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What if the Republican story about the Plame outing is true?

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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:09 PM
Original message
What if the Republican story about the Plame outing is true?
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 06:10 PM by mikelewis
Even though they are ignoring the fact that a crime was committed, their political machine is desperate to paint a picture of a justified motive. The Republicans have said that Joe Wilson was basically lying about the Niger Documents and was put up to it by his CIA wife, Valerie Plame. Now Valerie was also a specialist in WMD proliferation and should have had knowledge of Iraq's WMD capabilities. What ever knowledge she did have was apparently wrong. Obviously, her poor performance led to Bush honestly believing that Iraq had WMD's. Essentially they have insinuated that they were intentionally duped by Valerie and Joe Wilson.

Now, the thing that bothers me about the Iraq war is the fact that Bush and Company leaned very heavily on the WMD angle, going so far as to invoke images of mushroom clouds over a U.S. city. This was pretty powerful imagery, especially from someone who knew that Iraq did not have the weapons or the intent to develop some. Now, there is nothing that I wouldn't put past Bush and that being said, I can't for the life of me imagine why we didn't find weapons of mass destruction.

Let's face it, he could have planted bullshit evidence to justify his claims. Remember the magic passport that passed through the fiery cloud of the plane crashing into the World Trade tower; only to be found by FBI agents hours later, unscathed, plucked like a pin from within that gigantic haystack of rubble? It obviously doesn't even have to be credible for the sheeple to believe it as long as it's something that indicated Saddam had WMD or at least sought them. But he didn't, there was absolutely nothing, not a fucking thing that supported even a hint of this being true.

Now our belief is that they launched a preemptive invasion to find weapons that they knew were not there. I know Bush is stupid but not that fuckin stupid, I mean honestly, you know Wolfowitz and Cheney are not complete retards. If they knew there weren't any weapons, they would have planted them. You know they would have.

I think it's possible that they may have been truly suckered by our very own CIA. I think the Republicans may be actually telling the truth. Now, if the CIA did sucker him into a "slam dunk" impeachment, you have to ask why they would do that? Let's see, the way the majority if America sees it, the CIA is responsible for failing to stop the attacks on 9/11. Because of this they have lost prestige and more importantly funding. Now there are some who believe that there is more than enough evidence to suggest that our Intelligence actually knew about it before hand and let it happen. Rarer still are those who believe it was actually carried out on order from our government as a means of seizing power and furthering a radical global domination plan. {Kooky, huh?} Any of these scenarios bode poorly for the future of the CIA.

Then came Iraq. The publics perception is that the President relied on faulty intelligence from the Central Intelligence Agency and we invaded Iraq for an apparent mistake but, alas, we have applied the Pottery Barn rule and so now we're stuck. Ultimately, the CIA screwed up, yet again. But what if they screwed up on purpose, just like the Republicans are insinuating? I don't know, if I were a CIA agent and wanted to destroy a popular President who was hell bent to paint me as a loser or a traitor, luring him into his own Vietnam may not be such a bad idea. They successfully did it against the Soviets in Afghanistan, maybe they did it again in Iraq against the Neocon's.

Honestly, how hard would it be to lure them in? There's no doubt he and his neocon fanatics wanted to go to Iraq more than a 5 year old wants Christmas so how hard would it be to feed him the things he wanted to see? How hard would it be to play games with Rummy's Intelligence Services? How hard would it be to stall information or even create a bit that misleads? The least this could accomplish would be to stall his global conquest plans, at best, they could get lucky and actually bring him down.

Now, today, we have Karl Rove and Scooter Libby stewing over a pot of very hot lies while they cling ever so tightly to their bosses coat tail. They hang over a gaping hole much deeper than Nixon ever peered down. You gotta ask yourself, how lucky is the CIA? Even if the Republicans are lying through their Christian teeth, you have to admit, the CIA has a lot to gain. Intentional or not, they are single-handedly giving the Democrats a win in the Senate in '06 and most likely the White House in '08. They're virtually destroying the Republican party and ensuring a very friendly administration. Their image may be damaged but their rivals in U.S. intelligence will collapse from their support of Bush and his agenda if the President is impeached. They may be bloodied but they'll be the only one's left standing.

If the Republicans are telling the truth, I would just like to say, thank you to the brave men and women of the CIA who are on our side. If they're lying and the CIA did not dupe them into war, I'd like to say, congratulations CIA. Either way, I think things are about to get real interesting.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. What if monkeys suddenly flew out of my ass?
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Then I'd say you have a problem and should see a doctor
By the speed of your reply, I see you didn't read the post...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:16 PM
Original message
I read all I needed to.
"What ever knowledge she did have was apparently wrong. Obviously, her poor performance led to Bush honestly believing that Iraq had WMD's. Essentially they have insinuated that they were intentionally duped by Valerie and Joe Wilson. "

:rofl:

:eyes:
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. That's what they claim...
If they are telling the truth, it means a faction in the CIA is actively trying to thwart the neocon agenda.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Do you REALLY believe it's Wilson's & Plame's fault that the CIA
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 06:31 PM by redqueen
had faulty intelligence, and not Cheney's, for setting up the Office of Special Plans, which cherrypicked the intel used to sell this war?

Do you believe it's in ANY WAY possible that that's true?

Think hard.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. OMG. Are you saying that Bushco says that they went to war
based on Valerie's bad info that there WERE WMDs,
and THAT's why they're pissed at her & Joe? I need
smelling salts.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yes, it seems he's saying they may be right about that.
Makes ya think, dunnit?
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well, at least it's original, I hope.
My brain is melting. However, if Rove is reading here
he just might run it up the flagpole. Can't hurt.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's too bad we can't vote for a "Worst" page.
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tmorelli415 Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. If the Repuke Story About Plame is True...
then pigs will fly and the moon will turn into green cheese.
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unrepuke Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Huh? Republicans telling --- the - "TRUTH" ???
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha :rofl:
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read your post and I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
I might add, IF bullfrogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I read your post and I think you're "BARFING" up the wrong tree
:rofl: :rofl:
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. AND -- if my aunt had wheels she's be a pastry cart.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. blahblahblahblahblah
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 06:17 PM by fudge stripe cookays
I'm sorry did you say something?
:freak:
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah what it Valarie actually believed the forged documents were real?
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 06:19 PM by Vincardog
What if the whole CIA actually believed the WHIG lies?
What if we all lived in the land of OZ?
What if we all just drink the Kool Aid and believed that aWoL cares about anything other than himself?

Destroy a popular President PLEASE


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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. I guess you don't recall these ancient news stories.
WHY THE CIA THINKS BUSH IS WRONG
The president says the US has to act now against Iraq. The trouble is, his own security services don't agree.
13 October 2002
http://www.sundayherald.com/28384

CIA IN BLOW TO BUSH ATTACK PLANS
The letter also comes at a time when the CIA is competing with the more hawkish Pentagon, which is also supplying the White House with intelligence on the Iraqi threat.
October 10, 2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,808970,00.html

WHITE HOUSE 'EXAGGERATING IRAQI THREAT'
Bush's televised address attacked by US intelligence
October 9, 2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,807286,00.html
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I remeber them very well....
The only problem is, it makes absolutely no sense to invade a country if you know that there is no justification to do so. It's completely retarded. These guys could have easily planted questionable evidence and called it a justified war.

Also, why would the Republican machine grind over Wilson when the crime committed didn't even concern him. It only establishes thier motive. They went after Valerie because she and her husband were supposedly trying to decieve the White House. That's thier line not mine. It's a bone-headed defense at best.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Um, they tried.
They ground Wilson to intimidate anyone else who was thinking of doing the right thing and speaking truth to power. Duh.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. And "someone" forged the original Iraq/Niger/Yellowcake docs.
*
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Why did they invade if they knew there were no WMD's?
Because they'd gotten away with every other outrageous thing they'd tried - - from stealing an election to passing the war resolution just before the 2002 election to everything else those phonies have ever tried.

Think about AWOL's life. He's never accomplished a thing, and yet they spun that into millions of dollars and a resume to run on.

Why should they think they couldn't get away with this?

That bunch has gotten by on luck and charm (and lies) their whole lives.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Plus they thought the war would be a snap
& everybody would forget about the WMD claim
& rejoice that Saddam was gone & democracy growed
& oil flowed.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Go and read some history, you'll find out more!!!!!
Has this administration done anything that makes sense?

Hitler attacked Poland with no justification, I guess that makes him completely retarded. Pope Urban called for the Crusades with no
justification, throughout history ditators, tyrants, and religious fanatics have attacked other countries without justification.

If you think that this group of neocon nazis use logic in their plans, then I want what you're smoking.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. Justification has nothing to do with it.
Since when did Bush give a rat's ass about JUSTIFYING anything, fercrissakes! Bush & Co. do things because they CAN, or because they have a hardon for war.

Cripes! What makes you think this all has to make sense???

I was reading Mike Ruppert's, Crossing the Rubicon last night. he described Bush as "a mentally ill empty suit". There's your reason.
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. It makes a lot of sense if you think like a neocon
They thought our invasion would be a smooth success, Iraq would be a convenient nation to invade considering it's right by Iran, and in their warped heads they think that we could force "democracy" and it would just spread throughout the Mid East like magic.

Don't forget OIL, I don't think most people realize how crucial oil is to our economy. Without oil, our economy would collapse...

I'm sure the neocons think they are working in our nation's best interest just like they arrogantly assumed the Iraqi's would be welcoming our troops when we invaded.

It's also very telling that Bush didn't let the UN inspectors finish their jobs...no?

The current administration blames their failures on everyone else except themselves...

Of course they are going to blame the CIA.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. "It's completely retarded."
pot meet kettle
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
50. Umm - try to learn something.
Edited on Sat Jul-23-05 12:10 AM by TankLV
It's amazing - you've been around since last November and haven't learned a thing!

It makes a lot of sense if you're tanking in the polls after stealing an election - can't criticize a "wartime" president ya know!

You really are something.

Stick around - maybe if you open your eyes and take some reading comprehension courses, you'll actually LEARN something!

Thanks for playing, tho!

Here - this might help you - but I doubt it considering all your previous posts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4171401&mesg_id=4171401
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Put the cup down and step away from the bowl with the sweet red liquid.
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Check12 Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. What if Elvis killed JFK to keep him from revealing that the
aliens at roswell were conspiring to fake the moon landing, so that they could prove that was never any Holocaust and that Jesus had a wife and seven kids.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. I understand the nagging question..
of if the Bush Regime knew that there no WMDs why did they go forward with the invasion on that premise. That doesn't lead to the CIA supplying them false Intell. Cheney culled Intell from the CIA took it to the OSP where it was fixed to fit the policy.

I have thought about this a few times. Yeah, it does challenge logic. My take is that the Bush Regime knew there no WMDs. The figured that once Iraq was taken over that the Amerikan public wouldn't care if there were no WMDs. Sec. Rice said that the whole world thought saddam had WMDs. It was the CIA that screwed up according to the RW and most Amerikans accept that lie.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. I thought it was eight kids,,,,,,,
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Pass that doobie, bro!
:P
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. there's a rather large problem with all this
Getting caught with your pants down during Peak Oil means the country's dead. Would the CIA sink the country to salvage their reputation?

There are some other problems with this, like the neofascists contradicting themselves regarding the Iraq threat etc., Saddam getting inspected by IAEA, and so on.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wow- what a waste of text & time. I suggest you brush up on the facts
At least in your first paragraph you make reading any further optional.

Nonsense.
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Merlot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. I just made it through the first paragraph -
my head was spinning, and I felt a huge disconnect from reality coming on.

so I scrolled down to read DUers responses, and am now back in the land of the living (and rational)
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. Have you followed this story at all?
It doesn't sound like you've read much of the original material; judges opinions, prosecution requests, statements of witnesses, Wilson's original op-ed, and all the rest of the vast record of this story that is out there.

Your musings indicate that you don't know many of the knowable facts of this case.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yes...
...Bush and the WHIG are that fucking stupid, corrupt and incompetent. You put a lot of effort into putting out a line of thought thoroughly and completely debunked. It wasn't the CIA that fed Bush "bad intel", it was Cheney and Rummy, the OSP and the WHIG. Maybe reading more about the case, the war, and the runup to the war, would help you formulate your thoughts.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. Your premise makes no sense
If, as you claim, the CIA wanted to "get back" at Bush for his blaming the agency for the intelligence failures that led to 9/11, why would it then feed him information about Iraq WMD which they knew to be wrong? So that Bush could point the finger at the agency again, and make them look even more stupid?
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. What if a pathological liar with a psychotic and uncontrollable urge to
invade Iraq became president of the United States? What if the invasion of Iraq was the topic of the very first National Security Council meeting such a president held? What if dozens of people in the administration were willing to, and actually did, commit crimes to justify such an invasion?

The Bush craving to invade Iraq predates by years any possible CIA plot.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. I think there is another logical explanation
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 07:03 PM by ktowntennesseedem
as to why they didn't try to plant any bogus WMD evidence so they could say, "told ya so!"

Even knowing there were no WMD's to be found, their prediction for the whole thing was for a brief and glorious charge up to the gates of Baghdad, followed by a wonderful victory parade put on by a grateful and welcoming Iraqi public, then a quick election to create a beautiful, America-loving, oil-producing democracy that would be a shining example for the rest of the middle east! Hollywood and all its special effects couldn't paint such a beautiful picture!
WMD was merely justification for GOING to war. They never figured they would have to PRODUCE any evidence, once the remake of Iraq was under way. But alas, it didn't quite follow that script and the WMD thing came back to bite them in the collective ass.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Bingo! So what does the Republican machine seek to gain...
by attacking Wilson, Valerie Plame and the CIA? Thier arguement makes absolutely no sense at all. They have repeatedly questioned Joe Wilson's credibility but it is not relevant at all to the leak. If his credibility was in question then it gives them a motive. They also make a point to say that Valerie was a WMD specialist and since Bush has laid the blame squarely on the shoulders of the CIA's faulty intelligence, she would share some of the blame for Iraq. Again, a motive for revenge.

It's bewildering to watch. I have no idea what point they are trying to make with thier defense but it's got to be about the most bizarre story I've heard, well, since Jeff Gannon anyway. I can't wait for thier punchline because I'm getting lost in the joke.

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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. ...because they are backed into a corner
Look forward to them spinning even more ridiculous stories as this case progresses (which I hope it does).

I don't think they were prepared for this, I know they didn't expect journalists to reveal their sources...
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
56. You got it.
Plus, it's not like they could very easily 'plant' a massive quantity of WMD's once the war was underway and you have thousands of troops from all over the world, along with numerous reporters, and the entire world watching the Iraq theater. Someone would've noticed dontcha think? They can't 'accidentally' kill everyone.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. OK,the poor innocent regime gets taken in by ....
...2 left wing operatives...so when Joe Wilson publishes an OP-ED saying it's NOT so-they are SO confused they attack a soveriegn country ANYHOW????Sorry...it looks like you put a lot of work into your post,but it just doesn't fly anymore than they were "taken in" by "Curveball".A better answer is (DSM) they were "fixing" the intelligence" around their oft STATED determination to invade Iraq....
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. That's it in a nutshell. The administration was busy FIXING
the intelligence, as the DSM shows. You have to tie all the pieces together.

Someone needs to link MikeLewis to the Plame threads. He'll have his reading cut out for him, but maybe he'll put down the kool-aid.

:kick::kick::kick:
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. Umm no
and wow!
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. Hey maybe the Repukes are right and junior really won both elections
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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Cromwell Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. You ignore something important...
The Bush administration was looking for a given set of 'results' for information on Iraq WMD. Data was put together to support the viewpoint desired; CIA analysts and 'area experts' provide data, then that data is cherrypicked. It's sometimes a frustrating job.

Note in all the speeches and pronouncements, Administration types were quite careful to say 'could be', 'might', 'possibly' or even 'we believe'.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yes,, the truth. Wilson was not lying. The documents were forged.
No one has ever disputed that and there has never been any other evidence publicly presented to prove Iraq was looking for yellow cake uranium.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
47. Uh oh..
They're out again tonight. Just read every response.

Not one agreed with the original poster. (Sorry Mike :shrug: )

Yet someone rated it up.

:rofl: Sorry Mike, but some freaknoid got a kick out of this possible theory you submitted !!!

---->>> You've been freep-rated! :o

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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
48. Umm...she was tracking WMDs and their financing. What makes you think her
information was wrong? CIA said there were unlikely to be any. She was probably about to bust Bush and his SA friends for their terrorist financing.

The Niger documents have been PROVEN to be fakes long ago. Joe Wilson never said Cheney sent him either.

You are really off-base on a lot of things here. You need to read up and get your facts straight.
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Old_Fart Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. "THEY DON'T TELL THE TRUTH"
They twist lies around to make it look like it might have happened that way but it's never the truth.

I wouldn't exchange a republican a dime for two nickles because I would end up with two wooden nickles.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. No, you'd wind up owing them a quarter
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
51. Has there ever been a thread at DU where every single post
disagreed with the OP, not one post deleted, the thread
not deleted as flamebait (because the OP seems sincere),
and nobody really getting too pissed or anything?
A very strange and even oddly beautiful thread.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. I think it's because deep down, we wish it were true
I know the story line was bullshit but I was following to the talking points to an illogical conclusion. I know he waded into Iraq envisioning a quick victory and cheering parades. I know he also planned to then turn his armies hard right and into Iran and then sheeple would forget all about Iraq. What he didn't plan for was an insurgency that took hold almost over night. But the Republicans are pushing the story and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Their defense does not clear Rove, Libby or anyone else. Their defense does not even address the crime, it addresses a motive and tries to justify it. I wasn't really sincere about it, all you have to do is read anything by Seymour Hersh and you know this is absurd but I'm trying to see the picture they're painting. They are repeatedly attacking Wilson as a Democrat partisan and referring to Plame as a WMD specialist as if any of this is relevant to the crime. Hell, even if this fantasy were true, the crime was the outing of a CIA agent, not the illegal invasion. Someone needs to tell them thier arguement is as ridiculous as my post. But I guess deep down, I would feel comforted to know that there were people in the CIA who were on our side and were responsible for defending this country from this domestic enemy.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. We wish WHAT were true?
That Valerie said there were WMDs in Iraq
& that's why they went to war?
Or that Bushco said she said that & she really didn't?
Or that Joe was involved in the conspiracy
of lies with her somehow?
Why would we wish any of those were true?
In any case they're NOT true.
In fact it's the OPPOSITE of all the known facts.

If I may say so, I don't think you know if you're
being sincere or not. You say you're not NOW, after
the mass jaw-dropping response your post received,
but then you basically present the same
argument/scenario again. I think you got some kind of
a mind, but I'm not sure it knows quite what it's
doing from sentence to sentence. And 20 or 30 people
have explained why your theory is hogwash, but you simply
repeat it here again.

"But the Republicans are pushing the story and I can't for the life of me figure out why."

What Repubs have said that Valerie & Joe are to blame for us
going to war? What evidence do you have that Valerie said that
there were WMDs in Iraq?

"Their defense does not clear Rove, Libby or anyone else. Their defense does not even address the crime, it addresses a motive and tries to justify it."

I think one problem is you don't understand how effective it
is to attack the person, personality, mind, philosophy, ideology,
looks, party & motivation of your opponent. Those kinds of things
WORK in a battle for the hearets & minds of the people. That's
ehat the Repoubs do, and do, and do, because it takes its toll.
They KNOW they're not addressing the facts when they attack the
messenger. So when they say, "Oh, Wilson's a Democrat," they know
that's a smokescreen. When they say, "Oh, his wife sent him," they
know that's a smokescreen, but they hope that SOME people believe
it, or are distracted by it, and think, "Oh, yeah, it was nepotism,
he wasn't really an expert, so his report therefore is no good."

See, that's all they got. You want themn to address the core issues,
but they can't do that because the core issues are: They lied to get
us into a war. Period. They committed the worst thing leaders of a
country can do: lie to start a war that didn't need to be fought. It's
the worst thing the leaders of a country can do. And not only that,
they do it in the name of the highest principles: freedom and democracy.

So you're basically asking why a bunch of crooks who have been
caught red-handed are saying that the cop who caught them is a
Democrat, and his wife got him his job. You're dumbfounded at why
they would pull such a stupid thing. But that's all they got, AND
it's worked so many times in the past, the tactic of personal
attack/distraction. Ever hear of a guy named John Kerry?

"But I guess deep down, I would feel comforted to know that there were people in the CIA who were on our side and were responsible for defending this country from this domestic enemy."

Do you really believe everybody in the CIA was in on the
manufacturing of lies that led to the war? Of course there were
CIA people who did not want to be a part of the war lies. They
wanted to do their job, which is to find the truth of what was
going on in Iraq. The problem is that BUSHco were in charge &
did whatever they had to do to keep the lies coming. There are
plenty of stories about the Bush bullying of the CIA which have
yet to see the light of day.

Anyway, good luck, Sir. I look forward to more posts from you.

Sincerely,
A-S
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
55. remember when some of us wondered if they were right about WMD?
They are known liars - its always a safe bet to believe the exact opposite of their pr.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. If they told the truth
it would be a horrible accident.
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