I believe that * & crew outed Plame intentionally to compromise the CIA

[Skidmore]

while starting a war their backers do not want to end. There is no profit in peace. What better way to insure that the world fights for decades to come than to destroy or discredit the intelligence organization which could control the dynamics on the ground. Without adequate intelligence, we just have to take the adminstration's word for it that things are what they say they are. And, if the Rs can keep cheating in elections and scaring the nation, then they can keep gaming this war until they bleed the world dry. I know that this is extremely cynical, but these people have no sense of morality beyond the jargon they spout to keep freepers in line.

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. Yeah, a power struggle - Bush camp saying, "We will fuck you"

Shame on the treasonous bastards in the Bush administration. They need to find out the one important fact they're overlooking. The law can be enforced. The investigation is a shot over the bow from the CIA.

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[Disturbed]

2. Maybe they will trash the CIA too far.

Ever hear of the term "Terminate with extreme prejudice"?

[jobycom]

3. Like Nixon did to the FBI?

Nixon undercut the FBI, and as a result Mark Felt turned Deep Throat.

I think you are quite right. This was talked about briefly on Randi Rhodes yesterday, in fact. I think BushCo leaked Plame as a warning to the CIA to play ball. I don't believe Rove was simply trying to punish a couple of people and failed to consider the consequences. I believe Rove and Cheney deliberately sabatoged the CIA's WMD program because the CIA was not lying for them. I think RoveCo knew that the leak would result in deaths, and I think that was his plan--to show the CIA that Rove meant business.

That's just a hunch. We have to go off evidence, not hunches, and so far the evidence proves only what Rove did, and not why. Maybe we'll find out, maybe not.

But the CIA is starting to fight back, as the FBI did under Nixon. Hopefully, with similar results.

[Skidmore]

4. I don't understand the mentality of a person who chooses

to set up or mark people others for death--and think it is an accepable act. Just as I have a hard time understanding the mental machinations of a person who choses CIA operative as a professional career. * & cronies are much worse than that though. This is evil, because they compromised not only the intelligence officers but the entire nation.

I wonder if anyone has a feel for the number of CIA officers who remain as part of Poppy's CIA and are loyal to the Bush clan? It would seem to me that there must still be a bunch of those folks in the organization, unless they've all been rewarded with think tank appointments or work for PNAC now.

[jobycom]

6. I think Bush Daddy's CIA influence

is over-rated. Bush was a beauracrat. He had some connections, but I've never thought he had enough planning ability to really run the CIA beyond a beauracratic level. Could be wrong, though. He just never impressed me as very smart.

As for how people can do it, you have to understand the mentality of people like Bush. The family believes they are basically nobility, and they have a duty to protect the rest of the world. That means they get to decide what's right for the rest of the world, because the world isn't smart enough. Some people have to be sacrificed to protect the greater good, and this nobility, and not the people, are the ones to decide who gets sacrificed. Thus, destroying a CIA chain of NOCs was a small price to pay for the overall betterment of the US. After all, CIA agents know they may have to sacrifice their lives at any time for the nation. They were just under the false assumption that they would not have to sacrifice themselves to their own leaders.

This nobility class believes that since they are gaurdians, they also deserve a certain level of compensation, so that they don't have to do petty things like work for a living. Thus, as the nobility of medieval Europe believed, it is right for them to take their money from the public coffers--through tax cuts, through manipulations of markets, through clever defense investments and insider trading, etc. Thus, to them, the corruption and greed are just their proper rewards.

That's why people like Bush are so arrogant, and have no trouble lying continuously. Bush Daddy was the same way. And they always attract amoral monsters like Rove and Cheney, who hope that by being useful to the Blood, they will be accepted one day. They won't--they are hired help. But they are willing to accept table scraps.

Sick group, but that's them.

[wli]

9. interesting thing about Poppa Bush

Ex-CIA directors are entitled to hold meetings with the CIA. It's rumored that Poppa Bush has been holding meetings daily for an extended period of time (maybe he isn't anymore, but it sounded like it was ongoing for a long time at the time I heard it).

[goclark]

14. Do a DU search of Poppy Bush I beg you

He runs this crime family now and always has run it.

People think he is so mild mannered.
If so, why would he not have enough guts to rain in his own son who has no brain.

HE put the chimp in power and HE is keeping him there.

He put ROVE in power ( how do you think that Chimp got ROVE as a handler? -- POPPY!

Please do not give POPPY a free pass without checking his record.

[wli]

15. I didn't say anything about mild-mannered.

Just the bit about him regularly attending these meetings.

[goclark]

19. Sorry, I meant to respond tothe post before yours

Yes, you are on the right track,

Why is he the only president that would even want to attend these meetings?

He always has his hand in the cookie jar and yet he never "gets caught."

[wli]

21. eh? Poppa Bush is hired help too

The real nobility doesn't care to sully themselves with so much publicity, though they're certainly not particularly secret (i.e. no "secret trillionaire" bullcrap).

[barb162]

24. Oh they think they are nobility all right

"family believes they are basically nobility... have a duty to protect the rest of the world"


And they think the rest of humanity is supposed to do whatever they say. They are basically not very intelligent but were born with a lot of influence, money and power. Sort of like Prince Charles. Very arrogant, opinionated, etc., but I doubt they could last a day in a regular office job. They don't feel they have a duty to protect anything other than themselves because no one else is as WORTHY as they are. Just ask them.

[fujiyama]

30. Agree about the nobility part

but I disagree that they want to "save the world" in any way.

They do it for the power and the money. They will do what they can to protect their family interests in oil, the nation's interest be damned.

The whole family is filled with nothing but fuckin criminals.

[izzie]

5. I think they always go after the messenger.

It seems to be how they work.

[highnooner]

7. It had nothing to do with getting at the CIA

The fact is that Wilson called the BA in a lie regarding WMD's in Iraq. Rove went into a standard mode of attacking the messenger. It was about attacking the messenger by implying that Wilson was incompetent to speak about the issue because he would not have gotten the Niger assignment had his wife not been working for the CIA. Simply put, they got caught breaking the law and now they are trying to talk the authorities and the public out of believing that they did that.

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. Well, that's the story, but the facts are people died

And the action of the Bush administration prevented the facts about WMD coming out, destroyed an entire front operation, cost the US all kinds of valuable assets and cost some people their lives.

How you come to the conclusion that they didn't mean to do that, given their wealth of experience (PNAC and WHIG), I think is taking the path of faith when the evidence points to a power play. Not only that, Tenet was forced out and a more pliant Bush buddy got the job, so I got plenty of evidence pointing to a power play and you have what? Just your faith, apparently. Personally, I have no faith that these people have a shred of humanity between them - your mileage may vary, but I doubt it.

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[izzie]

17. I am not sure how these Right Wing Nuts end up with this thinking

They seem to only go with some one who thinks just like them. I mean no one can step off their line, You could go with 99 % of what they think but that 1% will make you evil. Very hard to understand that view of things for me. Looks to me Wilson was very well liked by the old Bush. This Bush seems to really be unsure of him self and wants every one to toe his mark or else. All must love the King.

[bunny planet]

18. Maybe not the entire CIA, but I certainly think they wanted to shut down

the Brewster Jennings CIA cover company (Valerie Wilson's cover co.) and undermine any investigation or work they were doing. Otherwise why would Novak have written a second short piece where he goes out of his way to name the company (October 2003). Perhaps Brewster Jennings 'employees' were getting to close to some facts inconvenient for the * crime family. My best guess anyway. Even Nixon was smart enough to say he wouldn't f*ck with the CIA. It's obvious that Rove, His Fraudulency, and Darth Dick thought nothing could touch them anymore, they could get away with anything and never be held accountable. I guess they didn't expect the Supreme Court to turn down the case to keep Miller and Cooper's evidence under wraps. Oopsy.

[wli]

22. well, they're packing the bench now

Next Supreme Court case they'll need will be voted along party lines.

[bunny planet]

23. If it's too obvious that they've committed crimes, I don't even think a

packed Supreme Court could save them. I hope I'm not proved wrong. They have also packed the lower courts by now though, that worries me equally. Perhaps Janice Rogers Brown and Priscilla Owen have instructions in the DC Circuit Court to rule in favor of *'s cabal if any of them are brought up on charges. Isn't that where they both ended up?

[wli]

28. true, the lower courts have been backing them at every turn

Constitution and blood and murder and lies staring them in the face be damned.

[magnolia]

8. I agree with you 100%!

It started (as far as we know) with them blaming the misinformation regarding WMD on "bad intelligence". The DSM hearings made it very clear. The fact that the "good" people were quitting, that Cheney was a constant presense...all of it proves your point.

[Mr Rabble]

10. Its a bit of both I imagine.

1st and most important they needed to discredit the CIA.

Smearing Wilson/ outing his wife was secondary. Political, but not strategic.

[Joanne98]

11. So do I, and it's Bush's idea. Rove is just a servant.

[cosmik debris]

13. The CIA will get its revenge

The Plame/Traitorgate is just the beginning. Next summer look for the Impeachable Offense Bomb to be drooped just before election time. The election will be a referendum on impeachment. At least that is my crackpot theory.

[Skidmore]

20. Let's hope their revenge means putting the

Bush family out of business for generations to come.

[MoonRiver]

16. US = the new Sparta?

To build a culture of war and aggression, Spartan children were taken from their parents at age 9 to live in special camps, where they trained to become soldiers. First, of course, will come the draft for adults, but I wouldn't put it past the fascists if "conscription" for small kids was in deep planning stage. Life begets war in the PNAC of America.
:scared:

[KansDem]

25. "'conscription' for small kids was in deep planning stage"

I think we're already there: The Boy Scouts of America. My 7-year son just finished a year of Cub Scouts and I believe it will be his last. He wanted to attend meetings with his pal from first grade so I took him. What I saw both fascinated and frightened me: super patriotism, secret "handshakes" and ceremonies, undiluted devotion to all things American. The final straw occurred during one of the last meetings we attended. The kids stood in a circle with the parents standing behind. We were suppose to stand with our right hand over our heart and our left hand on the shoulder of the person standing to our left. This was done while the leader recited some Scout oath/prayer. I thought "first this, then the Bohemian Cove."

These kids might not be learning "soldiering" as practiced by the Spartans, but this experience (and the 11 years that follow) is a good prerequisite.

[MoonRiver]

26. Wow, that is scary. It sounds like a grand propaganda campaign.

Maybe your experience helps explain why the USofA is in its current nightmare condition. Me thinks this programming has been going on a long time.

[electron_blue]

27. you don't want to piss off the CIA

Even Bush must be afraid of them by now, finally. c'mon - folks. The most top secret organization in the world, capable of pulling off covert operations ANYWHHERE (including the w.h. perhaps?).

[Disturbed]

29. The CIA is being nuetered...

in favor of the NSA. The Bush Regime used the CIA to gather Intell that they took over to the OSP to fix it. They knew there were no WMDs but had to use that as the reason to over throw Saddam. They planed to scapegoat the CIA when after two investigatons showed that there were none. It was the faulty Intell from the CIA not the Bush Regime's fault. Tenet went along with all of this.

Joe Wilson threw a disclaimer into this scheme. They should have ignored him but because they are anal and revengful they decided to trash him and his wife's covert Project. They are the most arrogant assholes on the planet and still think that they will get away with this. They just might.

I am hoping that former CIA will exact payback.