Why do so many of you give Joe Biden a hard time?

[biscodawg]

Say what you will about him but I think he's a good guy, who gets a bad break. He did after all have a large part to do with the Americans with Disabilities Act. He also was part of why theres no such thing as Justice Bork. But go on hatin' and all because he is not the perfect democrat. But then again, who is?

I LIKE JOE :)

[Son of California]

1. I like Joe too

sometimes I think everyone wants these politicians to be the ultimate Liberal, vegan, tree-hugging crusaders. You know, not everyone is so fanatical about forcing their conception of freedom on everyone else.

[fujiyama]

2. Most of us

were disgusted by his bending over backwards for the credit card industry. The bankruptcy bill which was passed will hurt many in the working lower and middle class.

And we've caught on his schtick now, which is basically talking a good talk at times (or simply talking inconsistantly - the guy loves the camera), but in the end not following through.

[BlueWolff]

4. Ditto and

He is an arze kisser to the Corporations!

[biscodawg]

10. well he is from Delaware

isn't that the credit card capitol? I'm sure a lot of constituents in his state depend on that industry for their jobs. So maybe he is doing the work of the people that elected him?

[fujiyama]

19. Yes it is the credit card capital

but this bill really doesn't help the workers in the credit card industry. Most of them aren't rich (hell at this point many are losing their jobs to outsourcing and mergers anyways) and if they are similar to the average American (and I know Deleware's a weird state but they're still American), they're burned by large financial debt (in many cases due to health reasons).

Biden has tried shoving this shit through for many years. He tried to during the Clinton administration, but luckilly Clinton stopped it.

[Skittles]

3. um..........because he sucks?

I don't expect people to be tree-huggers but I draw the line at them actively supporting fascist bush policies

[givemebackmycountry]

5. two reasons

He voted for the Bankruptcy Bill and he was the originator of that stupid "Rave" act.

[dave502d]

6. He hurt the little people over the bankruptcy bill .

[gulfcoastliberal]

7. I don't like how he pushed for the MBNA drafted bankruptcy bill

I don't need to declare bankruptcy, but I think it's pretty damned morally bankrupt to push for a law that prevents people from getting a clean slate while corporate bankruptcies continue unabated - often costing people their life savings.

Bidens top corporate contributer?

1 MBNA Corp $90,075

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00001669&cycle=2002

No one is expecting a perfect politician but such blatant quid pro quo is really disgusting. So much for sticking up for the little guy/most vulnerable/poor of our society. That's great he did some good things years ago but his actions lately have been reprehensible.

[bvar22]

8. Hair Plugs...

AND the Credit Card Thing.
NO excuses for either.

[1932]

9. I think because he's a bigger friend to big business than to middle class

americans and americans who work.

[Blue_In_AK]

11. He oozes "smarm" n/t

[BornaDem]

58. Yes! And he is sanctimonius besides. n/t

[wli]

12. there are a lot of important issues the DLC crew is going wrong with

For instance, the USA PATRIOT Act, which violates at least four Constitutional Amendments.

In general, there is what appears to be a serious problem with what appears to be a "fifth column" within the Democratic party trying to set up a parallel leadership structure for the Democratic Party, similar to how the neoconservatives have set up parallel leadership structures in other affairs (e.g. the Federalist Society to displace the American Bar Association). There is a clear and present danger of a neoconservative takeover of the Democratic Party in this manner.

Furthermore, it's quite clear that the Democrats in this "fifth column" are associating intimately with Republican leadership, to such extents there is an appearance of collusion (e.g. certain Democrats attending Republican fundraising events on a regular basis).

[NMDemDist2]

36. can you back up that last part with a link? I'd be very interested who

you are speaking of....

And don't give me the "DLC" broadbrush, just any links or sources for "certain Democrats attending Republican fundraising events on a regular basis" would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[wli]

57. it was another thread here on DU

They were complaining about Feinstein or someone with a similar looking name ("stein" or some such in it, starting with an 'F') showing up at a White House party. I'll update this reply after a little googling.

Googling for "Feinstein Bush White House dinner" (unquote it for the google text entry) works.

[dbonds]

13. Didn't he also sign some of the PNAC documents?

[Pallas180]

24. No. Gotta know your history. You can google PNAC doc on

net so you'll know who the neo cons are

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. Yep. You gotta know your history. And your PNAC'ers.

And Joe is one of them.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

This may be the only PNAC document he has signed FOR NOW, but that is still ONE TOO MANY to be tolerated. Who the PNAC'ers are and what they represent (global fascism) was well known long before Biden willingly attached his name to their bullshit.

[Pallas180]

34. AntiCoup - the PNAC doc to me is that one where they set out their plans

for domination of the world...befoe the dimson became resident.

I didnt know they were still writing letters and pronouncements. 2004 and there's Joe Biden. That assh---.

No wonder his vibes are so bad

Thanks.

[KittyWampus]

62. Why Allow Yourself To Be Suckered By A Dishonest DU'er Who Misrepresents

Biden and the document he signed?

DU really makes me ill some days.

[KittyWampus]

61. No Biden Is NOT A PNAC'er So Stop Spreading That Debunked Lie

just because he signed onto one relatively reasonable piece of paper doesn't mean squat.

Your total lack of discrimination and disregard of the content of that document says volumes.

[Dogmudgeon]

14. I'm not a big fan

He's done a lot of things I really don't like. But I'm not given to gripe loudly about the petty stupidities that Democrats like Biden can commit when we have a number of real whackos at the helm of our Ship of State.

But he's a Democrat, and votes the way I like more often than not. If you think he's a good guy, and you know him better, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Besides, I could be wrong about him.

--p!

[Skittles]

15. UM

voting for that Corporate-whore-bankruptcy-bill was NOT a "petty stupidity" - it was anti-poor and middle-class, anti-worker, anti-decency and it STUNK.

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Wasn't aware of that vote

There was a whole lot more wrong with it than met the eye, too.

I think calling it a "petty stupidity" is actually fairly accurate. It was stupid, and it reflected the pettiness of the Congress. Including Biden.

Nope, I'm still not a big fan of Biden's.

--p!

[LiviaOlivia]

32. Biden is now a pure CORPORATIST.

Kennedy got better with age. Biden did not.

I used to admire him. No longer.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. His disgraceful handling of the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing

with the way he treated Anita Hill and the fact he never called Angela Wright who could have testified to Thomas' repeated acts of sexual harrassment in the workplace completely turned me off on the guy. Since then, I've been willing to let him win back my confidence in him but I've seen nothing to get excited about.

[kath]

28. Yes, I can't forgive him for giving us Clarence Thomas.

His handling of the hearing was totally disgraceful.

Plus he's a sell-out spineless weenie, like most of 'em.

[liberaliraqvet26]

17. Because they don't like anyone who strays...

ever so slightly away from the far left, even when it's politically necessary. Even when it's free votes they vow vengeance on them. I like Joe too. I didn't like the bankruptcy bill either but im not about to beat up a good and loyal dem for one or two bad votes.

[fujiyama]

20. The problem is

those one or two bad votes (and boy is that an understatment), were EXTREMELY bad votes that have negative consequences for millions of people.

I'm sorry, the guy opposed exceptions for veterans, those declaring due to medical problems. Some things are just very hard to forgive.

[SaveElmer]

35. Amen...

Biden has been a champion of Democratic causes for over 20 years...he casts a couple of votes people don't like and all of a sudden he is a traitor...

I swear, it seems as though every Democratic politician has been called traitor or DINO by someone on this board at one time or another...

[Pallas180]

18. because he's two faced. Sometimes he sounds like a democrat &

sometimes he sounds like Bush's best buddy.

[liberaliraqvet26]

21. its called politics

[ncteechur]

23. You never know exactly where he stands.

He is tough on some things and a pansy on others. He is just not consistent. I like Biden when he is Biden and speaking truth to power. I don't like him when he candy-coats things and tries to be conciliatory.

[dansolo]

25. He is too full of himself

He is a blowhard, who seriously overestimates his own intelligence. He is a war hawk and is in bed with the finacial companies. I am not looking for him to be a raging liberal, but I do want him to think about someone other than himself.

[Zorra]

27. His support of the republican bankruptcy bill was inexcusable.

He heartlessly voted against amendment 28, and from this vote it was clear to me that when push comes to shove, Biden will choose corporate interests over the interests of the American people:

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 28
Kennedy Amdt. No. 28.; To exempt debtors whose financial problems were caused by serious medical problems from means testing.
REJECTED

All Republican Senators voted against these amendments. Democrats voting against Amendment 28 were Biden, Carper, Johnson and Nelson...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/6/63144/06015

Yes, no Democrat is perfect. But this is pretty pathetic corporate ass kissing.

Joe Biden is also a staunch supporter of the occupation of Iraq, and IMO, part of the reason that Biden is so supportive of this occupation is because he is representing defense related corporations.

[Reciprocity]

29. Pro War. n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

30. how do I loathe thee, Biden, let me count the ways...

IWR, IWR, IWR ad infinitum
Bankruptcy Bill, Biden the Dem who helped corporations more than workers
Clarence Thomas
Plagiarist - and then acts holier than thou...Anita Hill
Biden's belief he speaks for Democrats rather than his state.
Presidential ambition personified in a smarmy :puke: manner.

There are no perfect people, but at least make consistent efforts on behalf of the people so that they could possibly want to support him.

[sellitman]

31. Because Biden is Bush-lite

If he would act like a Dem more often he would get more respect. Same with my Senator...LIEberman.

[laugle]

33. I used to like him, and I

even met him many years ago at a fundraiser in San Francisco. At one time I thought he would make a good president. But he is far to entrenched in Washington, same old, establishment, politics. You just never know where he stands. He seemed to think the confirmation of Condi was some big joke! Telling her "I'm voting for you" but I have to ask you some questions. What a phoney pretense that was. And of course voting for the bankrupcy bill, shows a clear bias for big business.

I'm trying to get rid of Feinstein in California, because she is not doing the work of the people. We cannot keep electing the same old dems just because they are electable. At the very least we should vote for others in the primary to show them that they are not untouchable!

The way I see it, if we don't get better people in the congress, we will end up with a bunch of Strom Thurmonds, just because they were easy to elect.

[snowbear]

37. There's so many people passing thru the gates here at DU....

That you'll find some who like, love, or dislike every Democrat out there.. :shrug:

I'll betcha that out of the actual true blue Democrats here.. that more like Biden that dislike him.

Justa hunch ~~ :smoke:

[hatrack]

38. Because he just LOVES to fellate MBNA

That's good enough for me - how about y'all?

[zulchzulu]

39. MBNA bought by B of A...going...going...gone!

It was a recent merger (I think it's final) that will screw up the Wilmington, DE economy. A lot of MBNA buldings will soon be vacant. And a lot of those buildings are very nice (as far as office buildings go)...

Biden reminds me of McCain. He does a lot of decent work and then blows it all up in his face and alienates the Dem base.

[CTLawGuy]

40. He was a big war cheerleader

and frankly I don't care for that. 1700 of our soldiers are dead because of people like him.

[Cha]

41. Read what billmon has to

say about biden..

<<snips>>

Biden Their Time

"This really is beyond pathetic. Karen Hughes, the president's right brain lobe, appeared today before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to be rubber stamped into her new job as America's "public diplomat" to the Arab world, or some such propaganda bullshit.

Biden submitted in lieu of a personal appearance:

"I am particularly interested in and supportive of the nomination of Karen Hughes to be undersecretary of state for public diplomacy ... I believe that she is highly qualified because of her professional background, and, importantly, enjoys the full confidence of the president and the secretary of state.
She will bring new energy and creativity to our public diplomacy efforts. I commend the president for choosing her and persuading her to return to Washington, and I look forward to working with her for the next three years on this important foreign policy priority.”

"Glad we cleared that up. I had been under the misimpression that Biden was preparing to run for president as a Democrat. But I can see I was mistaken. Nobody, not even Joe Biden, is stupid enough to believe that giving wet, slobbering kisses to the other half of Bush's reptilian brain trust is a smart way to go after Democratic primary voters."



http://www.billmon.org/

[leesa]

42. Don't you listen to what comes out of his mouth? He's a political whore

who would kiss anyone's but for a vote, including Bush butt.

[Zen Democrat]

43. Read what Helen Thomas wrote about Biden this week --

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., wants to run for president, but right now he sounds like an echo chamber for President Bush's failed policies on Iraq.

After reading his recent remarks to the Brookings Institution following his return from his fifth fact-finding trip to Baghdad last month, I'd tell Biden: "Forget it."

The senator is going to have to come up with better solutions for the Iraqi dilemma than he is offering. It's not much different from the "stay the course" blueprint that Bush has laid down

--snip--

Biden will learn that his "me too" loyal support of the president's foreign policy is not the way to win the presidency. Just ask John Kerry.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/233074_thomas19.html

[ISUGRADIA]

44. "large part to do with the Americans with Disabilities Act"

Biden was a bit player, the ADA was Tom Harkin's baby.

[TankLV]

47. Actuall, it was Bob Dole's baby.

[ISUGRADIA]

51. How was it Dole's Legislation?

Harkin worked with Dole so I know he was a key backer, but Harkin was the legislation's author.

[TankLV]

60. Dole had a big hand in crafting and leading it thru.

After all - he had a personal stake in the matter.

He was largly responsible to all the backhalls dealing to make sure it passed when the repukes and some vichy dems wanted nothing to do with it.

It was very personal for him.

It's a very interesting story.

[TankLV]

45. Umm - because he's a fucking sellout?

Because he's delusional?

Because he gives the repukes aid and comfort and PRAISES bunkerboy - a well documented WAR CRIMINAL?

Just MAYBE because he's grown to become a lie-berman/zellout/repuke-lite vichy dem from the repuke wing of the party?

[howmad1]

48. He deserves an Academy Award.

Man, when he bares his teeth and gives that angry impression of his, it's definitely worth an Academy Award. He's got to be one of the best actors in congress. What a friggin phoney.}(

[barb162]

46. he talks against the pugs then he often votes with them

[FrenchieCat]

49. Biden talks out of both sides of his mouth....

And take credidt for other people's ideas all of the time!

Plus the man is Oogly from profile. No hair on his crown, and a triple chicken chin. Not at all pretty. He's not gonna make it.

[Vinca]

50. While I find Biden entertaining,

I would not support him because of his apparent close, personal relationship with the credit card companies. The bankruptcy bill, as written, will cause severe hardship to people who cannot pay medical bills and I predict a rise in suicides directly associated with the bill Biden endorsed. At the very, very least, Senator Kennedy's proposed exemption for medical bills should have been included. 45 million are uninsured, but that doesn't mean they're in perfect health and won't have medical expenses. And Biden voted for the bill as it stands.

[mvd]

53. And being from Delaware

Where a lot of the credit companies reside, is no excuse IMO. I have ruled out voting for him in the primary, and would have trouble getting behind him even in the GE - just because of that vote. I might write in Kucinich or something. It's not mindless bashing - that bankrupcy bill is a major issue with me.

[jillan]

52. I like Biden too.

I like Biden alot.
I like his personality. I like how he fights in the Senate. He was awesome during the Bolton hearings, and I believe that he is the major reason why Bolton's nomination is still in limbo.

I could and would support Biden if he ran for president.

And shut up people about his hair-plugs. He's got the $, so why not?
Why is that worse than botox, face lifts, hair color, liposuction?

Besides, Biden is a very handsome man. Hair or no hair!

[Pallas180]

54. Spoke against Durbin when Durbin called the admin Nazis-

Durbin is right.

[AAARRRGGGHHH]

55. I like him ... He's the real deal.

Just kidding. He really bugs me.

He absolutely stabbed Dean in the back, he bent over and took it for the credit card companies in the Bankruptcy Bill fiasco, and he 'likes' the man who attempted to legally justify the use of torture in Abu Ghraib. A lot of other posters have other very valid reasons for disliking him, but these were the three things that really got me.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

56. Let's start with this one...

...I don't need any other reasons. This one was sufficient.

[JDPriestly]

59. Biden's politics are pre-internet.

Nowadays, politicians can't say one thing to please voters and then vote another way in the Senate. Everything they say and do is on record and that record is available on the internet. Biden plays liberal, but, as the posts on this thread show, he votes conservative a little too often. He talks good talk, but votes like he's been bought.

He needs to put his shoes on straight and walk the same walk he talks.

[bearfan454]

63. He votes repuke all the time.

Sickening.

[La Coliniere]

64. Not that far from Lieberman,

a bought and sold corporatist. Dems need to do better. And he can blather on and on for what seems like eons and say absolutely nothing.

[magnolia]

65. I disagree with Joe from time to time.

But I think he's a great guy. I heard him give a speech last winter and it was one of the most moving, inspirational...and very funny and entertaining speeches I have ever heard. He is really a great speaker and when he speaks to just democrats you get a truer sense of who he is.