Are any strategies available to Fitzgerald to prevent Rove's pardoning?

[The Night Owl]

If Rove is indicted, is there anything Fitzgerald can do to prevent or nullify a presidential pardon for Rove? Or, does a presidential pardon trump everything?

For instance, could Fitzgerald cut a deal in which Rove, once convicted, avoids jail by having his boss agree to not pardon him?

[SaveElmer]

1. I don't think so...

I think the constitution is pretty clear that the President has a blanket pardoning power.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Unless you are impeached

and any government official can be impeached.

A president can not pardon anyone who has been impeached.

[SaveElmer]

6. Are you sure? Rove did not have to be confirmed...

So I don't think impeachment is an option for him. And actually, even if it were an option, he would have to be impeached and convicted!

[dansolo]

19. Impeachment is only removal from office

Any criminal convictions would have to occur separate from an impeachment, and a pardon is always available in those cases.

[Tamyrlin79]

2. NO.

The president has the power and there is no oversight for it.

The only thing staying Bush's hand is that the political ramifications of the pardon would simply be too grave.

[indepat]

7. W has virtual absolute power as evidenced by his ExOs, a lockstepping

Congress, an accommodating Supreme Court, a shilling MSM, and a largely adulating or indifferent electorate. We'll see if the dice are rolled and what they come up.

[spotbird]

23. That won't happen.

That only happens to Democrats.

[havocmom]

4. If he manages to make a case against all of the criminals...

that'd be what it takes, for every last one of them to be convicted

[QuettaKid]

5. .

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. Upping the political cost is about all he can do

And a pardon may have other dangers for Bush. For example, once given a pardon, I don't know if Rove can take the 5th if called to testify about related matters and would not be protected from perjury after the pardon.

[Last Lemming]

9. Don't you have to be convicted?

before he can pardon you?

No, I guess not--Nixon you know.

But still. . .

[Last Lemming]

10. Won't be just Rove

that will need pardoning.

[mrdmk]

26. This was argued before in 1974, of course it was the Republicans

doing the pardoning.

The person pardon was Richard Milhouse Nixon and the person doing the pardoning was Gerald Ford. Of course there was a rancor concerning this matter. The question was, "How can someone be pardoned if he was never proved to be guilty"? The feeling was that he had to be guilty in the first place and left it at that.

The second time this was done again was in 1992 and of course, once again, without a doubt, it was the Republicans. The person pardoned was Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger and the person doing the pardoning was George H.W. Bush Sr. This pardon had more cognations due to the fact that Mr. Weinberger may have known more than anybody about Mr. Bush Sr. involvement with money laundering, gun running, drug smuggling and subversion of congress. Of course this is just speculation because Mr. Bush Sr. also sealed the records (very ugly).

To answer a question from an earlier post, if the President knew of a crime being committed and did nothing, this will be grounds for impeachment, and the president will not be able to do any pardoning while going though that process. If the president does survive the impeachment process, yes he can pardon. If the president quits the presidency before the impeachment process begins or is impeached, obviously not. The scary thing is that his successor can pardon the ex-president the same as Gerald Ford did for Richard Nixon.

[skip fox]

11. He might have to do it to keep Rove from talking. (He'd want to anyway.)

:toast:

[DuckFan4ever]

12. Pardon power so broad....

that I believe the President could issue a pardon for himself if he wanted.

[atre]

13. YES

Convict him of a state-based crime. The President'spardon power extends only to criminal liability for federal crimes ("offenses against the United States"). It would not extend, for example, to an obstruction of justice charge arising under the law of the State of Virginia, with jurisdiction based on the effects of the crime being felt within the state of Virginia.

For any law students or future lawyers out there, be sure to remember this, because it's tested just about every year as a Con Law question on the MBE.

[imenja]

16. are you sure?

Weren't some of Clinton's pardons for state crimes?
Of course, Rove works in DC rather than a state. That would be a great stretch, and then Fitzgerald is a federal prosecutor.

[atre]

18. Yes

Is there another lawyer out there who can substantiate my argument? I know the text plainly says the President can issue pardons for "offences against the United States, except in the case of impeachment," and I know what all of the major Bar Exam Review Courses tell me, but I have a feeling that the idea of an unlimited pardon power is like one of those urban legends, impossible to convince a true believer of its falsity.

As for the situs of the crime, it may not be possible (it would depend on the relevant statutes in Virginia or Maryland), but one permissible basis of criminal justice jurisdiction is the place where a crime had its primary effect, which might not be in DC.

EDIT: Wikipedia confirms: "The pardon power of the president extends only to offenses cognizable under federal law; however, the governors of most states have the power to grant pardons or reprieves for offenses under state criminal law." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon

EDIT2: On second thought, this isn't really a strategy available to Fitz, since he is a federal prosecutor. It would be up to state district attorney's office to prosecute the claim.

[imenja]

20. ok, I'll take your word for it

I would have thought it difficult for Clinton to find so many federal felons to pardon. Quite a feat.

[spotbird]

25. Does Fitzgerald have the authority to prosecute

state crimes?

[ncteechur]

14. Can rove be pardoned if bush is implicated in the scandal???

[imenja]

15. the deal would have to be with Bush

because the president has constitutional power to pardon anyone he wants.
It's a remnant of monarchical rule.

[dansolo]

17. A pardon would be political suicide

If Rove is convicted, and then pardoned, then Republicans won't be able to run away from Bush fast enough. You'll see Rove's face in every campaign commercial. The earliest that Rove would be pardoned would be after the 2006 elections, unless Bush thinks that he can stop any further investigations with a pardon.

[The Night Owl]

22. A lot of Bush administration decisions should have been political suicide.

A lot of Bush administration decisions and actions should have been political suicide. And yet, there they still are. A massively criminal administration doing whatever the hell it pleases.

Hell, the Bush administration itself should have been political suicide. Maybe it will be.

[Pallas180]

21. Yeah. Indicting his boss would prevent a pardon

:bounce:

[spotbird]

24. Could he hold some charges back

until Bush is out of office?

I wonder what the statute of limitations is on these crimes.