THAT'S the kind of candidate we need!"

Pro-Kerry, I voted.

[WilliamPitt]

4. As the generator of the poll

it would be unethical for me to reveal my vote. You can probably guess, though. :)

I will say this, though. If 'bad man' wins, it'll be an interesting footnote to my 'DU conventional wisdom' poll a few days ago.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

6. can you say

Scull and bones?

[WilliamPitt]

9. Can you spell 'Skull'

:)

[OffWithTheirHeads]

23. not this early in the a.m.

have not even had coffee yet

[WilliamPitt]

25. Just getting my first in me

You know I was teasing, right? I hate it when people zap others on spelling stuff, and mean it.

[MoonRiver]

33. Sometimes I'm in too big of a hurry to do spell check.

It has caught a lot of my bloopers though. :-)

[ulysses]

7. other

"...now the frontrunner whose supporters should get used to a little more pressure."

[Screaming Lord Byron]

11. Welcome to DU, where we destroy a different candidacy every day!

[WilliamPitt]

15. I'm loving DU right now

Kerry winning or losing in NH for me is far less entertaining than all this. :)

[ulysses]

19. this is different from...when?

DU's always been red in tooth and claw.

I'm curious though, Will - how many folks do you think want to "break" Kerry politically?

[WilliamPitt]

21. Two names leap to mind

but it would be inappropriate to say them. Trust me - I was as surprised as you would be...or maybe not, given the names.

[calimary]

106. I sure don't want to break him. If he's the guy, I want him as strong

and invincible as possible.

But I STILL have my questions. I will certainly support him if he becomes our guy. Without hesitation. But I'm not sure my heart will be in it.

I'm still concerned about why he hasn't made much, if ANY, use of Joseph Wilson and Rand Beers.

I'm still concerned, after having watched some of him on CSPAN on Saturday (not all, I had to go take my kid somewhere), that among his campaign speech statements are some VERY uncomfortable openings that he provides for bush to slither right through.

When he says something to the effect of "yes, it's important that we stood up to Saddam," all that does is leave the door open for bush to say - "Whaddya talking about? That's exactly what we did," and much of America will blindly buy it.

He can talk about opposing the recent ream-job on seniors' prescription costs, which is good. But he didn't stick around to VOTE against it. Yes, by the time the vote came, it was a loser, but he could have at least been there to cast a vote for symbolism and the sake of the integrity of his voting record, if nothing else. By the way, EDWARDS DID THE SAME THING. A weakness the republi-CONS can easily exploit.

He can talk about why he voted for the IWR, but I didn't see one indication that, in his explanation, he was willing to use both barrels and say "because george bush LIED to me!"

In fact, I want to hear the phrase "because george bush LIED to me" from all these guys. I wanna hear the "L" word. OVER AND OVER AND OVER until it's pounded into the skulls of everybody in America. I do not see the "go for the jugular" instinct in him yet. I still find myself wondering how badly he really wants to win, and why he's still acting like a gentleman and pulling his punches. The only time he even comes close to rousing anybody is when he appropriates the phrase "Bring it On." But I'm still waiting to see fire in his eyes and from his gut. There HAS to be some. Otherwise the CONS will roll right over him.

I think he deserves the support, and he will get it from me if he's the guy. I'm just STILL so hesitant. I'm TRYING like hell to get behind this guy, and so far, it's TRULY problematic.

[aldian159]

88. Amen to that

n/t

[spooky3]

8. need an "other" choice

[WilliamPitt]

12. Done

[dusty64]

17. Ok then,

I voted "other".

[dusty64]

10. My gut tells

me he does not "deserve" my support, on the other hand I do not think that he is a "bad" man so I really can't vote in this poll. I do want to clarify that I will have no choice but to support him should he win the nomination, the dethroning of our regime remains my number one priority, but I would feel that we could have done better.

[MoonRiver]

13. That's a very narrow range of options!

I voted that he's a good man deserving of support. No way would I say he's a bad man. I don't think he's the best choice for our nominee, however. :-(

[Zynx]

14. Poop

What kind of question is that?

[WilliamPitt]

16. Look at the answers

Apparently, it was a question that needed asking.

[Raven]

18. Kerry, of course!

I went down to Kerry headquarters in Keene yesterday. It was a real zoo. You can feel the excitement and momentum. A busload of older folks (yes, older folks like me!) had come up from Massachusetts to stand outside with signs in -20 windchill. That's dedication. So now I've got my yard sign, bumper stickers and pin and I'm on the volunteer list. :hi:

[vi5]

20. The results of this poll are pathetic....

Honestly, I've been skirting the edges for the past week since the Iowa results and all the resultant whining. But this just makes me embarrased to be a member of this forum. How anyone could consider any of our candidates, let alone one with as staunch a liberal record as Kerry "a bad man that needs to be broken"...even in jest is simply beyond my capacity.

[adadem]

24. You're right

sadly it's just sour grapes by some who blame Kerry for their own candidates failure to win. Personally I think the Kerry supporters at DU have been very low key and not gloating...not so for some other candidate's supporters who need to bash someone else for their own candidate's mistakes.

[ulysses]

27. translation:

"How dare anyone speak ill of my candidate!"

[cthrumatrix]

29. the poll is poorly "choiced".... I agree...i read the "no's" are simply

not pro-Kerry. And in reality ABB.

[Guaranteed]

53. It's a deliberate false dichotomy

It seems as if some people are being deliberately argumentative in response to the choices given to them.

[WilliamPitt]

54. Vote 'Other'

[Guaranteed]

59. Right that's what I did but I think some people

are voting for the nasty one even though they know it isn't true just to be dicks in response.

[kstewart33]

62. I agree

If you read the attacks on this forum against Kerry and omitted Kerry's name, you'd think the target was a right-wing Republican Senator.

Unbelievable.

This is one example about what bothers me so much about Dean. It's everything or nothing at all. It's him or the highway. Very troubling.

[GalleryGod]

85. I Agree. I First Smelled it at a Pitt Appearance in July down in Delaware

A bubbling my way-highway atty-tude!?
Well...we'll see what plays-out.

New Hampshire is freaky.

Your Man in the faculty lounge,:donut:
RE-Reading "The Making of the President 1972":think:
G.G.:smoke:

[markus]

22. Comfort food for uncertain Democrats

That does not, however, make him the best or the most viable candidate for the general election.

Quick Oppo Research Profile in JK for POTUS directs:

Issue
War Nam service Agains GW1
Undermining CiC
/ endangers troops
Anti-defense $s
Terror Proposed Gutting
intel $s
Liberal Rank > than SEK
Spender
Family Pro-abortion
Pro special rights
for homosexuals
History Dukkakis' LtG!!!
(n.b. check on
Willie Horton)

Let's just be clear: Kerry is not the Fix-All candidate who solves what some perceive to be the problem on Dean or other candidates.

Hell, give me 20+ years of a voting record and I can get you to support the impeachment of your own mother. That's one reason members of Congressd don't do well in these elections.

Hell, just give me one good Omnibus spending bill and I can pretty much make any member you want look pretty ugly.

I still think Dean's anti-Washington stand and Edwards suave populism are both potentially more effective come the fall.

[waldenx]

26. I cast a vote

in the memory of my friends who died in Iraq because of John Kerry's gamble.

[diamondsoul]

28. Yikes! This is damned depressing!

I voted for one, good man who deserves the support he gets.

Jeez, people, a 30 year record of mainly supporting progressive causes and he "deserves to be broken"?? :wtf:

[boxster]

51. Frontrunner disease.

It apparently makes the patient turn evil, regardless of their record to the contrary.

[jsw_81]

30. A good man who will probably be our presidential nominee

Who in their right mind would vote for the "he's a bad man who should be broken" one?!?

[xultar]

31. I don't like this poll. n/t

[Leilani]

97. I agree

It's a silly poll, with 2 silly options.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

32. Now come on, Shelley.

Dare I suggest this has as much/more
to do with resentment against the querier
than against the Kerry? Or dare I not?

[Iverson]

34. It's surreal.

I'd always thought that candidates' positions were what mattered, not this good man/bad man nonsense. Maybe I was wrong. Here's a suggestion for the next important poll.

John Kerry is ...

1. a cherry cheesecake with a cup of black coffee
2. Nader's penis (n.b.- "greenis" is an acceptable replacement term.
3. other

America wants to know!

:crazy: :crazy:

[ulysses]

36. LOLOL!

Come now, Iverson - we all know that Nader's penis is, in fact, a *strawberry* cheesecake with a latte.

[WilliamPitt]

37. greenis

LMAO

[boxster]

40. Too funny.

Option three could be: John Kerry is a croissant!

We have to get that French insinuation in there, ya know? :silly:

[MoonRiver]

43. No, no, no.

It was unanimously decided yesterday that John Kerry is fettuccine alfredo.

[boxster]

45. Who says he can't be both?

Need a balanced meal here, ya know.

:silly:

[MoonRiver]

46. I think we're balanced, and, fair!

Let's see, we've got our main course: fettuccine alfredo; our salad, Nader's greenie peni; and our desert (several in fact). :D

[boxster]

50. Dessert: éclairs for everyone!

Ok, so the éclair and croissant thing was about Clark, but hey, we're equal opportunity here.

[brainshrub]

35. Good man, but when the cookies were on the table

he did the politically expedient thing and supported the war. Don't give me that: "Bush lied to me" crap. Kerry wasn't born with his head in the sand.

Whoever runs against Bush will win; His hold on power is slipping by every day and everyone knows it. We progressives have an opportunity to elect someone who will support run-off voting and re-write the rules of political discourse. If Dean can win this election with donations of $50, the corporate-controlled political process is over. (That's why the big media conglomerates keep airing the Dean Scream...Dean is their worst nightmare!)

If Kerry wins the nomination I will be happy to support him.

[boxster]

38. I'll take Skull & Bones for $200, Alex.

Hehe.

Geez, I can't believe how many S&B posts there have been since Kerry because the frontrunner (again).

Perhaps you should have split this up into candidate supporters. A large number of the S&B posts seem to be coming from the supporters of one candidate.

Apparently, the posters of said threads are voting in your poll!

[Iverson]

42. I'm so sorry ...

... you didn't state that as a question.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

44. Which candidate would that be?

Frankly, the S&B thing really disturbes me. If it's good enough for Prescott, Poppy and Commander Codpiece, it is something I would prefer my presidential candidate not be involved in. Sort of like Bob Jones U.

Also, I don't think you can guess which candidate I would like to see get the nod.

[GalleryGod]

86. YUP! Whatever happened to "I'm not gonna use my wife as a political prop"?

HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Just wonderin'???

Hangin' Out with the kids in the S.U.B.:donut:
RE-reading the "Making of the President 1972"
G.G.:beer:

[THUNDER HANDS]

39. He's a good man

And in high heels, he's a damn fine woman. :D

[isbister]

41. other

a man who has within him the potential to become the greatest President this country has seen in a very long time (I know some of the past few Presidents have not raised the bar very high)

[Jacobin]

47. Push Poll

Fourth choice:

"A senator from MA who will be too easily painted as a 'gun control' MA liberal in the mold of T Kennedy and who will lose the vote of the heartland for the Democratic Party".

FortheInvasionAgainstTheInvasionWouldHaveDoneItDifferentlySaddamGoneAgainstTheWarForTheInvasionAgainstGWIForInvasion.

Zigs when he should Zag and Zags when he should Zig. A chameleon when we need leadership.

[OKNancy]

48. Other: A good man

who can't win in the general election.
Given we have four "good men", I'll take the one who can win.

[dreissig]

49. Kerry's Duplicity

My problem with Kerry is that you can't nail him down - his words never match his actions. Did he support IWR or did he oppose it? Did he throw back his medals, or did he keep them? How did he manage to get out of Vietnam after only three months?

You never get a straight answer from John Kerry. Depending on the situation he'll tell you what you want to hear. When in doubt, mumble . . .

[Blue_Roses]

65. I didn't see him mumble

yesterday when he was talking to Chris Wallace on FOX, if anything I was really impressed with how he answered the questions--to the point. Chris Wallace kept interrupting him which was obviously used to try and throw Kerry off (or he was just being rude like all the Fox commentators are), but I was extremely impressed with how Kerry handled his questions. He didn't leave any of Chris Wallace's questions left open. The one thing I did notice was how tired he (Kerry) looked, as I'm sure all the candidates are after so much relentless campaigning.

After the explanation of why he voted for the Iraq war, I felt better and even though that has NO basis on who I vote for, it cleared up things for him and those who TRY to paint his vote as "pro-war" or "reckless." To the contrary, as he said yesterday, and as we say here in the south, "that dog won't hunt," much longer. It is so clear Bush misled us going to this war---even though MOST of us here knew he was doing so. Kerry voted to allow Bush to use force ONLY after he had done certain "promises" first and Bush lied and failed on these. That is why he voted to NOT hand Bush a check for 87 billion RECKLESS dollars. It's easy to play politics and sway things when the truth ISN'T addressed, but from what I saw of Kerry yesterday, he has no problem addressing the questions that are bound to continue...

It doesn't matter what they voted, 'cause Bush was "gonna get his war on," anyway.

I honestly think these candidates are doing a great job and I like the fact that the "selection" is ripe, not to mention it has the WH doing a "tap dance" on who to bash next--it definitely keeps them wondering--something good for strategy.

:kick:

[Guaranteed]

52. That's an unfair dichotomy

I like John Kerry. He has an excellent voting record, up to the last couple of years.

What I hold against John Kerry is that, at least in the way that I feel, he abandoned us when it mattered most. As a very intelligent man, he knew, I'm sure, that the Bush administration was taking advantage of 9/11 politically, and as a supposed "leader" of the Democratic Party, he shouldn't have stood for it. If he had, he would have had my wholehearted support. I wouldn't have even thought about voting for anyone else.

It is times like those (and here I'm thinking of the period between Feb 2002 and last summer) that show who the true leaders of our party really are. And it doesn't seem like we have many true leaders in our party at all. That's why I'm supporting

HOWARD DEAN, 2004!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

55. Nothing but a ruling class infiltrater

I for one want no part of him.

[leyton]

56. John Kerry is what I think of when I think of

statesman. Maybe it's just his demeanor or where he's from, but I really like the guy. I also respect his vote on IWR - I trust that as a Senator he gets more information than I do and that he voted his conscience.

[Egnever]

90. You are fooling yourself

[Cooley Hurd]

57. I'm a Dean supporter but could get behind Kerry if...

...he gets the nomination. However, I would feel better about it IF he would admit his IWR vote was a mistake. I understand that he felt it was politically expediant to vote in favor of it but I would hope, in hindsight, he now understands that his vote was a mistake and admit so...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. Boy, I hope more votes change this result for the better

as it is the "I hate John Kerry" vote is distrubingly high.

[jpgray]

60. Wow, this is really depressing. :-( (nt)

[Armstead]

61. Other

A good man who has been too caught up in Washington for too long and lost his "edge" and is too chummy with the DLC/Clintonistas to really be a catalyst for change.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. That about sums it up.

[demodewd]

111. Hey!

Hey! Quit cloning my thoughts! :)

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

64. We might need one more option

Politics as usual.

I think Kerry is a decent man, I just don't see that he's the one to institute any change in the way things happen in Washington if he would win the general election. He strikes me as too comfortable with the status quo.

edited for poor html skills

[TopesJunkie]

66. Unelectable --

[Poseidon]

67. He is a good man

He deserves the support he receives.

[Terwilliger]

68. kind of a trap question

good or bad? no happy medium?

[Walt Starr]

69. a Washington Insider

who will probably win the nomination but will not excite me to do more than possibly vote for him after going over every last possible alternative.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. So is that "other" for you?

I'm having trouble here sorting out this poll.

[Walt Starr]

71. When I voted early this morning

there was no "other"

I do not consider Kerry to be a "good man". Go figure.

[Progressive420]

72. Other

he is a good man but he doesnt deserve my support

[edzontar]

73. Other: Least likely to win against Bush

nt

[Indiana Democrat]

74. Bullshit question.

What's your agenda?

[WilliamPitt]

76. To see how many people

would look at a narrowly defined question and still feel compelled to vote for the political destruction of John Kerry.

[Iverson]

79. hmmm

What proportion will fail to see that as transparent and vote in a way just to egg you on?

I didn't, of course, but the inflammatory mentality does exist.

[Indiana Democrat]

81. I voted for "Bad Man"...

...Just because this is a bullshit poll. And I'm a Kerry supporter.

[Native]

91. In other words, a Dean vs. Kerry poll (supporters, that is)? n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

77. Will's a Kerry man

the bullshit is people implying Kerry is IN ANY WAY a bad man.

[jumptheshadow]

75. Man

The memory retention of many people on this board is roughly equivalent to the lifespan of a gnat.

Given his lifetime of support for Democratic and liberal causes, how could anybody say that John Kerry is a bad man?

[0007]

78. Yes, John Kerry deseves the support of his supporters.

[Abigail147]

80. Gosh Pitt,

this poll is so transparent. What is your point?

[WilliamPitt]

83. If it is so transparent

why do you need to ask me what my point is?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

89. Well I (for one) can't believe so many here think he's a "bad man"

argh... yes I can. Here.

[mzmolly]

82. "A man who will say anything to get elected"

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089125/
http://slate.msn.com/id/2084753
http://slate.msn.com/id/2094235/

There's lots more. The RNC did an entire paper on this subject in 1986...

[boxster]

84. The RNC?

Wow, the RNC did an entire paper in 1986. What a shock.

So, the "enemy" did a paper on Kerry 18 years ago, and that's supposed to be taken seriously?

In case you haven't noticed, Slate has done articles on gaffes, etc., of all of our candidates.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2085967/

[Ficus]

96. the RNC

does opposition research on everyone.

[genius]

87. I'm for Kucinich but Kerry is probably second best.

However, I like Edwards better than Kerry. I'm voting for Dennis so it doesn't matter.

[Qutzupalotl]

92. He's a good man that we should keep in the Senate.

Where he's done his best work.

He's a good man, his heart's in the right place, and Bush will destroy him after he gets the nomination.

[laruemtt]

93. probably an okay human being

but a politician to the max who CANNOT beat *

[dawn]

94. He's not my first choice, but I think he's a good man. n/t

[Uzybone]

95. Disgusting

31% as of the time I took the poll think Kerry needs to be politically destroyed. Thats sad.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

98. Yes. I'm out of words here

:puke:

[Indiana Democrat]

100. People are voting for that because it's a bullshit poll.

It's nothing but flame bait.

I voted for "Bad Man" and I'm a Kerry supporter.

[WilliamPitt]

101. People don't have to vote at all if the choices are unpalatable

[Justice]

99. Kerry Has Really Disappointed Me

With his very zealous aggressive negative campaigning against Wesley Clark. Kerry seems eager to fuel the fire of the republican smear campaign against Clark.

Kerry will want Democrats to gather around him if he is the nominee. John Kerry is my senator. I am enormously disappointed in his behavior.

[Native]

102. What specifically do you consider to be

"very zealous aggressive negative campaigning"? I'm just curious.

[loyalsister]

103. Confused?

I heard a guy give a talk the other day and he made a statement that reminded me of Kerry. He said that liberals are so broad minded that they sometimes can't take their own side in an argument.
When I see that quality expressed at the level Kerry seems to show, I think it's suitable for a legislator, but I'm not so sure it's what I'm looking for in a president.

[concord]

104. I cannot get past the IWR vote

Kerry is my senator. I've voted for him in every election and when I found he was running for pres, I supported him then too. Then he voted for the resolution. It was a blatant political gamble, in the wrong direction. He lost my vote then, and I've seen nothing since to change my mind, although I have been watching.

I will say I will vote for him if he becomes the Dem candidate; however, I do not believe he can beat bushCo. That is probably why Jay (gack) Severin (local repug clear channel radio jock) was oozing praise for Kerry last week. They know he's beatable.

[curse10]

105. A good man

:-)

And I'm happy to support him

[anti-NAFTA]

107. how about

a bad man who deserves the support he receives because all the other candidates excluding Kucinich are as bad as he is and are less appealing on a personal level?

[reprehensor]

108. In a perfect world...

I wouldn't care about things like this:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/ThisWeek/Kerry_Dean_calls_040117-1.html

This ain't no perfect world.

[reprehensor]

110. Oh dear god...

Or this...
http://www.nydailynews.com/01-26-2004/news/story/158256p-138904c.html

Bill 'o'? WTF?

RNC psyops or what?

[blm]

113. Of course. They've been doing this for decades.

They play Dems against each other to divide the party.

Too many who are new to activism are getting hysterical about these things. Joe Trippi has been one of the biggest tricksters in the last 25 years, yet so many here, even, think he's the most honorable person in the world. hahahahahahaha

[Loren645]

112. To use Kerry's jargon: John Kerry is under the top.

Wesley Clark is the top.