Proposed: Constitutional Amendment that prohibits President pardoning

[Spinzonner]

members of his administration for crimes committed during his time in office.

Would include convictions, indictments, and investigations (i.e. future criminal prosecution).

The possibility - indeed even a promise - of a pardon not only makes the accused unaccountable but gives them an incentive to protect higher-ups all the way to the President so they cannot be held accountable.

Bush I used the pardon to escape accountability for his involvement in Iran-Contra and there seems little doubt the Little Bush would do the same over Plamegate.

This is a reasonable restriction of the power of the pardon that would preserve the integrity of its use and avoid the corrupt use that it is currently subject to.

[getmeouttahere]

1. And how is that going to make it through this congress?

Hell, even some of the dems wouldn't support it. Of course, I love the idea, and it should have been instituted long ago....

[Ian David]

3. Bury it as an obscure line-item in a homeland defense bill

Take a page from the GOP Playbook.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Constitutional amendments don't work that way.

Sorry.

[Ian David]

2. I had a similar idea I was floating around October 2003

I'm thinking that maybe congress needs the right of "Advise and Consent" on Presidential pardons.

[shoelace414]

4. If they wanted to restrict pardon that could do this instead

one month before an election until the day after inaguration day you can't pardon.

that would prevent lame duck pardons after the election but while still president.

[Otm Shank]

5. Presidential pardons send the wrong message:

If the President has no faith in the American judicial system, why should you?

Of course, you and I can't selectively apply the rules to suit our politics and ambitions the way he can...

[Mairead]

6. I'd sign up for that one!!

It's really astonishing what Madison et al. set us up for.

[NoPasaran]

9. Madison and crew imagined that future presidents

would be men of honor.

[Mairead]

12. Given the slick way he engineered a cast-in-concrete plutoligarchy

I don't know that I'm willing to cut him much slack

[NoPasaran]

13. Yeah, I'm sure your bolshevik buddies

would have set things up more to your liking

[Mairead]

15. "Bolshevik buddies" ? Mwahahahahaha

I never know whether to laugh or cry that you guys can say crap like that with straight faces. 'Bolshevik buddies'. 'Godless Communism'. 'Domino theory'. 'Love it or leave it'.

You guys should be dipped in something and preserved with the rest of the dinosaur fossils.

[skip fox]

7. The second W. pardons Rove and Libby for all matters pertaining

to the Plame affair, they are released from any obligation from testifying truthfully.

But it also should spell stormy political seas for the Republicans in the next election.

[skip fox]

8. impt issue, kick

:kick:

[cascadiance]

10. Probably should add that appoointed persons inheriting presidency

also can't pardon folks. Ford pardoned Nixon for example. Now perhaps there was some value there that allowed them to cut a deal with Nixon to prevent an ugly impeachment trial and other related things then, but much like the incentive here is to flaunt breaking the law because you feel that those in power will pardon you, the same would apply to people appointed in to replace outgoing folks that are fired or resign too. Perhaps make it so that a subsequently elected congress can vote to pardon someone (or a subsequently elected president as well), presuming they haven't already been put in jail yet, but that way the people arguably would have a say in making sure that those they've voted in would not pardon someone if they felt their actions serious enough (otherwise they wouldn't elect those congressmen or presidents).

[Spinzonner]

11. As much as I see your point

I think that COnsititutional Amendments should be very simple and concise both for adoption purposes and interpretation ones.

Complexity and caveats are likely to muddle the moral message behind it and to make it more difficult to pass as one group or another will see reason to either object to inclusions or complain about ommissions.

And not every political problem should necessarily be solved by a Constitutional Amendment, just the most immediate and egregious.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Ford pardoned Nixon to prevent further deviding the country

And frankly, most political experts would argue that it cost him the election.

[ClassWarrior]

14. Agreed. Laura Flanders' guest this weekend said we need to use...

...Constitutional initiatives to help spell out our values in voters' minds. Another would be a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote.

NGU.

[T Town Jake]

16. Gee...some people would almost call this proposal...

..."reactionary" - and they'd be quite right to do so. The pardon power was embedded into the Constitution for the most progressive of reasons, and remains one of the most stalwart "liberal" clauses of that document.
Funny, I remember five years ago another website, of an entirely different orientation, was jumping up and down and absolutely screaming about "abolishing" the "pardoning power" of a Democratic president. And for the same knee-jerk reasons.

[Spinzonner]

20. The proposal is NOT to abolish it

it is to constrain its use by a President for his (her) own personal and political self-interest. There would be nothing to prevent a subsequent President, of either party, from using it for the same individuals - a previous President included - who would be blocked from being pardoned by this Amendment.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. HELL NO

The pardon is one of the key checks and balances to the judicial branch. It should be limited in no way at all. The fact that Bush could hypothetically pardon his cronies (not without political ramifications, mind you) is a small price to pay for a very important (and very under-used) constitutional power.

[Spinzonner]

21. And this doesn't by and large have any effect on that

It DOES keep a corrupt Presidency from subverting the judicial process for a narrow range of defendants who have a connection to an in-office President and whose fate is inextricably linked with his political self-interest and possible criminal liability and exposure.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. It's the precedent I'm worried about