I'm a Left to Centrist leaning Democrat, are there any others here ?

[Fluffdaddy]

I believe the hard left wing of our party will never get the GOP out of power. Centrist leaning Democrats like myself, Senator
Hillary Clinton,Senator Tom Carper and the like is the wing of our party that will get us back in power again. Or we can roll with the likes of Dr Dean and Senator John Kerry and have 4 years of Jeb to look forward too.

We Must take one or two of those soft Red States to get back in power and the hard left wing of our party can Never do this. Bill Clinton knew this and it looks like a little of his know-how has rubbed off on Senator Hillary Clinton. Play the center when you are running for office and move back to the left "a little" once you're in power ;-)



Disclaimer: I sent money to support Senator john kerry once he was DEM's choice. But he was never my guy, to soft on defense spending for me. But I'm more of a Hawk then most here
:nuke: :-)

[Mass]

1. Dean and Kerry left wing of the Democratic Party?

I am not sure you are in the mainstream here...

[MisterLiberal]

50. Besides

We've never TRIED any candidate anywhere NEAR "hard left" have we?

We need to field one first, before we give up, don't we?

Winning isn't everything, otherwise, why not just get Jeb to put a (D) in front of his name?

Would you really count that as a win????

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I respect your opinion, but I disagree

If given the choice between a Republican and a Republican-light, I think people will choose a Republican. We can't sell their message better than they can.

As far as the Clintons are concerned, Bill Clinton won the presidency for two reasons - Ross Perot and the fact that he is one of the finest campaigners our generation will ever come across. His policies weren't what got him into office.

I do, however, agree that on a more local level, Centrist Democrats are the only ones who can win. Statewide offices in places like Nebraska or South Carolina will never be won by a true liberal, and our national party should give more leeway to those Democrats, as we need them to win. On a national level, however, we have to tailor our message to the Southwest and Midwest. Appeal to the more true conservatives by playing every issue we might lose on as being a "states rights issue". Preach the fiscal conservatism we practice. We don't have to compromise on our ideals to win in those areas. All we have to do is get the message right.

[nickinSTL]

3. Kerry and Dean are NOT left-wing

If you'd said Kucinich, maybe.

Kerry is pretty center of the road on most things, and Dean, despite the media's liberalizing him, is a moderate.

We've been following the centrist Dems, and what has it gotten us?

We've lost both houses of Congress, the Presidency, and now the Repubs will stack the SC.

Let's try actually BEING AN OPPOSITION PARTY...rather than copying whatever the Repubs want.

[MisterLiberal]

51. EXACTLY!!!

Centrism has gotten us NOWHERE!

If we have a choice between Repuke and Repuke lite, I'm outta here...

[acmejack]

4. I think you're full of it!

We can be GOP lite and lose forever. We can be populists and win period!

I am all for the Progressive Democrats breaking off from you folks anyway, you undermine the party agenda, kowtow to the corporatists and bash any one you consider too liberal.

If you think Kerry was a liberal, I want some of what you're smoking!

On edit: Thanks for getting my blood flowing this morning! You're better than a triple expresso!

[woodsprite]

5. I'm a Carper supporter. I think he did well for Delaware.

I really liked Clinton, but feel we got screwed regarding NAFTA. Hillary scares me a bit. Maybe it's just an act, but it seems like she's too good at playing center and to the right of center.

Both Carper and Biden ride in a boat down the center of the river and sometimes they stick their hand out to dabble in the water on the right or the left, but they seems to float pretty straight down the center. Others, Hillary included, seem to drive down a highway and are struggling to keep their car straddling the yellow line. The force of the people are trying to pull them to the left, but sometimes they overcorrect and end up well over the line on the right.

Don't know which is better. No matter who gets the Dem nomination, I'm voting for them. With one exception -- Lieberman! If he ran, I'd vote independant

[marmar]

16. Agree on Lieberman...

and Biden doesn't sit particularly well with me either. I'd probably vote for Biden, but Lieberman would send me screaming to the Green Party.

[MisterLiberal]

52. yuck

Lieberman is one Democrat I will never support.

That's hard for me to stomach saying, but he is not a Democrat!

[annerevere]

6. I'm with you, Fluffdaddy

We will never win with Dean or Kerry. I wouldn't tag Kerry as hard-left, but his mistake-ridden campaign was painful to watch. I'm hoping that a centrist-to-mildly left candidate will get the nomination, and that the nominee stops using the inept and inbred campaign consultants (like Kerry's bunch)and bring some talent to the campaign.

The Red states are terribly hard to win, but some Western states may not be.

I'm strong on defense, too. But Rummy is wrecking the military, and the Iraq war is a tragedy, IMHO.

Nice to know you're here.

[Mass]

11. Are you still sure Roberts is such a great guy, BTW.\nt

[annerevere]

23. Great guy?

Don't think I ever said he was a great guy. He's way too conservative for that. But no, I haven't changed my mind. I will be watching confirmation hearings closely and then we'll see. I hope you'll be watching, too.

[Fluffdaddy]

24. I'm waiting for the hearings on Roberts before I say nay or yea

I would like someone a little life of O'Connor. But we all know we are not going to get that from Bush

[Mass]

28. May be your messages would be better received if you did not find

necessary to attack other Democrats to justify them.

Why can you not support Hillary on her own merits?

I consider myself as a centrist, but I clearly do not place the center at the same place you do.

[Fluffdaddy]

33. I don't think I been attacking other Democrats. I'm discussing other DEMs

And you are right....what is a centrist, what is the center? Hummmmm

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

12. Which one do you like better?

[Bluesplayer]

17. good point.....

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. You can't blame him.

Unfortunate things tend to happen to people in his family when they get in the thick of things.

[moez]

8. I'm going to get my popcorn...

The flaming that will result from your "heresy" should be entertaining for a while....

[AuntieM1957]

9. From now on

I'll wait to see who actually wins the election.

Then I'll decide to support him/her.

Eliminates all that nasty "thinking".

:sarcasm:

[Mass]

10. I guess we can see Hillary's fans in action

Happy to see she called for unity.

[papau]

13. There are many, if not a majority, "left to center" at DU

The loudest are the "I won't be a Dem unless they do XYZ", but I believe the majority are near where I am - which is moderate/conservative of fiscal matters, and quite liberal on social issues.

The Hillary fan club is quite large, but you will get 20 or 30 who always post "never" at the mention of her name.

The fact you saw Kerry as way left/soft because of defense spending limits he wanted, just shows that there are many voices here. I did not see that. But I thought him soft on fiscal disipline!

Just where the center left is may well be a point we will have to agree to disagree on!

peace

:-)

[pansypoo53219]

14. well, i would say

i am far left, BUT, i am not bleeding heart, but fire breathing and a deficit hawk.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. If you think you're Left, then you've never met a real leftist

And you must be really young if you don't remember that Bill Clinton RAN left and governed center-right.

So by that token, I expect that if Hillary ran center-right, she'd govern hard right.

Thanks for playing.

[Fluffdaddy]

20. 92 was a long time gone,but I remember Bill ran center-right and governed

center-left.
And no I'm not young I worked for Jimmy Carter election stuffing campaign letterd.................Back before the Internet :7

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. If NAFTA and welfare reform are your idea of center-left, then

your "center" is way to the right.

[Fluffdaddy]

22. In hindsight NAFTA was a Mistake. Welfare Reform was/is just right.

welfare reform was right for the times. In my own family I knew people that stayed on welfare most of there lives. Never looked for an "above the table job" in years. Now that can't be done......Good law I say.
In hindsight NAFTA was a Mistake. I thought it would open up world markets for everyone........I was wrong

[meow2u3]

43. Welfare reform can use some retooling

Instead of imposing a five-year lifetime limit for cash benefits, we can impose a five-year limit during a ten-year period, to reflect the reality of high unemployment in industries dominated by the working poor.

As welfare reform stands now, families who exhausted their lifetime cash benefit limits are high and dry because they can't find work. Congress didn't take the reality of economic downturns into account.

[tedoll78]

54. Exactly.

I'm willing to vote for a Democrat who runs as a moderate because when a choice must be made (example: Supreme Court nominees), he/she will almost always go with the more liberal option. And that's better than having 99.9% of the choices to go in the radical right direction with a GOP president.

Call me "pragmatic." "Realistic." "Living in reality."

[Larkspur]

18. I'm a Moderate who leans Left, but I see the DLC as the fascist wing of

the Dem Party and Clinton, Biden, Lieberman, Bayh way to the right of center. Kerry is to the right on foreign policy issues but to the Left on some domestic issue, but he keeps changing his positions or at least the wording of his positions depending upon the polls. I held my nose and voted for Kerry in 2004 but refused to donate time and money to his campaign.

Howard Dean is a true Dem centrist. He leans Left on social issues and Right on fiscal issues. And he has the right balance on the use of military power -- use infrequently but use it when needed to protect Americans and to help alleviate humanitarian crises.

[Cynot]

49. You can disagree with the DLC, but..

Calling them "fascists" is going to far. I disagree with the DLC on a lot of issues myself, but when you throw around a word like "fascist" so lightly you defeat your purpose IMO.

[Larkspur]

53. Fasism = corporatism, so said Benito Mussolini

The DLC wing is the corporatist wing of the Dem Party. It's the same as fascism.

[Cynot]

60. I wouldn't necessarily accept Mussolini's definition.

I work for a corporation myself. Does that make me a fascist too even though I am a life long Democrat? So has it come to this? People on this board are calling fellow Democrats fascists. It's a shame.

[rman]

62. Mussolini's definition is not "corporatism = working for a corporation".

Corporatism is the "merger of state- and corporate power", by Mussolini's definition.

Merger of state and corporate power as in, people from the corporate establishment end up in government, only to return to the corporate world after their political career (aka revolving door politics). Imagine the kind of connections they have (aka old boys network), a corporation such as the Carlyle Group (with many former statesmen on the board of directors, and as advisors) actually cites that as one of their strengths.
Not no mention the lobby industry; corporations spending millions to influence government policy, and not without effect.

[rman]

63. duplicate post deleted

[Larkspur]

67. I work in a corporation but I do not support corporate citizenship

and I believe in regulation corporations by the Federal Government to protect American citizens, especially those of us in the working class, from corporate abuse.

The DLC, like the Repukes, favors corporate robber baronism, not corporate responsibility.

[Andromeda]

64. Welcome to DU, Cynot...

:hi:

[AntiCoup2K4]

19. Left to center? What, exactly, is the DLC to the "left" of?

Barry fucking Goldwater would have called Al From a rightwing nutcase.

[getmeouttahere]

25. This country will need another FDR...

by the time 2008 arrives, if not before, and the centrists won't cut it

if Americans don't wake up to that reality, it is at their peril

Kucinich, or someone willing to co-opt his ideas

[blondeatlast]

27. Isn't 3 years of lurking enough to figure out if you're alone at DU or not

There are some centrists here. I used to believe I was one of them, but I seem to be pretty far left for many of the centrists at DU, which seems odd.

We've got room for many ideas. You just may not find much support for hawkism here.

[chaumont58]

29. The 'centrist' DLC supports the war in Iraq

On their web site, they have a paper saying the war is worth it because 'we' have removed a brutal dictator from power and liberated millions of Iraqis.
The DLC loses me with that stance. The US invades and conquers a sovereign nation, based not on necessity, but on LIES, causing the untimely deaths of 1700 American and perhaps 25,000 Iraqis. The War in/on Iraq is not part of the solution to the war on terror, it is exacerbating the problem. The DLC can try to sugar coat it with fake ass yellow 'support the troops' stickers, but it won't fly. As Ann Richards said: you can put lipstick on a pig and call it Monique, but it is still a pig.
When I try to understand why the DLC would take this position on the military, I come up with the most craven of reasons: just an effort to get votes.
Fuck the DLC. When given the choice between a fake repuke(the DLC) and a real repuke, the voter will choose the real.
The older evil DUers can remember a memorex commercial from years back: Is it live or Memorex?
The DLC can adopt that: Is it a real repuke and a DLCer?

[sandnsea]

30. Soft on defense spending?

What are you talking about? Kerry was the first Democrat, that I recall, who proposed increasing the number of troops by 40,000. He was also supporting HUMINT back in the 90's, and a reduction in tech intelligence because he saw with the USSR that it didn't work. He voted for the defense strategy put forward by Dick Cheney. If Kerry is soft on defense, then so is Dick Cheney. The Peace Dividend, heard of it?

The Democrats will never win until people from all parts of this party learn to stop believing Republican spin.

[JHBowden]

31. I agree.

I'm sort of a moderate libertarian who believes the Democratic Party should carry the big stick. But we have to work together. Everytime someone's pet issue gets dissed by a Democrat, we hear people threatening to vote 3rd party. I feel if *I* have to compromise to be in the party, others should be willing also.

Take gay marriage, an idea I support, for instance. It will eventually happen in the United States, but the issue is hurting us in many places. Why not run candidates who are nominally against gay marriage, but will appoint judges with a philosophy of freedom? Alas, in this party it is ME ME ME all the time with no appreciation for the strategic.

[Fluffdaddy]

34. Well said. You got to pick your fights. You see what a 3rd party

got us in 2000..............Thanks a lot Nader and you people that voted for him

[Connie_Corleone]

35. There are others here.

But we usually keep quiet. I support Hillary and other Democrats who MIGHT run for president. But, I rarely post to defend her and others because it's a waste of time here.

[quinnox]

36. By DU standards I am centrist

There are is a far left here that believe in a lot of stuff I don't such as PETA and gay marriage, disliking the military, not accepting there really are terrorists, cheering on the Iraq "resistance", blaming every natural disaster or terrorist attack on Bush, etc.

But by mainstream standards I am a liberal, I am for strong environment, and social liberal policies like - hell, I'll say it - big government to help the population with welfare programs, I am against the death penalty and for strict gun control and I would also like to see a universal heath care plan for all Americans.

Also, I think it is silly to label DLC as the boogey man like so many do, I really don't even think about the DLC, just indifferent.

And I would love to see Hillary Clinton run for president and I believe she would have a very good shot to win and that would be great.

[fujiyama]

37. Kerry "too soft on defense"?

This is about the dumbest thing I've read. Dean is far left because he opposed an unjustified war?

And Carper sold out working people when he enthusiastically supported that worthless bankruptcy bill.

If you're part of the Joe Lieberman hawk crowd, count me out. The man had the great forsight of supporting this war meanwhile ignoring Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And how much more should the US spend on defense? We spend more than the next several nations COMBINED!

[jonnyblitz]

42. that one had me cackling also...

:wtf:

[CWebster]

38. You know, instead of rejecting Democratic stands on the issues

and embracing, if not triangulating on Republican policies, maybe we could appeal and resonate on so many levels with the voters. Polls indicate that the majority tilts toward the Left on the major issues, but the DlC rejects that winning strategy because they would lose corporate sponsors and lose power. Going corporate will never benefit the Democratic party, because the Republicans offer a much more clearly defined pro-Corporate agenda. We are the ultimate losers of the corporate sellout.

[safi0]

39. I used to think

I was extremely Liberal. Then I came to DU and I realized I'm much more moderate than I thought

[CWebster]

40. Political junkies frequent this site

they watch politics constantly and the more aware you are, the more informed you are. The Breaking News forum is always on the cutting edge and everything is debated and aired and rehashed and weighed and reviewed and analyzed and brainstormed. Stick around.

[TriMetFan]

41. Who in the hell cares if one is a liberal, progressive or centrist

Democratic!

If we don't but behind our own divisions, we as a party will never have power in this nation again.

I'm just a American Democratic nothing more, nothing less.

[blm]

44. Kerry doesn't believe in WASTING Defense . He's not "soft" on defense.

That's RIGHT WING SPIN.

You think lining the pockets of defense industry executives makes you tough on defense?

You think bypassing all diplomatic measures makes you tough on defense?

I r=think you don't KNOW enough about Kerry's actual defense priorities to criticize or label them.

[SaveElmer]

45. Yeah I am there with you...

You are gonna get flamed mercilessly though!!!

No room for moderate-left Democrats on this board anymore!!!

[ibegurpard]

46. The entire premise of your post is based upon misinformation

I would assume that it comes from unchallenged media perceptions and Republican talking points.

[kerrygoddess]

47. Buying the Clinton Meme

Kerry soft on defense? Wow, you bought that one hook, line and sinker!

Most left leaning Dems consider Kerry to be too much of a hawk. Have some more Clinton KoolAid and get back to us after 2008. Hillary is not the answer.

[union_maid]

48. We've been playing that game since Reagan. It's been a net loss

The DLC is impressed with itself because of Clinton. Bill, that is. He was a special case. He was maybe the most talented politician most of us will ever see in our lives. Still is. The DLC did not make him successful. He made the DLC successful. Except for one thing. Clinton talked a lot about the middle class. He even did a few things for the middle class. That, together with the prosperous times he presided over did indeed lift all boats. And it was overdue. The left lost a lot of ground concentrating on helping people in poverty and ignoring the increasingly high bar to entering and remaining in the middle class. That focus opened the door for the Reagan revolution. But free trade has backfired on the middle class, the boats are sinking and I don't see the DLC throwing anyone a life preserver. They give us rhetoric about how seeing our jobs go overseas will work out eventually. They tell us that we need more training, when the jobs for which we're perfectly well trained are outsourced overseas. We know it's bull. Everyone does.

I sent an e-mail to Hillary about outsourcing. It was respectful and I think it was realistic as well. I sent it from her website as instructed. I never even got an automated reply. I don't think the DLC is listening to us and I don't think that they have a message that's going to resonate with people. The object should be to convince people that their economic well being lies with the Democrats. That's going to require a strong and specific populist message. The DLC is not delivering that as of this point in time.

[Walt Starr]

55. If given a choice between any Republican and a Dem who wants to be a Repub

I would go third party or figure what the hell and vorte for the real deal over the fake Republican.

:shrug:

[sakabatou]

56. I'm one

[TheDonkey]

57. I'm left to centrist Democrat, and Kerry was not the left wing Democrat

He was pretty liberal on social issues, more conservative with business. Much like me.

I diagaree that liberal Democrats can't win. I think they have a strong chance along with centrist Dems. The most important thing is the charisma of the canidate, and many other issues.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. I am a traditional Democrat. You folks are the Republican wing of the

Democratic party.

[Writer]

59. I'm also one, but I want to emphasize how important the liberals are.

Because we all comprise one party. We can't win without everyone being on board.

[rman]

61. Increasing military spending = PNAC/necocon agenda

But i guess you would not know that unless you have read "Rebuilding America's Defenses" http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

And you say anyone opposing neocon policies is "hard left"?

[Fluffdaddy]

65. Military spending is what keep your right to freely post here a right and

Not a death sentence. "Rebuilding America's Defenses" Yes I say Always YES. Building and having a strong military is not neocon policies...............It's smart Policy

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. That's exactly right. It is what has kept

the Koreans, Dominicans, Vietnamese, Nicaraguans, Iranians, Iraqis, etc from enslaving us.

[eridani]

69. Hardly. Our military has been fighting against freedom

--since the end of WW II. It has been fighting for corporate dominance on behalf of people who don't actually care where they live. Our military spending is in the process of destroying our society from within.

[Skwmom]

66. Pandering politicians who put their own desires for political

power ahead of doing what is best for this country will NOT bring the Democrats back into power. Most people dislike and distrust politicians so how in the heck do the geniuses of the DLC plan to win by making it soooo easy for the Republicans to portray the Democratic Party as a party of pandering politicians who have no core beliefs or values and will say anything to get elected? The DLC seems to be the stupid wing of the Democratic Party.