Street Executions and DU

[Warren Stupidity]

I am officially amazed, appalled, and nearly despondent by the number of people here who have expressed support for the execution of an innocent person in London. :wtf:

[snowbear]

1. huh?

:freak: Sign me: "Confused in DU Land" :crazy:

[jrthin]

7. I'm confused too. I for

one am disgusted by the Brits action.

[MadisonProgressive]

2. Who expressed 'support for the execution of.....' ?

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Oh try this thread for starters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1647962&mesg_id=1647962

In addition to outright support, quite a few people have expressed 'understanding given the situation', which as far as I am concerned is just weasel words meaning that they are fine with it.

[zulchzulu]

100. Ex-sqeeze me, but that thread looks a lot like people are pissed

I can't imagine nearly anyone ot DU supporting the London shooting of an innocent person. I'd bet 99% would find it a tragic mistake.

[Warren Stupidity]

126. did you read the thread?

Some people are pissed, myself for example, others seem to think it was all a big mistake, and more than a few find it entirely justified.

[NorCalDem]

3. I think we're all appalled,

but it would be a stretch to say we are surprised that something like this might have happened. It's still a tradegy, any way you slice it.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. "all" I? I think not.

See this thread. Right here. This one. Justified shooting. Right thing to do. Could have had a bomb.

[eleny]

4. I didn't see the support you're talking about

Please post some links to the threads.

[Name removed]

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[MadisonProgressive]

9. I just read the second link and don't know what you're referring to.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. wrong link

sorry. Try the third one.

[MadisonProgressive]

13. Still don't get it.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. hmmm what don't you get?

and another http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1649183&mesg_id=1649254

[MadisonProgressive]

18. Can you quote me the post you have a problem with?

That would be very helpful!

[Warren Stupidity]

20. #16 right here for example

[MadisonProgressive]

24. I agree with #16, but not #11.

Nowhere does he (#16) say the murder is justified.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. he blames the victim

[MadisonProgressive]

31. No, he just made a suggestion to us. It's a good one too.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. oh really?

So for example women who dress 'provocatively' shouldn't be suprised when they get raped?

It is victim blaming. It helps to justify and make acceptable the street execution of an innocent. 'He should have stopped'. No, unacceptable. Plain clothes police, trained by the israelis to do exactly what they did, armed to to teeth, assault a dark skinned male on the subway, pin him down and blow his brains out. 'He should have stopped when ordered'. OK fine. This is why I'm appalled.

[MadisonProgressive]

166. You are really making a huge leap.

Reread the post and read it with comprehension!

[Warren Stupidity]

168. where?

What is the leap? Show me...

[Warren Stupidity]

17. and see post #11 here for a typical sample

[hlthe2b]

6. Are they expressing support or understanding for how this

occurred? I too am appalled at this tragic event--and hopeful that this horrible death will lead the Brits to think carefully re: their strategies in dealing with these incidents.

Nonetheless, I can imagine no-win situations where they may come upon a potential suicide bomber in proximity to large numbers of people. How does one stop that when a mere momentary movement may set off the bomb?
I don't know the answer... I surely hope someone can come up with some solution that avoids such a tragic mistake.

[Name removed]

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[Warren Stupidity]

12. case in point

'kay?

[PassingFair]

14. Then I suggest that you...

always dress appropriately for the weather; and
always walk at a sedate pace.

[Pallas180]

16. When bombs are going off & a cop tells you to freeze, I suggest it would

be wise to freeze.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. so

it is ok with you that the police pinned this man down on the floor and blew his brains out?

[Name removed]

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[Warren Stupidity]

23. well homer you've bought the whole 9 yards

Iraq could have had WMD too, right?

[Name removed]

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[H2O Man]

29. As President Bush said

these terrorists are cold-blooded.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

30. Like this one?

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1951088#1951934

[Warren Stupidity]

32. seems a fair analogy to me homer

so answer up. Whats the difference between going in and killing 125,000 Iraqis 'cause they might have had wmd and killing one brazillian 'cause he might have been an a-rab terrst? Huh?

Oh and please stop using '.' as your subject.

[Name removed]

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[silverlib]

53. I bet MsGrumpy won't mind

if you would like to answer questions. She's really very friendly.

[eleny]

34. About this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1649183&mesg_id=1649183

The DU poster told you that they didn't post an excuse but an explanation. That sounds reasonable.

Btw, just for the record, I don't think it's okay to pin down a person and shoot them.

[Warren Stupidity]

36. yeah I posted the wrong link.

[eleny]

47. That's okay

Let me just say that I think you can be assured that the majority of DUers, by far, are horrified and appalled by what happened. The best one can do is to address the individuals that you disagree with and try to present your opinion. You know what I mean, don't let it pass when you're passionate about something. Hopefully it will help them think and reconsider.

[Warren Stupidity]

52. I expected the usual

trolls from the darkside. What got to me was the fair number of regulars who are rationalizing this event as justified, a mistake, understandable given the circumstances. I spent all of about ten minutes doing a little research to learn that

1) the police lied about everything right from the start
2) the team that did this was trained to do exactly what they did.
3) eyewitness accounts disagree with the 'no choice but to shoot' line.

The only accident appears to have been that they mistook a brazillian for a pakistani.

[eleny]

56. Looks like it's blown up in their faces

No pun intended.

[djg21]

119. Don't be silly.

You don't know what subjectively was in the minds of the police. And surely, it was a tragedy. But to refer to this tragedy as a "street execution" before all of the facts have been fully fleshed out is inflammatory and irresponsible, not to mention just plain stupid.

If the officers reasonably believed that the deceased posed an imminent threat of harm or death to others, they had every right to exercise deadly force. I'd guess that if you and your family were at risk of being blown up with a nail bomb, you'd want police officers nearby to prevent such attack, even if it was necessary for them to use deadly force against the perpetrator.

Why don't you reserve judgment until the facts have been marshalled.

And by the way, to condemn others on DU merely because they are not prepared to rush to judgment and because they do not agree with your premature conclusions and musings, is sophomoric and undemocratic.

[Warren Stupidity]

142. Here is what is not in dispute

The victim was pinned down and while pinned down was shot in the back and in the head five times. I call that an execution. As it was in the subway not the street, it is not technically a street execution, however by 'street execution' I meant the summary public execution of a suspect by the police while the suspect was under their control.

I do not think I am jumping to any conclustion at all in that statement. As I said, those are currently the undisputed facts. And no I will not wait for the bullshit machine to figure out how to spin this correctly. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[lildreamer316]

150. yes; and question about that..

if they had him pinned down why didn't they search him/take him in for questioning?
I'm probably missing something here; such as the bomb was going to go off or they thought he was (blank) ....what AM I missing here??

[djg21]

172. We're all missing something here!

We're missing:

(1) a complete understanding of the facts; and

(2) any notion of the state of the officers' mind when they shot the man.

That's exactly the point.

Thank you.

[djg21]

164. I disagree with you.

He was pinned down. What does that mean? Had he fully capitulated to the officers, or was he fighting? Did he appear to have a weapon or explosive device? Did it reasonably appearthat he was attempting to detonate an explosive device?

You obviously have no clue about what happened; you weren't there; and, I'm sure that you can't answer any of my above questions. If you take press accounts as the gospel truth, you clearly haven't had any experience dealing with the media.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

175. Eyewitness accounts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1535246,00.html

[Warren Stupidity]

180. which universe are you in?

In my universe I am reading accounts like this:

"Witnesses said the Brazilian -- described as looking "like a cornered rabbit" -- fell to the floor in a train carriage before a policeman standing directly above shot him five times in the head."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050724/wl_uk_afp/britainattacks_050724004618;_ylt=Ajr5tBMT.AOCQcExxxTxEnG9Q5gv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

I guess 'street execution' is a little harsh. How about sadistic brutal atrocity?

[Name removed]

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[RoyGBiv]

158. Rush to judgment ...

Oh. My. God.

Are you hearing yourself?

It's sophomoric and undemocratic to "rush to judgment" about a person on DU, but apparently it's okay to "rush to judgment" and kill someone.

Excuse me. I must go let my head explode now.

[Name removed]

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[RoyGBiv]

178. I read quite well ...

Nice insults, btw. You've read the forum rules, I assume?

Let's browse a few of your comments.

If the officers reasonably believed that the deceased posed an imminent threat of harm or death to others, they had every right to exercise deadly force.

This very clearly states that you believe if the police had what you call a "reasonable belief" that the person was a threat, it's okay to end his life. No visible weapon. No circumstances involving following a guy known to be homicidal. No judge. No jury. Shoot the fucker.

Later, apparently defending both the police in this case and introducing a defense of someone on DU at the moment.

Why don't you reserve judgment until the facts have been marshalled.

And by the way, to condemn others on DU merely because they are not prepared to rush to judgment and because they do not agree with your premature conclusions and musings, is sophomoric and undemocratic.

I can read quite well. This post quite clearly criticizes those who are basing a judgment of an individual on his or her words posted here while at the same time defending killing someone based on suspicion.

Good luck with that.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

21. Welcome to DU

I guess if you saw a bunch of plainclothes detectives coming at you with guns blazing in a country where you didn't speak the language that you'd let them shoot you.

[Name removed]

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[achtung_circus]

38. So, Homer,

Where're you from?

[Name removed]

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[achtung_circus]

45. My profile is enabled.

Toronto, Ontario
Willkommen.

[silverlib]

40. Welcome to DU!

I'm glad you are here to set us straight!

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

49. Well, that's what most of us are here for.

Some people are here for other reasons.

BTW you never answered my question on the other thread. Do you support the Iraq War?

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

61. No, it does bear on the situation at hand.

Do you support the Iraq War, or not?

[MissB]

66. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay.

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

33. You call a windbreaker a "heavy coat"?

:wtf: I call it a windbreaker to ward off the chill of the over a/c'd cars.

Oh yeah...welcome to DU.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. You and me got it all wrong mrs grumpy

It is all easily explained as just an unfortunate mistake.

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

44. And then you see the pics and "poof" it's a windbreaker. But of course

the police would never lie about pumping five bullets into and unarmed...and from reports of bystanders (if we're believing reports), terrified man.

I wear a jacket everymorning to work and it's been in the nineties by afternoon here...Guess I should wear a bullet proof vest, eh?

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

59. !

Google is your friend! What? Fox News not covering this this evening? Are they still on Sandra's Wedding?? I admit, it was a glorious wedding, no??

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

69. Hostility? Where?

Use Google. Educate yourself. Answer my post to you in the "taken out of context" thread. Pretty please?

[silverlib]

46. And the teenage

"bangers" will all be shot, too?

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Yes! Yes! And all must now travel naked, sans bulky clothing on the

tube. :eyes: :hi:

[RoyGBiv]

129. Well, that's dandy ...

It was 102 here yesterday, and a woman walked into my place of business wearing a coat, with fur lining no less. I suppose by the logic defended here I should have asked my security guard to shoot her.

I was naturally suspicious, so when I spoke with her, I made a point of asking about the coat before any business was conducted, and I did so in a joking manner so as not to offend her or, if she was up to something, overtly make her paranoid. Her story was that she has a medical condition that makes her feel cold most of the time. The coat, she admitted, doesn't really help, but it made her feel more secure.

Now, truly, none of that is here nor there regarding the individual killed in London because if he did have such a condition, I have no knowledge of it. The point, however, is neither did the police. They shot first and asked questions later, and, again by the logic being supported here, that's apparently the appropriate thing to do. I should haven't asked that woman any questions. I was suspicious and so should have shot her.

Is that the kind of society you support? If so, well, the rules of this forum prevent me from saying what I think of such things when directed at a particular individual. Suffice to say I think you are ruled by your fears and grossly misguided.

[hlthe2b]

42. yup...

not to change the subject, but I didn't think anything or anyone on this very serious thread could make me laugh...

but when you signed off, Mrs. Grumpy, on your thread to our newest DUer:
"Oh yeah...welcome to DU."
(well, I got a chuckle!)

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. Hi hlthe2b!

Good to see you! :hi:

[hlthe2b]

84. Back at ya!

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

50. Why do you post only "."in the title? ...To hide your Right-wing comments?

[Name removed]

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[Misunderestimator]

57. That does NOT allow easier reading of your posts...

it allows you to hide your posts more easily... I think that's pretty damn obvious.

And where did I label you?

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

64. Look again....she labeled your "comments".

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

70. No, I called your POST right wing... LOL... but hey thanks for posting a

subject this time...

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Just to remind you...since we're discoursing here and all...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1951088&mesg_id=1951934

Care to answer to that at least??

[Name removed]

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[mvd]

101. Why not post on other subjects?

People might be a bit hostile because you are posting only on this one view. :hi:

Welcome to DU. Take advantage of what the board has to offer. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

107. Kind of like how most people don't begin by posting all hostile and

negative on threads...but no reason to be suspicious here. ;) :hi: How are you mvd?

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

118. Well, if our questions and answers (note answers) are seen as hostile

then why are yours not??? I'm pretty opinionated myself. It's one of the perks being a member of the "Democrat" Party. :hi:

[mvd]

121. Hi, MrsGrumpy

Good job with the posts here. I'm fine. Everything good with you? :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

125. All is great! Went the the Conyers DSM Town Hall Meeting today

and it was energizing!!! :hi:

[mvd]

159. Cool!

I'll see you on the boards - have a great night.

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

115. With yet more obtuseness....hmmmm...why not come out with it.

What's the difference between Kosovo and Iraq? Really, enlighten us! :hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

146. Well, he did say he supported the Iraq War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1951088#1952158

[ScreamingMeemie]

155. Oh gosh...perhaps I've been too harsh?

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

80. By the way, did you just join today?

and welcome to DU

[Name removed]

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[Misunderestimator]

114. You're welcome...

but if you expected something warmer... you might want to consider the positions you take when you first start to post here. Defending the murder of this innocent man is probably not going to make a lot of people welcome you with open arms, at least not here.

[Name removed]

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[Misunderestimator]

127. And they didn't consider that shooting him may have set off the bomb?

I would be MUCH more concerned about that.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

133. And the situation is not that simple.

And what is an Arab complexion BTW?

[ScreamingMeemie]

141. You know....anyone with a tan, Indians, Phillipinos, certain Italians...

it's all good.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

149. Me or you with a tan

:scared:

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

157. There are Arabs as light a Swedes and as dark as Africans

but shouldn't you be saying AY-RABS? :o

[ScreamingMeemie]

170. Funny thing...that's how I read every one of those posts.

:hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

so jews for example

and brazilions and italians and greeks and ...

oh never mind

[silverlib]

75. Once again,

I'm sure no one would mind if you answered questions.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. She didn't label you...

I did. Out with it. Post your wisdom in your subject lines, so that we may be easier to persuade. :hi:

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

76. No....I think there is a lot of wishful thinking and woohee look at me!

floating around here. I find it fun...and yet hard to understand why one would waste the time. You? :shrug:

[silverlib]

81. As a "newbie"

why don't you share your other opinions, such as how you feel about the war in Iraq.

We are dying to know.

[cosmik debris]

89. So tell me Homer

What does this shooting say about the value of racial profiling.

[achtung_circus]

93. Don't take it too hard.

Use the subject line.
Enable your profile, lack of one is seen as "curious".
Expect to be tested.
When all else fails, post a copycat thread in the Lounge.

[Kingofalldems]

67. A question for you Homer

How often do you use the phrase "Democrat party"? Just asking.

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. ROFL!!

:rofl: :spray:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

78. ...

:spray:

[MissB]

86. ping

[Jara sang]

94. ZOT!

[MissB]

97. Hey Jara!

:hi:

[Jara sang]

105. Hey missb!

loved the ping! :rofl: had to come back with my own freeperism!:hi:

[MissB]

108. Thank you.

:rofl: It was entertaining :D

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Beat me to it....

Or unable to come up with intelligible comments that will look good to friends from "other places" gazing upon his "triumphant" vanquishing of us evil, filthy, liberals....

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

92. I'm sure my fellow DUers would be happy to answer your questions

as soon as you answer ours. :-)

Do you support the Iraq War? Do you support the Democratic Party? So far you've been suspiciously evasive.

[ScreamingMeemie]

104. Snork!

I'd like to know who he/she (no profile,darn) supported in the primaries....:hi:

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

123. We allow people....every once in a while....to take bathroom breaks,

update profile breaks, family time breaks, work breaks (for those of us who aren't lazy and on Welfare). Go ahead. Update. We'll be here when you get back. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

95. Kind of like you you're dodging this question????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1951088&mesg_id=1951934


Would I run like hell from people in normal clothing chasing me? You bet.

Have I ever jumped a turnstile? Yes, but I went to confession and my God's okay with me now?

Would I believe the testimony over the bystanders over the testimony of scared shitless, ignorant police who pumped five bullets into a harmless man that they just racially profiled? You betcha baby? You wanna answer some questions now??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1951088&mesg_id=1951934

[Name removed]

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[Kingofalldems]

102. Your writing style is familiar

Ever been here before under another name? I think you are brilliant, in a Karl Rovian sorta way.

[Name removed]

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[achtung_circus]

117. Spanking threads belong in the Lounge NT

[Kingofalldems]

140. That's great!

I'm gonna put you on my buddy list! We can be pals!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

110. Stop!

:rofl:

[ScreamingMeemie]

111. What's that old saying...Brilliance is one step away from insanity...

or something like that. ;) :hi:

[Redstone]

137. Nah, not brilliant. Just repetitive. He's getting boring.

Redstone

[Misunderestimator]

122. A person with ARAB complexion? Are you kidding?

How about if it was a white guy in a business suit? You wouldn't just think maybe that he was late for an appointment.... or maybe even that he robbed someone... neither of which warrants being shot MULTIPLE times. Why not shoot him in the leg?

And WHAT THE HELL? If he had a BOMB strapped to his body... DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SHOOT HIM? What if the trigger to the bomb was taking his thumb OFF of a button? I would assume that kind of trigger before I would assume anything else.

[Name removed]

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[Misunderestimator]

132. Let me try again, since you only answer PARTS of questions...

As I said...

And WHAT THE HELL? If he had a BOMB strapped to his body... DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SHOOT HIM? What if the trigger to the bomb was taking his thumb OFF of a button? I would assume that kind of trigger before I would assume anything else.

[Name removed]

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[achtung_circus]

160. The way a deadman works

is that it requires a conscious effort to hold a switch apart. Lack of that conscious effort, like say 5 rounds in the head, causes the switch to "make", completing a circuit and sending an electrical charge from a battery to a detonator.

Think of holding a clothespin apart.

The primary trigger would be a switch that when consciously triggered sends that electrical charge.

[achtung_circus]

138. Or, in this case

Pakistani.

Not Arabic but still brown(ish).

A minor point, but important.

[achtung_circus]

130. It's called a "deadman"

used on locomotives to ensure the engineer is awake and by bombers to ensure detonation.

[Misunderestimator]

136. Exactly... and wouldn't you assume any SUICIDE BOMBER would

have such a thing? It only makes sense. Why would they risk dying for nothing?

[achtung_circus]

151. If I had been convinved to be a suicide bomber

I think that I'd do whatever I could to make sure that I wasn't the only person to die. The little tricks like a deadman and wrapping shrapnel around the explosive, etc. But the idea makes me ill.

[johnnie]

55. From what I understand

The suspect was shot multiple times by the police, I wonder if the cops thought that multiple gunshots to the body might have detonated a bomb if it was on the body. I have a feeling the cops weren't too bright.

[Warren Stupidity]

77. these were not 'cops'

They were a special services team trained to do what they did. The 'overreacting terrified cop' meme is bullshit. The 'thick overcoat meme' is bullshit. The 'trailed from terror den' meme is bullshit. How much bullshit needs to be uncovered before folks here wise up?

Here is my meme:
This team was sent out to make an example, to send a message to the pakistani community. The only mistake they made was that the dark skinned male wasn't a pakistani he was brazillian.

I freely admit that I have no evidence to back this up.

[Misunderestimator]

82. I completely agree with your assessment.

[Bozita]

85. Your scenario makes a lot more sense than the official version

[johnnie]

91. I think they just fucked up

It is no excuse, but man, let's list the times that innocents were killed here in the US. I don't think *anyone* is happy about what happened in London, except maybe the extremists.
I'm sorry, but some here are being a little too paranoid. I personally believe this was just a really fucked up situation. Comparing what happened in London to what happens every day in America is not a fair comparison.

[Name removed]

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[Gronk Groks]

90. He was Brazilian...They speak Portugese not English...

he probably did not understand what they were shouting, only that they WERE shouting. They were in plain clothes, not uniforms so no help there. The temperture was in the 70's. I live in Las Vegas and after our 110 degree summers WE consider the 70's long sleeve weather. They had the man PINNED God's sake and they fired 5 rounds into his HEAD.

Sorry folks, this is murder. Understandable due to what has been happening in London lately, but murder never the less.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

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[Nikki Stone 1]

144. English as a Second language, under terrifying conditions

Not the best circumstances for understanding anything. Fear and panic often shut down cognition of second language--I've taught English as a Second language for 14 years, and I can testify to that. Even a classroom stressor--like a speech in front of the class for a grade--can reduce the ability to speak and understand the second language. Being in a panic and being chased by the cops? Honey, you and I might not even understand our own language under these conditions.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

153. 5 times...in the head...at close range...terrified man....Great idea.

:applause:

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

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[MissB]

161. Woohoo!!!! Let's just execute people then

5 times in the back of the head. If they run, they're guilty. After all, it could be *my* family at risk.

:eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

163. Live Free Or Die....Remember the Founding Fathers?

I will not live in the fear that has you wrapped so tightly in its grip. I will not believe what this administration and its handmaidens tell me...I choose to believe my own lying eyes. An innocent man was killed. Am I any safer sporting a tan on that train...running because my children and I are late? Aren't we risking our lives anyway?

Could I not be hit by a bus tomorrow. Paranoia, fear and mistrust of one's neighbors are destructive things...as we have all been witness to since 9/11. I'm sorry you're caught in the hysteria.

[Nikki Stone 1]

169. What exactly was the man's fault?

Not stopping (when his comprehension of English was compromised and the police were in plainclothes and not readily identifiable as police)?

Wearing a windbreaker/jacket on a warmish day?

Looking "Middle Eastern"?

[ScreamingMeemie]

174. Awwww....he died on us.

:(

[MissB]

176. 'bout damned time

j/k mods. :hi:

The $3/gallon gas comment had me giggling, though.

[ScreamingMeemie]

177. Yes...would you quit with the talking points already???

;) :hi:

[blue neen]

173. Correction.

They warned, THEY PINNED HIM TO THE GROUND, then they shot.

Pinned him to the ground and then shot him in the head. Got it?

[magellan]

171. Who in their right mind jumps a suspected suicide bomber?

You do this to someone who actually has a hand on a triggering device and it's quite likely your actions will detonate any explosives. Not exactly the desired outcome when the idea is to STOP the bomb going off.

That poor INNOCENT Brazilian fellow has been made another example of why waging pre-emptive death and destruction is wrong.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. No support here...The men of my family are all "swarthy" you could

call it. Are they now to not ever wear jackets on public transport?

[Nikki Stone 1]

112. Exactly, Mrs. G.

As someone with "swarthy" relatives I'm with you on this one completely. Police do profile--and if we give them permission to kill based on a profile, and not on evidence, then we are lost as a free society.

[ScreamingMeemie]

135. It is a scary day when racial profiling is allowed to rule our law

enforcement. For this will be the defense of senseless murders by those in power all over the land.

[Nikki Stone 1]

154. Agreed...but it's already happening

I have taught English as a Second Language for 14 years, and most of my students have at least one story about an unfair incident with a cop. The police profile cars, skin colors, clothing... Since 9/11, the ante has been upped.

I can't be too hard on individual officers. They are trained that way, and they are on the front lines. Like "grunts" everywhere, they will pay the price while the folks who put in these racist or insane policies escape scott-free.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

165. Kind of like the Nazis (oh no, I used that word) used posters to spot

a Jew. Check out the Holocaust museum it's a real eye opener on racial profiling.

[Nikki Stone 1]

88. Do you have a picture of this windbreaker?

Not that it really matters to the principle of the thing. The police grossly overreacted and a man unrelated to the crime is dead.

This would not be the first time a cop killed without knowing whether his assailant was dangerous or not. In LA a number of years ago, we had a cop kill a homeless woman because he thought she was drawing a weapon. (She had no weapon. Just a shopping cart full of her pathetic belongings.) There was an outcry over this, but it eventually petered out because the woman was homeless, and, "like, who cares".

This incident of Scotland Yard basically executing an innocent Brazilian man because he was scared shitless of the cops and didn't stop may go the way of the homeless woman's story. And that would be a tragedy. Afterall, I don't want to get shot for being in the wrong place and the wrong time, wearing the wrong kind of...windbreaker. If it can happen to one person, it can happen to anyone.

[punpirate]

131. In this, and other threads, I have yet to hear that this would be...

... okay if it happened here, and to a relative of the people supporting such actions.

Some have insisted that it's okay because it followed "the rules of engagement." So, if the police make a rule of shoot to kill on appearances alone, it's okay?

Others say it was justified on whimsical technicalities ("he could set off a bomb by moving his arms"), so killing a man who was unarmed, without such a bomb, and with no ties to terrorists whatsoever, is okay?

The simple facts as we know them are that an entirely innocent, unarmed man of foreign extraction was followed by men with guns in civilian clothes from his home to the subway station, he was spooked by them, then tackled as he ran for a subway car, and after he was pinned to the floor by two of the men, the police put five shots into his head at close range in front of dozens of witnesses.

When people begin to make excuses for gross exceptions from law and decency such as this because of terrorism, the terrorists have won.

At no time is it more important than now to remember Ben Franklin's dictum: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

All those who believe that this is necessary and acceptable behavior on the part of the police must prepare themselves for the eventuality of it happening to them, too. Impromptu summary executions in public places are a clear sign that democratic institutions are falling apart. Once they begin to do so, at what point does one say, "enough is enough?"

[Warren Stupidity]

152. thank you for getting it.

[Skittles]

134. OMG WHO DID THAT WARREN?

THEY NEED AN ASS-KICKING. Are you serious with the word SUPPORT?

[Behind the Aegis]

143. not sure I agree

I don't think most (it appears there are a few) are expressing support for the execution of an innocent. Considering what has happened in London the past two weeks, it isn't really surprising, just sad. Pointing out that the police might be a little 'on-edge' isn't advocating for random killings.

[achtung_circus]

179. Gone now.

Bye Bye Homer.

[TreasonousBastard]

181. Locking, with apologies...

to Warren Stupidity and punpirate, among others, who tried to bring up some good points, and everyone else who has found an new chewtoy.

Sorry to stop the fun, but enough is enough for one night.

This time Saturday night is not the best for some decisions amongst the moderators. But, some of you knew that, didn't you?

Be that as it may, we shall be digging through the