HRC urged Dems to end "long standing feud between liberals and the DLC."

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/25/AR2005072501023_pf.html

Clinton, Democrats try to forge optimistic agenda

By John Whitesides, Political Correspondents
Reuters

Monday, July 25, 2005; 5:09 PM

COLUMBUS, Ohio (Reuters) - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Monday the "hard-right ideology" of the Republicans had weakened and divided the United States and called on Democrats to "get America back in the business of building dreams again."

At a gathering of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, the group that helped her husband Bill Clinton win the presidency, the New York senator and three other potential 2008 White House contenders called on fellow Democrats to unite behind a forward-looking agenda based on national security, helping families and strengthening the economy.

"Let's start by uniting against the hard-right ideology of those who have used it to divide Americans and distract us from our common responsibilities," Clinton told about 300 elected Democratic officials gathered to explore ways to reverse the 2004 election loss.

<>Clinton urged Democrats to end party squabbles like the long-standing feud between liberals and the DLC. The DLC criticized Howard Dean, now chairman of the party, during his unsuccessful 2004 presidential campaign.

"All too often we have allowed ourselves to be split," she said. "I think it's high time for a cease-fire."

more...

[Tux]

1. Easiest solution

Let DLC join the GOP and admit they are neocons.

[Placebo]

2. Gotta agree with her on this one.

[coloradodem2005]

3. 100% agree.

I thought you meant the Human Rights Coalition.

[AlamoDemoc]

4. I just don't trust Al From and the DLC, period

[madfloridian]

5. That also said they are setting up the agenda for the party.

I do not belong to the DLC, and I do not want them setting the agenda.

They did not suggest working with the DNC on an agenda, did they?

"At a gathering of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, the group that helped her husband Bill Clinton win the presidency, the New York senator and three other potential 2008 White House contenders called on fellow Democrats to unite behind a forward-looking agenda based on national security, helping families and strengthening the economy."

The agenda is up at the DNC. I don't want the DLC setting the agenda like they have been doing for years.

[murdoch]

6. The liberals are too right-wing

I would put myself to the left of not only liberals in the Democratic Party, but the social democrats like the DSA which often have one foot in the Democratic party. So I should get behind the idea of unity with the anti-worker, pro-business DLC to save the Democratic Party? If that happens, the Democrats will have to be saved from itself. What's the point of winning if you concede to the Republicans all of their points? As Truman said, if people only have a choice between a real conservative and a pseudo-conservative, they'll pick the real thing.

[LittleClarkie]

15. There are radical Democrats

or are you saying that you're not a Democrat?

Else why would having one foot in the Democratic Party be a problem.

I ask because just as I don't know if I want the rightmost wing of the Dem Party setting the agenda, likewise I would be leary of the leftmost wing of the party setting the agenda either. Just as perhaps the DLC needs to go GOP, someone who considers liberals and social Democrats to right-wing might be better served going Green.

[Eloriel]

103. BINGO!! On every single point

Well said.

[Vincardog]

7. So quit telling us to be ReThuglican LITE. Let the DLC join the Repugs

leave the real progressives to us Democrats.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. The Destructive Likud Cancer only wants to "end the feud" on THEIR terms.

Which means we accept their corporatism, their warmongering, their PNAC ass kissing.

FUCK THAT!!

[Jack Rabbit]

9. It should end

However, it won't end by the progressives capitulating unconditionally to Al From.

[Eloriel]

104. Exactly

What Clinton is proposing is that the rest of us roll over and take it.

Put another way: there are times and places where compromise is INAPPROPRIATE. You don't let someone "compromise" and rape you just a little bit (if you can stop it at all, of course); you don't let someone abuse your child or hit your dog just a little bit; and you don't let fascists win about ANYthing if you can stop them.

Democrats in Washington have an awesome responsibility right now -- only saving the damn country -- and NONE of them are fulfilling that responsibility in any way that would make future generations at all proud -- hah! if we LIVE to HAVE future generations.

Hillary needs to get with the program, and NOT the DLC program. She gets to be a worse and worse disappointment just about every single day.

You know, there was a time when some of us suggested protesting at Dem Congresspeople's offices, and in fact there were some folks (not led by DUers) who put together just that, but DU shut down ALL talk of it since it was before an election (this must've been 2002??).

LOOKS LIKE WE WASTED the intervening years and she and others STILL need to be protested.

Im so sick of all these completely out of touch Democrats.

[lateo]

10. um...let's see...

"Let's start by uniting against the hard-right ideology of those who have used it to divide Americans and distract us from our common responsibilities,"

You mean like the ones the DLC just looks the other way on when it comes time to act like a Democrat?

"Clinton told about 300 elected Democratic officials gathered to explore ways to reverse the 2004 election loss."

Oh, I have an idea...start looking INTO THE FRAUD that happened during election 2004 Hillary. The DLC doesn't believe the data that shows there was massive electronic fraud...they think they lost fair and square.

"All too often we have allowed ourselves to be split," she said. "I think it's high time for a cease-fire."

What sort of cease-fire? One where the liberals just give in and follow the DLC?

"The sensible center is wide open in this country, for any Democrat who can credibly make the case," Warner said. "The issues in this country are no longer left vs. right or liberal vs. conservative. It's about the future vs. the past."


BULLSHIT! Jeebus H. Chrispies...this woman wants to be my President?

[OzarkDem]

11. Dean really has them worried

Amazing to hear this kind of talk from Dems who repeatedly refuse to acknowledge the reality of election fraud and vote suppression in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

Their inability to see anything outside the Beltway or to acknowledge any information or ideas that don't originate there severly undermines their credibility, IMHO.

Dean has really shaken them up, as has the revival of grassroots politics in the Democratic Party. Its really a shame, but hopefully the Vichy Dems will learn something from it.

[mrdmk]

39. I think Dean is rasing more money than they are. Is that a hoot!

:applause:

[madfloridian]

42. They don't have to reveal their donations or the source.

Not the way they are set up. The DNC has to let it all be known.

[emcguffie]

92. "Vichy Dems". That's great. NT

[applegrove]

12. Being a "third wayer" in no way means you are a neocon. There is

HUGE difference between the two. In Canada all the liberals are third wayers - even some of the NDP too.

So is Canada wrong to have a party in power that fights for health care & to keep it from being private & fights for world trade & fights for institutions like the UN and fights for good education across the board & fights for peace in Afghanistan and at home?

What the neocons in your country have done is try to wedge the far left from the middle. And if you let them - they will have succeeded with neocon rule for the next twenty years.

Nader does not have an economic policy. You need a party with an actual economic policy and the desire to see transparency in markets & regulations where the markets fail.

You do not have enough people on the far left to elect a president.

So if you keep spreading that Hillary & her ilk are neocons - you may get that.

Interesting to note that everywhere far left parties get into party these days - they end up pursuing the "third way" policies economically.

If you have anything in your home or eat anything you didn't produce yourself - you are in a market.

Hillary is a liberal. Same as most of the world. Don't fall into the trap.

So by rejecting a Hillary you are rejected the exact type of government we have in Canada. One that looked at the Bush WH intelligence and whose agents thereof said: "this intelligence follows no previously known intelligence patterns - we cannot go to war on Iraq"

A Democratic Big tent smashed to a thousand pieces by Karl Rove & the GOP. They purposely activate you with rumor and diebold. Then they wedge the party apart. Why? Because they want to re brand Democrats as far left fringe. Why do you think they 'got rid of the world LIBERAL'.

[madfloridian]

16. Well, if we do it the DLC way, they have already succeeded.

Words just don't mean anything when they are trying to define the Democratic agenda, and they act more like Republicans.

[applegrove]

20. Look - they fell for the war in Iraq. And now they have no choice but

to stay for a bit. They are for free trade. And you know - freer trade is the thing that will create jobs from here on in. Yes we will loose jobs. But we will gain some. If you say you care about other people in the world you cannot be against freer trade. Trade is what will make the lives of everyone in the Less Developed nations have a chance at decent lives. All the intellectuals around the world are for freer trade.

That is what liberalism means: that people outside of established hierarchies (aristocrats) have access to do business anywhere they want.

DNC isn't saying you have to have no regulations or standards. They do not mean that at all.

In the 20th Century - the USA essentially had corporations that traded with the world while 1) Europe was recovering from war and enfeebled for a long time 2) Communist world was not trading 3) Third World nations had no way of competing because they were too poor.

That luck - that made America so rich - is gone. We now have to compete with 1, 2 & 3 in a fair way. Or you become a conservative (who want protection and things to stay like they were in the 1950s).

To say the DNC is like neocon hides the facts that Neocon are actually partially Liberals. They stole some liberal policies on trade because the conservative ones didn't work. So DNC is like neocons in some ways. But not in the ways that matter. And the movement is not DNC to neocons. But GOP to Liberal trade views. Plus the neocons are fascists who think USA should build up a uber-elite, like the Saudis have now, so that they can dominate the world. DNC are not such fascists. Liberal polices are ours. Neocons will take them away from you if you let them. Why? These trade policies are what made America so rich for so long. And now we have to play a little fairer with the world. Prices of items will come down as wages do.

Don't let the neocons take over moderates. Neocons in no way deserve the trust of any American.

[madfloridian]

31. DLC is not the DNC. DLC does not represent the people in the party.

Howard Dean is chair of the DNC. The DLC is a think tank, right of center.

They are no longer going to set the agenda. That time is over.

[applegrove]

38. Sorry. Makes no difference. There are still ideas. Shades of grey.

Neocons are a small cabal of megolomaniacs.

[madfloridian]

46. The DLC is a think tank, the DNC is the group I support.

There is a difference in the two now, with Dean as chair. He is trying to raise money from the people first, corporations 2nd.

[applegrove]

57. And those blue corporations. Should they feel alienated? We need

corporations. We need not to exclude people doing R & D. Nano-technology will be the "plastic" or "nylon" of this century. Capable of cleaning the environment (surfaces on tunnels and concrete that actually break down exhaust pollution because of their chemical structure.

Some of this stuff comes out of R & D in the defense industry. I'm not against someone having the technology to turn of somebody elses satellites if they drop a bomb on someone else.

The neocons are the problem. No focusing America on R&D and research. Nothing wrong with strong policy on terror.

Just get rid of the delusional neocons who think they can solve problems using myths.

Defense industry came up with the internet. That saves alot of gas.

The comparative advantage in trade goes to the people who come up with the technology.

So being pro-strong defense does not mean you have to be for assault rifles in gym class. Or streaming kids into being desperate enough to volunteer for the army by making education so class dependant that there is no mobility between classes once someone gets to high school.

There are huge shades of grey.

Would you rather US be good at producing civil goods like clothes or would you rather that they focus on technological industries?

Neocons will happily smash any ties Democrats have to the defense industry. Cause they know satellites and alternative science (fuel) is where the 21st Century is at.

[MissWaverly]

19. It's different here in the U.S.

what I heard today is that the DLC wants to reform the Democratic party, they say that we have been too soft on Defense and that the
country keeps voting for Republicans because they want security. They say the top priority will be National Security (i.e. build up the military). I want a Democratic Party that recognizes that the needs of the average american have been ignored while the current war
machine has been assembled. I am not talking about the average G.I. Joe but these predator drones and other high tech weapons, not to
mention napalm, depleted uranium, etc., proposed budget for bunker busting nuclear weapons which are estimated to have a kill rate of
a million, microwave assault weapons, etc. Now the average american
taxpayer with a tax contribution of $4,000 spends $1700 of that money to feed the US war machine. We must have a party that will stand up to the military industrial complex before it is too late.

[applegrove]

26. The country that has the best competitive advantage in technology will

be the country that wins this century. All the technology is in the defense industry. All the breaking science is in computer, nano, internet, etc.

It is the policy of the USA to give up being a producer of civil goods and let the Chinese have that. USA will keep its competitive advantage by focusing on high tech. Nano technology.

Defense industry is a part of that. I dislike them too - but it is part in parcel with whether the USA will succeed in this century. Think of all the industrial offshoots of research? Nylon, plastic, computers, internet, etc.

I think that is what the Dems are saying. I don't think any DNC member wants private high-schools who teach assault weapon class for Gym and then steam 12 year olds into the army by telling them they cannot take health or science class. They have to take military history & combat instead.

There are big, huge differences in the how Dems see the world. For sure we need to be tough on terrorism. For sure if Bush made a boondoggle and inhumanely & improperly planned war - Dems say you cannot just walk away until there is some sort of chance to in the coming years that Iraq would have some sort of control over Iraq when USA leaves. Think how they feel about being lied to in the run up to war? DNC had 10 years to go after Saddam and didn't.

They are not the same as neocon hawks. Some branches of the party seem like it but they are not. Lieberman is a hawk for obvious reasons - he comes from a people who got kicked around the world and have their first home in Israel. That is him being honest with himself. But all the other times - he has a good voting record on Liberal issues. He cares about people. So - let some Dem hawks be hawkish and know that it does not mean the same thing as with this neocons.

Variety is important. And so is coming together in the end.

[MissWaverly]

30. Disagree

I see the emergence of the U.S. as an empire, constantly on the march
involved in global skirmishes, why not shut down Walter Reed, because the soldiers will be shipped out on a 1 way trip, that is what this endless return to Iraq is all about for our enlisted men. It is a war designed to fatten corporate purses, it's not for a military objective at all, it's purpose is constant flux, because that is what drives the war machines profitably for the corporations.
Iraq has been a huge corporate success but not a military one. This will be the beginning of a never ending series of military engagements around the world which will be set upon the backs of the middle class and the poor to pay for while the rich sit on the sidelines unwilling to pay taxes or to contribute soldiers to support
their objectives.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissWaverly]

45. I believe in government by the people not corporations

I believe that we have sacrificed our young american soldiers for
some corporate bottom line and that is wrong. I think that we should
invest in technology, we will need to commit to replace to fossil fuels, of course, but I do not worship a global war machine, there are other areas which will do far more good and I do not put corporate goals and objectives above the welfare of the american people. I feel that we are passing out of the era of the modern robber barons and I will not miss it. I do not want our party usurped by corporate interests, there is too much at stake. We must
become a responsible member of the world community again. We must rebuild our economy and we must resolve the situation in Iraq.

[applegrove]

59. I agree. But did you know that the corporations who make it to the

top in the next 20 years will not have competitors who can reach them? The USA has 51 of the world's largest corporations. Do you want to see this dwindled? For sure Haliburton is a blight on the face of the earth. For sure Oil companies are scary.

Can we no reward the corporate bosses that go for cabal ism and elitism and reward the corporations that compete but have transparency and respect international law?

We cannot just throw away the whole structure because of some bad examples. We need to support Dems like the guy in New York who goes after unfair coroporate practices.

[MissWaverly]

100. I understand your worries but there will be a backlash

this cannot be just a turnaround in corporate lobbyists, so lobbyists
backing the DLC can have a turn at the trough, no, there has to be
a focus on real objectives, not pork barrel, we are going to have to
trim military spending to spend money on badly neglected social programs. We are going to have to prioritize with fossil fuels and stem cell research as top priorities. We have many soldiers with catastrophic injuries from this war, if ever this was a need for
miracle medical cures, it is now.

[MissWaverly]

107. I just sent a campaign contribution to Paul Hackett

he is the Iraq war veteran that is running for office in Ohio, of course, the GOP are trying to stomp him into the ground, of course they support our troops. I believe that our young people are too valuable to waste on trumped up wars based on lies, I am glad to see
someone with firsthand knowledge of the Iraq war and the soldier's viewpoint is running for office.

[Catrina]

78. Sorry, I don't buy

that they're mad they were lied to about the war. We knew we were being lied to, they should have, and some of them did, those are the ones I trust. If Rep. Conyers knew, Hillary should have known. She and others like her in the party do not represent me, even though she is my Senator, I supported her husband against the attacks of the rightwing, and now I watch them all cozying up to each other, and wonder 'who can we trust'?

The DLC is rightwing, I will never support any candidate who is affiliated with them. They have lost the last three elections because there was no difference in their agenda and the right's, especially when it comes to war!! I had great difficulty arguing with my rightwing friends against the war, when they consistently pointed out to me that Democrats supported it as did the candidate.

I think the party was told by the people after the last election, either start acting like an opposition party, or we will go elsewhere. That's why Dean is now chairman of the party. The DLC does not want Dean.

As far as I am concerned, we need to get rid of all phony Democrats and replace them with people who represent the working people. The DLC represents Corporate America ~ I don't know what they are doing attached to the Democratic Party, to be honest. Unless it is to make sure the Republicans win every election. If so, they have been very successful.

[applegrove]

99. They won in 2000. They lost in 2004 because too many people

were confused by the smoke & mirrors and the constant barrage of propaganda.

People are becoming more discerning.

[reformedrepub]

52. I agree but

the problem is until we can win back the White House, and control of congress, we cant do a DAMN thing about any of the stuff you cite. We cant reform our foreign policy, until we get Dems in positions to do it. We cant undo the Military/Industrial complex, until we get enough votes in the Senate and House to stop it. The problem we have is we have lost people who should be voting Dem, on social issues. How the Hell is Bush even close in Ohio (I know diebold but,) when that state's manufacturing base has been shredded? How do we constantly lose southern state after southern state, when most of that part of the country was reliably Democrat? I know, I used to be a Repub, and I can tell you that in many parts of the country, the right has been very successful in painting the Democratic party as the anti-american, anti-military and anti-god party. We have to find a way to end that.

[applegrove]

74. We have to get together. Not be pulled apart. Third Wayers are not

the problem.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. And we will never get back into power until we present a public image

other than reacting to the Republicans.

I want to see the Dems craft an agenda that actually speaks to the needs of the American people, not panders to what the PR machine has told them is important.

[MissWaverly]

102. I agree but these are evil times

we will not progress by adopting the republican party's strategy as our own. We must take back the country, and I am willing to compromise but I am not willing to let our party be taken over by war mongers and bigots just so the corporations can hedge their bets and insure their 140% profit rates (current profit of independent oil companies).

[emcguffie]

94. I think we all deeply resent

-- the DLC deciding for us what our priorities are, and deciding for us who the presidential nominee should be. It did work once, but that was because the Democratic Party was being reactionary, just reacting, to the Right.

Now it's time to generate, not react, and the DLC is not generating. They chase the Right.

If they get to set the agenda, we lose a lot of liberals who decide to stay home and not vote at all. And that is what has been happening.

Please remember, B*** didn't win the elections. Neither of them.

[Tummler]

13. Col. Sanders urges end to "long standing feud between chickens and KFC"

In related news ...

[Dr.Phool]

23. My bumper sticker sez

Any working person who votes Republican is like a chicken who supports Colonel Sanders.

[quiet.american]

14. Well, I'll look then, for the DLC to put their money where their mouth is

Let them extend an olive branch.

[MissWaverly]

22. the only problem I see is that their money is OUR money

I don't like the current build up the military anthem I hear being
sung by the DLC, if they want to do Republican lite, they should join
the GOP

[quiet.american]

41. They outdo Repubs so well, there's not much "lite" about them.n/t

[MissWaverly]

49. key objective is to keep the lobbyists off our back

they are abandoning the elephant, they can smell trouble in the wind,
now they want to ride us, goading us into keeping up their profit margins at the expense of the well being of this country, I do not believe that mercury in our tuna is a great idea, that polluters should have no responsibility for their actions or the dozens of nefarious projects that have grown up like weeds since 2000 should remain to fester like boils on the American society, (ie we found this prescription drug has killed a lot of people, lets put it back on the market).

[napi21]

17. Who is the head of the DLC? Can we get them to meet with Howard?

I trust Howard not to give aw3ay the store! I trust his judgement, and I do believe we have to come together as a Party.

Notice, I said THEY meet with Howard! Perhapse, a meeting on neutral ground somewhere?

It hurts all of us if we are divided and sometimes eating each other! All that does is play into the Pubs hands.

[Dr.Phool]

24. Vilsac, Governor of Iowa.

[Robbien]

28. Gov. Vilsack is and he already publically stated Dean does not speak

for him.

DLCers are the ones who go on national media and spit on Progressives and then they are having the nerve to say we should unite and support them. Not once has any Progressive spit on a DLCer on national media but DLCers take pot shots at Progressives every chance they get.

[napi21]

43. OK, so that's the way it's been, Does it HAVE to stay that way?

I'm going to send emails to both the DNC and the DLC, and ask both to meet! I don't care where, but this split is just nuts!

I happen to think there are smart people on both side of this mess, and we've got to gome together in order to win!

This stupid fight reminds me of the old stories of the Hatfields and the McCoys! They fought so long, nobody even remembered why they were fighting or what they were fighting for!

There should be a common goal and that is WINNING the Senate, the House and the Presidency!

Internal fighting will kill any organization!

[Robbien]

47. Since Progressives view the DLC as the RNC in sheep's clothing

and the DLC calls Progressives unpatriotic and goes to the media to spit on Progressives

there is no middle ground.

[napi21]

55. That's the hattfields and MCoys again! This is nuts!

What is the end result we all want?

Isn't it to be the majority again?

We all have to look at what it going to take to win!

I personally care which side of the Dem party is right or wrong! Get over this constant griping. Sit down at the damn table and work things out!

I detest the administration that's currently in power! I want them OUT, and we sure arent' going to do it by fighting amoung ourselves!!

[Robbien]

58. The Hatfields and McCoys were fighting just to fight

they didn't even know why they were fighting.

You say sit down at the table and work things out but the policies are polar opposites.

For instance, how do you work out the issue of corporatism. The DLC supports legislation which gives more rights to corporations. Progressives supports legislation which will put back regulations on corporations. Of course the middle ground would be to leave corporations as is. Corporations and the DLC will not allow that to happen.

The DLC has no interest in compromising. They are offering no compromise in this "unity" drive of theirs.

[napi21]

60. You work it out the same way unions and corps do.

When you come to the table, you hate each other, and you agree on NOTHING! But you know for the Company (or in this case the Party) to survive, you have to find a way to work this out!

Nobody want's to give an inch, but eventually, they do.

That HAS to happen in the Dem Party! We can't win with all this divisivness and hatered. Nobody has to gine in on their core beliefs, but both sides can and must align for the one common goal!

[Robbien]

66. It won't happen because the DLC has no interest in negotiating

as you can see by the tactics being used today. They have their own little conference in Ohio determining what the party should stand for and then send out their propaganda machine demanding Progressives fall in line for the sake of "unity". No discussion. No cooperation. Just the same old demand "Do what we say".

Dean is starting to fall in line by talking about big tent on choice. Soon most all of the Democratic party leaders will cave and fall in line with the DLC and the grassroots will be left once again without representation. Someone Kerry-like will be once again put up for nomination and the DLC propaganda machine will say you have to vote DLC, if not you get RNC. Then once again the Democratic party will lose because why vote DLC if you can have the real thing in RNC.

[me b zola]

75. New boss, same as the old boss

Corporate interests are directly opposed to the peoples interest. Period.

The dlc clearly represents corporate interest. The dlc trying to gather grassroot support is like a corporate rep at a Moll Maquire meeting in 1877 telling the workers how they must work together for their own good.

[Eloriel]

110. Napi, you're seriously missing something here

You are assuming that the DLC is or would negotiate in good faith, which is to say that they really would want to work things out. You are further assuming that the DLC really IS on the same side as the rest of us, or has similar goals (as unions and corporations ultimately do, typically -- to reach some sort of agreement and go forward so the company involved can continue to function).

There is not only NO EVIDENCE that either of these assumptions is true, there is actually considerable support for just the opposite conclusion, AFAIC.

Here's just a few links that may cause you too to think otherwise:

DLC
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin

How the DLC Does It, Robert Dreyfuss, TAP
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

Democrats for Wolfowitz
(see esp. Tinoire's post #20) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1688529 )
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1687818&page=

LINKS - What every DUer and every Dem needs to know about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=

Let's be REALLY honest about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23262&forum=DCForumID60&archive=


Outing the "New Democrats" -- Pukes in Progressive Clothing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1435&forum=DCForumID34

Everyone who is a fan of the DLC, needs to read this post,
(Devils Advocate NZ's post is included)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11323&forum=DCForumID60#114

Kerry, the New Democrats, and American Military Hegemony
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=326015#326061

Ask the questions NOW of the DLC and Clinton. Corporate funding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1372759#1373432

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735


(OMG! The PNAC/DLC Connection!)No More Moore: DLC Joins the Witch-Hunt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2784312
Link: http://nypress.com/17/48/news&columns/taibbi.cfm

[eridani]

79. In all fairness--

--that's because progressives have no access to national media. Our potshots at DLC are like the tree falling in the forest with no one around to see or hear.

[Eloriel]

105. and "the Vilsack machine" worked mighty damned hard to sink Dean

including his/their share of dirty tricks. I'm sure Dean is too big a fella to hold grudges or let those old primary wars affect party unity from his standpoint, but I would imagine there's no love lost there.

Dean has, however, repudiated the DLC and for damned good reason ASIDE from their unwarranted, unprovoked attacks on him AND his followers (tho no repudiations since he's been DNC Chair that I can recall, and more's the pit since it's not like the DLC has changed spots or anything).

The DLC is simply NOT an organization whose goals are typically in consonance with traditional Democratic goals. There's therefore no POINT in "talking" with them, only defeating them and IMO Dean made a very, very good start when he ran for, worked HARD for, and won the DNC Chair. He continues to do that by working hard to increase grassroots infrastructure, Dem Party organizations in all 50 states, and especially corporation-free grassroots FUNDING (so the Dem party isn't beholden to corporate interests but instead are accountable to The People).

WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT HOWARD DEAN so he can continue to support us, and continue to out-do and ultimtely defeat the DLC stands for which is contrary to what is good for working people and the country.

[madfloridian]

18. Read The Hill today. I don't have the heart to post it.

Not just DLC, either, but pulling to the right in every way. And I am actually very moderate in my views..and I am getting offended.

A woman has the right to birth control and privacy to make health decisions, period. Read The Hill. Connect the dots.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. 3 prongs of dlc screwage

1) national security: continue the carnage in Iraq whole PNAC agenda.

2) helping families: chip away at abortion rights to pander to the right wing bigot vote, save us all from naughty bits in video games, do nothing about universal health care, college tuition, or the insane tax cuts for the wealthy that are draining the social security trust fund. Of course pass a lot of feel good legislation, for example some more draconian drug laws to keep the prison industry humming. Make sure kids are doing nothing but taking tests in school as otherwise they might learn something and wise up to your lame bullshit.

3) strengthen the economy by screwing domestic workers by outsourcing even more manufacturing and service jobs under the banner of 'free trade' while ignoring the exploitation of foreign workers and the savaging of the environment, resist all efforts to move towards fair trade agreements.

No thanks hillary. All take and pillage.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChiciB1]

27. The More She Says...

the more I'm sure I DON'T want her as my candidate!!

Sorry, she just doesn't do it for me anymore, and there was a time I had immense respect for her!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. oh so hillary thinks "liberal" is a bad word....FUCK YOU MY SENATOR !.....

i am so sorry now that i voted for you and i will do all in my power to diasuade eveyone i come in contact with to vote AGAINST you !

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reformedrepub]

54. Else

I dont think she thinks it's a bad word, I think what she meant was, the right has been able to convince most of America, that liberal is synonomous with: anti-american, anti-religion, anti-military and anti-"normal" america. If you ask Joe Citizen what the definition in the dictionary is for liberal, he or she will probably use the words: hippie, commie, pinko and/or america hater.

[kath]

56. Yeah, fuck you Hillary, and fuck the DLC.

[Eloriel]

111. No, no -- do everything in your power to find someone to run against

her. And it doesn't MATTER if there's no way the other person can win -- it's important to (a) stand UP to this shit and (b) let her know she is accountable to The People and (c) educate her on some of the finer issues of representing rank and file people in her PARTY -- instead of, for example, Repugs and Repug Lite.

[Gold Metal Flake]

32. Hil, I always knew you had it in you.

Now that you've pushed it out, pick it up and take it with you. Buh bye.

[Kitsune]

33. The deepest circle of Hell is reserved for betrayers.

That pretty much sums up my feelings about the DLC.

[Guaranteed]

34. They can't win without Dean and his supporters. Hold fast. nt

[Ysolde]

36. I'm not putting down my weapons until the DLC give up their corporate

trough. These people keep doing the same things expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity. Until they start behaving like Democrats and support the people instead of MBNA, Diebold, oil companies, war profiteers, CEOs, etc., they don't speak for me. I'm tired of playing it "their way". It hasn't worked. They are no different than the Bushistas as far as Joe six-pack is concerned, so why would Joe vote for them? Hillary is trying to appear "moderate" to appease the middle. Well, she's not getting my support. Dean has it right. He has my support and my money.

[Cha]

62. Right, it's not as if they've had

a "Winning" message these last 5 Long Years!

What is hillary and the gang so freakin' afraid of?

That people will have a say in government?

Didn't I just read that she teamed up with newt gingrich on something?

[OzarkDem]

40. CAP vs DLC

DLC no longer has any good ideas for public policy. They've been eclipsed by groups like Center for American Progress who've done a much better job of formulating workable, intelligent policies from domestic policy to national security. There's no comparison.

And CAP is the perfect example of third way policymaking - they go out and do the research, coming up with truly original, yet workable solutions.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

44. DLC = Democrats Losing Constantly.

How do they figure on winning next time? It didn't work last time -- especially since they apparently refuse even to investigate election fraud. Ptui on you, Hillary.

[AntiCoup2K4]

51. Why should they investigate electoral fraud?

They wanted to lose in the first place. Kerry got the phenomenal amount of votes he did in spite of the DLC's best efforts to run the shittiest campaign in history.

[Placebo]

112. Now that's funny

the DLC is responsible for more of the political success of our party than the likes of Howard Dean and the fringe left are.

[Larkspur]

48. The DLC definition of unification = silencing dissent of the DLC + letting

the DLC run the Dem Party into the ground.

No way Hillary! Go send Chelsea off to the Army boot camp.

[bbgrunt]

50. Hillary is now no different than Lieberman

[welshTerrier2]

53. Clinton: "I think it's high time for a cease-fire."

well, fine ... the Democrats are going nowhere without building party unity ... the left needs it; the center needs it; the right of center needs it ...

Clinton wants a cease fire? fine ... but she better be willing to talk about a more democratic (small "d") process in the Party ... it is time to stop shoving candidates down our throats ... it is time to stop shoving a platform down on our throats ... it is time to muzzle divisive jackasses like Will Marshall ...

and the issues? 1. internal party processes need to change to give a greater voice to each and every Democrat 2. out of Iraq now (or very soon) with foreign policy getting EQUAL ATTENTION to domestic policy and 3. an acknowledgment that this country's foreign policy has, for many years, under both Democrats and republicans, been for the sole benefit of trans-national corporations and not the American people ...

if Clinton is calling a truce without any constructive ideas on bridging the policy divide, her words are just more hollowness from the DLC ... if you want to talk about change, put something of substance on the table ... otherwise, it just sounds like she's calling for the left to support her candidacy (ABB?) so she can win ... fool me once (ABB), shame on me ... i won't be fooled again (Who) ...

[Donna Zen]

63. I'm catching on to how this works!

First up: Set the agenda

Next up: Tell everyone that they must buy into it or they are against "unity."

I see...

Okay everyone...it's time to learn to love the bomb.

[welshTerrier2]

70. if the DLC wants Party unity ...

i'm all for it ...

but i'm NOT for it just so Democrats can win ... i'm for it so that ALL Democrats can have a greater opportunity to really define the Party's platform ...

i believe most Democrats realize that we will NOT achieve anything in Iraq no matter how long we stay ... well, most Democrats do except those elected Dems who keep voting to prolong the occupation ...

and i think most Democrats understand that big money carries far too much influence in our political process and that people like the Clinton's are very good at playing the game ... that is NOT what Democrats want ...

without party unity, i'm afraid the causes most of us support are not going anywhere anytime soon ... but that doesn't mean i'm willing to go along with another ABB election ... i am DONE WITH THAT ... do i have absolutes? rigid principles? litmus tests? you're damned straight i do ...

i might be willing to seek common ground on some issues with the Party's centrists ... but that will happen only in a climate of real intra-party democracy ... push the "we need unity to win" meme without any substance or any change and see what happens ... as i've written many times since the last election, these are very dangerous times for the Democratic Party ... those in power may believe the left has nowhere else to go ... they may believe progressives represent a small, insignificant number of Democrats ... they may believe that ABB is alive and well ... for all of our sakes, let's hope they don't ...

the left has had it with the status quo in the Democratic Party ... groups like PDA have agreed to vote for Green candidates if no progressive Democrat opposes them ... these were the people pushing the idea that you shouldn't walk out on the Party; you should try to change things from the inside ... the Democrats better wake up before it's too late ... their activists don't want to play their stupid games anymore ... perhaps Clinton's statement today was a recognition of that reality ... but again, without making real changes so that all Democrats feel represented, all she's delivered thus far is empty rhetoric ...

[Eloriel]

108. Exccellent post, possibly the best in the thread

Important points.

And I can't resist posting a link to something that this thread and the other thread made me realize about this new "campaign" to "unite" us:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4196484&mesg_id=4197438

[Q]

61. Notice there is no call for unity in participating in setting the agenda?

Reading between the lines: We either follow the DLC's agenda or they'll go ahead and do it without us.

Calling for unity without offering to share power with progressive and liberals is nothing more than an empty gesture. They set the agenda and we're expected to simply follow? Not going to happen.

[derby378]

64. "Fuck the DLC"

Fuck the DLC
They wrecked our party system
They don't give a damn 'cause they're
Career politicians
They trashed Howard Dean
They cost Kerry the election
It's time we kick them out and
Take the Dems in new directions

BAYH and TAUSCHER - time to clean your fuckin' desks
LIEBERMAN and LANDRIEU - selling out has made you lame
HILLARY and BYRON - last chance to jump the ship
So CONYERS and BOXER can live in peace without these dicks

(Sung to the tune of Fuck the Middle East by S.O.D. Sing it in the car, in the shower, at your next Democratic Party meeting, or anywhere you feel like singing!)

[AntiCoup2K4]

67. Oh HELL yeah!

The new #1 song on the DU charts! :headbang:

[derby378]

69. Thanks!

For best results, slam-dance Al From while shouting the lyrics. :silly:

[Donna Zen]

65. An idea for unity:

Disband the DLC.

We can then all be Democrats reflecting a broad spectrum that votes for people rather than corporate donors.

And...and...everyones representative gets to have a say in the agenda. Why, we can even call for transparency in government.

[AntiCoup2K4]

68. I'll second that!

Moderates I can deal with. Sellouts I can't. Cut out the DLC cancer and let's move forward.

[welshTerrier2]

71. great idea ...

if you want unity, what's the point in having a sub-government inside the Party ... we're either all part of the team or we're not ...

[Donna Zen]

72. psssst!

And that's why this is not a call for unity at all. This is just part of Hillary's campaign. Have your DLC cake, shame the liberals with a call of unity to vote for you, and then...well, who gets to eat it?

Have you read "The 2% Solution"? The best explanation of the DLC ever, little scraplettes to the masses.


Of course we wouldn't need another 100,000 troups if the DLC hadn't voted for this war.

[flpoljunkie]

86. "We wouldn't need another 100k troops, if DLC hadn't voted for this war."

Excellent point! Could not pass up repeating this in subject line so it would not be missed.

[flpoljunkie]

81. Excellent idea! Disband the DLC. Their existence divides the party.

Let Howard Dean run the DNC--it is far closer to the ideals of the Democratic party--government of, by and for the people.

Ignore the DLC corporatists! They are not the answer to our problems, they are the problem.

[ClassWarrior]

91. Oooooh... I like. Nice job re-framing.

NGU.

[bvar22]

73. Deja Vu all over again!

Been there, done that in 2004.
The Left united behind a moderate running on a conservative "PRO-Imperial War" platform written by the DLC and Corporate America that tried to romance Republicans by saying, "SEE. We're just like them, only nicer." :puke:

Worked REAL GOOD, didn't it.

I have a better idea. Why don't you CorpoGoons in the DLC unite behind the American people and support an agenda that benefits the Working American?
Then I'll accept your cease fire.
Until then, I"M ON YOUR ASS!!!!!!

[orleans]

76. WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???

um....gee...i don't know....
maybe if hillary decided to join the party of democrats it might work better. didn't she just say she would vote to confirm roberts without first waiting to find out what the hell he was doing in the 2000 election? maybe if she wouldn't be in such a f*cking hurry to kiss the gop ass we'd be able to get along a little better.

[Skidmore]

77. She knows she has the support of the DLC and

can't win the party nomination without liberal support. "Cease-fire", my tush. What she is looking for is the liberal end of the party to acquiesce and allow the DLC to run things to facilitate her nomination. Well, we've seen what happened the last two elections when this happened. I won't vote for anyone with DLC connections.

[Hippo_Tron]

80. Okay I agree with Hillary, but how about some action instead of just talk

[CWebster]

83. Her actions don't match her rhetoric.

What a JOKE!!!!

Uniting against Right-wing ideology should start with her--She, who aligns herself with those who triangulate off of--rather than oppose Right wing ideology, and, at the same time, attack those who consitantly attack Right-wing ideology.

What a pathetic pep rally bandwagon they are promoting.

[bowens43]

84. Sorry Hillary

The DLC is the problem. As long as they influence our candidates we will continue to lose.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

87. Without fair elections it doesn't matter

That is why I am strongly considering joining the Green Party. Without fair elections, the only ones who have a chance of winning are the ones in bed with the right. In the past, we couldn't succeed with a third party because the Dem vote would be split.

Well, what better time to join the ranks of those who really do care about democracy? No chance of a fair election....so maybe we should spend these years behind the iron curtain building a party that really is FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. "Peace with the DLC?"

Uh, sorry DLC, I'm old enough to remember who declared war first. It was Sam Nunn and Al Gore (yes, the one so many of you love so much) and other Southern Democrats who enabled Ronald Reagan to start ruining this country. Yes, boys and girls, the Dems had a majority in both houses when Reagan was elected, and they could have stopped his agenda cold, if it hadn't been for the ass-lickers in the DLC.

For nearly 25 years, I've watched the DLC belittle and undercut every single political figure who spoke for the common people or for a non-militarized foreign policy.

The "peace overtures" they're making to the left wing of the party are reminiscent of the overtures that the U.S. made to Japan at the end of World War II, nothing short of unconditional surrender.

No thanks.

[Pithy Cherub]

88. Hillary: The DLC's spokesmodel is calling for unity. Bwhahahaha!

No way! No how is it time for the DLC to be in charge of ANOTHER flawed message, dead donkey strategy or crippled campaign unless you truly espouse that being a sellout on principles is the key to liberty, happiness and prosperity!

[MadHound]

89. I think it is high time for a divorce

It is obvious that the corporatistas in the DLC are going to ruin the Democratic Party, while achieving nothing in the process, other than enabling big business to continue its pillaging of this country. Those of us on the left cannot, either physically, spiritually or morally, agree with these people on the direction that they want to party to head.

Therefore, it should be plenty clear that the time for a split is here. It is time for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party left, and joined a party that is more in line with their way of thinking, ie the Greens. Put all of the cards on the table, and figure out once and for all who is going to be speaking for the left in this country.

And leave the shell of the Democratic Party behind for the DLC, so that they can complete their merger process with the 'Pugs, and our problems will be solved, we will have all of our cards on the table, and know exactly who is representing what in this country.

Until such a split takes place, all we're going to do is yell and fight our way into oblivion. It is time for people to stand up and be counted.

[ClassWarrior]

90. Agreed. Progressives need to start USING the DLC slugs for OUR ends.

We'll gladly take their votes.

NGU.

[fujiyama]

93. Look there are some decent DLC senators out there

and I know some that had the sense to vote against the war (like my own senator).

But I'm not going to sit back and have Al From and Will Marshal set the agenda and be expected to keep quiet. I read their screed, DLC: Some Bullshit on Fake Patriotism and How to pander to the right.

Until the DLC is able to admit that the war was a mistake (not "how we went to war", but going in the first place) and stop blaming liberals for every failure, I have no confidence in them. It's not just a matter of politics. It's a matter of bad policy. The DLC has shown itself incapable of giving an honest sensible alternative to Bush and the repukes. There is a reason most Americans don't view the Dems more favorably even inspite of recent republican debacles like Schaivo, DeLay and Rovegate. They don't see a clear alternative.

[kenny blankenship]

95. And as soon as the DLC stops ATTACKING Dems

and their futile strategy of triangulating against Democratic politicians and values, the "feud" will stop.

[Demobrat]

96. In other words lets all stop fighting and get behind Hillary.

NOT.

[CWebster]

97. Trying to galvinize that Dean momentum

at the drop of a hat. As if that is all it takes.

[kenny blankenship]

98. stop fighting BACK

they mean

[ibegurpard]

101. Hillary hitching herself to the DLC wagon

will do nothing to help end that split. It will simply damage her image more among those already disappointed by her performance as a Senator.

[rniel]

106. Agree?

All us democrats might as well band together and vote for Republicans. There's not much difference between them anyway right.

[paineinthearse]

109. My job went to Asia, where is the common ground btwn DLC and progressives?

Does DLC have a public policy statement on NAFTA, CAFTA, free trade policy, fair trade policy and globalization?