Hillary Clinton wins the nomination...opponent is John McCain..you will?

[SaveElmer]

Poll question: Hillary Clinton wins the nomination...opponent is John McCain..you will?

[Goldmund]

1. They keep a skunk inside the voting booth in my precinct.

I have never voted without holding my nose. I think the skunk will still be there in 2008.

[tk2kewl]

2. move to europe

[Tux]

3. DLC can bite me

Green, bitches.

[henslee]

4. There will never be a female prez before theres a female VP....

There was never a black assistant coach in NFL, NBA before there were black coaches... Bob Dylan said it... YA GOTTA SERVE SOMEBODY.

[napi21]

5. SHAME on those who chose "NO VOTE"

I firmly believe, if you don't vote, you have NO RIGHT to complain, compliment, or even have an opinion about the person who gets in office.

[GreenArrow]

15. sure you do

and if the choice is between Mcain and Hilary, then really, what is the point anyway. My opinion of both of them is that they are corporate, self serving, dishonest hacks. Might as well ask whether I'd rather have brain cancer or ebola.

[napi21]

23. But ONE of the major political party candidates is GOING to win!

If you feel you have to pick the better of two bad candidates, then do that! If you really feel that it doesn't matter which one wins, take a closer look at what Shrub has done in his 4 1/2 years!

I wasn't thrilled with Gore or Kerry, but I still believe they would have been a lot better for EVERYBIDY in the Country than Shrub.

Don't look at this as, who cares, it's only ONE vote! If we can convince a lot of people who have the same feelilng you do, to cast their ONE vote, it's the difference between winning and loosing!

[Walt Starr]

32. Problem is, I don't think anybody could convince me one or the other

was the lesser of the two evils.

:shrug:

[GreenArrow]

49. it's a question of direction, I suppose

Different conductors, same train, same track. With Bush and co. at the controls, the train is going full bore, the brakes are gone, the downhill grade is steep, and growing steeper, and the tracks end at the bottom. Assuming Kerry had won, he would have taken the train to the same place, at a slower rate, and with occasional time for siteseeing, but headed in the same direction nevertheless. At least with Kerry, there was a rather faint promise of the brakes being applied, and the train changing direction, but even that was based on wishful thinking more than on anything Kerry and Edwards offered up.

I did vote for Kerry, with zero enthusiasm, more because I wanted to see Bush and his gang publicly repudiated, than because I thought he was going to take us to a radically different place, but could easily understand why someone wouldn't want to vote for either one of them.

A guy I used to work with from Egypt told me that in his country, the more educated one was, the less likely they were to vote, since they realized the sham nature of the elections there. I fear it's gotten to that point, here as well, a power and money game, obscure by bright lights and loud music. After Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, CLinton, and now Bush II, I'm just a little cynical. Those are the best and brightest the country can come up with?

[TroglodyteScholar]

24. Brain cancer, hands down...

Do you KNOW what ebola does to you?

;)

[GreenArrow]

50. at least with brain cancer you have a chance

;-)

[bvar22]

51. but Ebola is so much quicker.

*

[MODemocrat]

56. Who would you like to see get the nomination?

Seriously, I can't think of anyone in either party that I'd be excited about anymore. At the same time, I would vote for whomever gets the nomination, because this country can't stand anymore Bush appointments.
Jeb Bush could easily become president, if the president is selected by the courts again.

[napi21]

57. I'm not excited about anyone yet either, but I'm leaning toward

Mark Warner. I haven't seen a lot of him yet, but so far, I liked what I saw.

I can tell you who I don't want!

John Kerry
Al Gore
John Edwards

I don't think there's any chance with them, and I say, "save your money"!

I'd also prefer our candidate NOT be out of the Senate. I was a Jack Kennedy supporter, even though I was a few months too young to be able to vote for him! But he was the LAST person to be directly elected out of the Senate! That tells me something!

[MODemocrat]

68. I'll have to do some research on Mark Warner

I heartily agree with you on the list of those you don't want. John Edwards looked pretty good the first time, but as you pointed out, a Senator rarely wins. Al Gore as much as said he is being weaned from politics, so he made that decision for us. John Kerry is a man I respect because of his war record, and Senate record as well, and truly believe he is one of the most decent men of our time, but, he is not a fighter, and the Democrats no longer have the luxury of lying down and rolling over to please the republicans.
napi21, I'm an elderly (no let's face it, I'm an old woman), and I did get to vote for John F. Kennedy. I became interested in politics when Harry S Truman from Missouri ran for president, but wasn't quite old enough to vote. My Mom got my enthusiasm aroused, as she was very active in politics, and a liberal from the word go.
I'd love to be enthuised and involved again. So far our lineup is:
:boring: :boring:

[napi21]

70. Glad to meet you MO. I remember Truman, and I've never forgetten

his "the buck stops here" statement! Sure wish that still existed today, huh?

I wonder if we don't have GREAT candidates because politics has become so dirty? During EVERY election campaign, I ask myself, Whay would ANYBODY want to put themselves through this crap?

I think HArry did it because he believed he could make things better, I think Jack did too, but something has happened. None of the candidates, on either side, are in this game to make things better! They're in it to please their ego! They think they're great, and if they get elected, that convinces them that everybody else thinks that too!

I dunno, maybe I'm just old and crabby too, but I'd love to find a hard ass candidate who really had the good of the country at heart! I thought we had that in Dean, and I still think that. He's doing a good job as chairman of the DNC and I hope his efforts make us both happy.

[GreenArrow]

69. that's a tough question

All of the usual suspects -- Hilary, Gore, Kerry, Edwards, Warner, Bayh, Dean, etc.-- are no go's for me. The possiblities on the other side are even worse. McCain is the worst sort of self-promoter, and Jeb is really human scum. Frist is a joke.

I liked Kucinich last election, but held no hopes that he would or could actually be elected.

The problem is the system itself, and the sort of candidates we see are a product of that system. I don't know what the solution is, but I know what it is not, and that is the system we are currently using. As Einstein put it, "we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." Frankly, there is a distinct lack of vision in the political sphere, and frankly, the people seem not much to notice or care, unless something impacts them directly and tangibly. Both political and public spheres are pretty pathological at this point in time. I'm not very hopeful that things will be much different three years from now, but we'll see how things shake out.

[Walt Starr]

30. I chose "Not Vote" because it's the closest to "Undecided"

There was no "undecided", so I took "not vote" to be the same thing.

:shrug:

Otherwise, I couldn't have voted.

[pseudostar]

39. nope Im staying home

Fuck my 6th grade sense of civic duty. If my choice is between a turd sandwhich and a giant douche, Im not going to waste 20 minutes of my life. I spent many hours of my life working to get that uncharismatic asshat Kerry elected, and I refuse to waste any more time on a candidate that Im not even really with.

Fool me once...shame on....shame on you....you fooled me fooled man cant get fooled again.

[Kraklen]

42. Shame on Hillary Clinton.

For ignoring the constitution.

[SaveElmer]

44. What part of the constitution has she ignored?..nt

[Kraklen]

47. The first amendment.

One of the more important parts, IMO.

[SaveElmer]

48. Could you be a bit more specific!

I take it you are taking about the video game controversy, but I don't want to put words in your mouth!

[lojasmo]

79. She voted for the patriot act too. amendment IV

And she's a DLC member too.

Upon further reflection she has made statements contrary to, and has voted contrary to amendments:

II
III
IV

I bet you can figure them out.

[tridim]

6. McCain will not be the nominee

The Republican overlords will never let that happen.

I don't think Hillary will be our nominee either, only because she's not the best choice.

Given your poll question, of course I'd vote for Hillary.

[wakeme2008]

7. I will not vote for ANY DLC candidate period

They cost us in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

[LynneSin]

8. Ok, not this "John McCain" for VP on a dem ticket

:grr:

I kept hearing this same crap when Kerry was picking his VP candidate. McCain is a NEO-conservative who just happens to have latch on to maybe 2 good things (Campaign Finance and Patient Bill of Rights). Other than that, he's supported Bush's tax cuts, the war, all of Bush's horrible nominations and pretty much toed the line when it comes to neo-conservative republican values.

This is about as funny as a rusty nail shoved in the heel of my foot

[gmoney]

11. Was it ever verified...?

Did Kerry actually offer McCain the VP spot, or was it all just speculation?

I couldn't see Kerry actually doing it, but he stepped on his dick so many other ways, I guess I wouldn't be too shocked if he actually had offered it to McCain.

WHOEVER becomes the candidate better spend all the damn money, or at least not keep asking me for more. And more. And more.

[LynneSin]

16. No, but a bunch of "We hate everything DLC" folks were drooling over...

...the concept of us on our ticket. To be honest - it disgusted me. I get slammed for supporting Joe Biden and yet the same people would turn around and drool over John McCain and how great he is. He's a fricking neo-con and btw, Joe Biden ISN'T DLC

[ollie79]

17. Amen Brother

McCain is a right winger, war complex nut! We need to wash our hands off that ilk.

[radio4progressives]

63. McCain, Clinton, Biden, Lieberman, are all one and the same.

Am I the only one here, who finds it just a tad curious that this recent surge in (what i consider a distraction campaign) focusing on which Neo Lib/Neo Con (essentially the same thing)will be selected in the '08 elections, at the very moment we need to be focusing on building the level of raging momentum needed to bring articles of impeachment against President Bush, VP Cheney, and others in the WH, ultimately leading to the indictments and prosecutions of these thieves, thugs, & baby killers currently occupying the white house now, for Acts of Treason, High Crimes and misdeamors?

In fact this entire faction distraction is orchestrated by the DLC as evidenced in the blogs in recent days, and so called progressive talk radio personalities (read moderate conservative who plays a "liberal" talk show host on the radio) Ed Schultz .

Anyone else care to speculate why the DLC is orchestrating this very divisive smear campaign against progressives and at this particular point in time, when they should be helping to oust these fascists pigs?

I'd be interested in what your theories are about this. I have a few of my own but want to see how many here on the same page.

[Eloriel]

9. I will .... hide this thread

Sick and more than of these posts about something years away. Blech.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. And the fundamental difference between

these two candidates would be...? :shrug:

[GreenArrow]

18. one's a snake

and the other is a lizard. I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which.

[eleny]

12. Write in another Dem if she votes "yes" on John Roberts for SCOTUS

If she votes "no" on him, I would then vote for her.

[Ishoutandscream2]

28. Amen. Exactly.

My main hope is for General Clark to be the nominee. I still think that's going to happen.

[Walt Starr]

13. Undecided

I'm undecided if it's Hillary or McCain. I'd have to see who third party candidates are and how raucous my local elections are to even decide if it would be worth it to show up. Might have to go with McCain if local elections are tight enough and no third party candidate showed me any mettle.

[union_maid]

14. I'll vote for the Democrat

I'll vote for the Democratic candidate no matter what, and not out any sort of party loyalty. I'll vote for the Democrat because no matter who it is, short of Zell Miller, it'll be the closest we got to opposition to the regime that's taken over our country. I will not vote for her happily. I do agree that we need a candidate who has broader appeal than some Democratic choices. That's just one reason why I'd be happiest if I was getting a chance to vote for Wes Clark. I could be happy voting for John Edwards. Or Howard Dean, although he's busy being chairman. Feingold would be fine with me. There are a lot of great choices. Hillary would not be on my shortlist of them. Nor would anyone who continues to defend outsourcing of American jobs without offering specific solutions to the economic upheaval that's causing. Hillary's baggage problem is another reason. I think that anyone who believes it's she's got something so special that it's worth it to try to overcome that is in a lot of denial.

If she does get the nomination, I'd be very happy to be wrong in any negative assessment I've made of her, but I can't see voting for her in the primary. And if she doesn't start sounding more like a Democratic senator and less like a Republican candidate for president I'll be hoping for a strong Democratic challenge for her seat in the 2006 primaries.

[billbuckhead]

20. Life in America was better under Clinton

especially for the poor and lower middleclasses.

[union_maid]

31. Yes it was

Do you think the DLC can make that happen again? Do you hear anything in their rhetoric that seriously addresses the problems we're facing now? I don't. I did hear Bill Clinton speak of the problems of the middle class. A lot. However, I also once heard him say that the new reality would be multiple careers. I never heard him explain how that would fit into the financial reality of ordinary lives. I never heard him tell us how we'd keep our families afloat while retraining for the next career, nor how we were supposed to save for retirement when we kept having to go back to square one. Or who was going to hire us at age fifty or sixty. Now that reality is here. I'm still not hearing anything terribly helpful or encouraging out anyone named Clinton when it comes to how to integrate it into raising a family, facing retirement , illness or any of the other problems we face in life. It wasn't really hitting us in the face during Clinton's presidency. Now it is. I heard Bill Clinton say that NAFTA has created more jobs than it cost. He said that during the 2004 campaign season. He didn't say what kind of jobs, what they paid, or how the whole thing really impacted real people.

[Cascadian]

81. It was and it wasn't.

I will be honest. I will take 1 Bill Clinton over a dozen George W. Bush's anyday. But let's call a spade a spade. Bill Clinton was never a liberal and at best he was a Centrist Republican. I did not like what he did with gays in the military, his support for free trade, the three strikes and your out law, and the bombing of Serbia. On the up side, he did balance the budget, people were working, and standards of living were up. I do miss the 90's. I miss being comfortably numb to paraphrase Mike Malloy.


John

[lancdem]

25. She's taken on a big responsibility by trying to come up

with a DLC/Dem agenda for '06 and beyond. If she can pull it off, she'll be a hero. If she can't, forget it. However, I think there's a real chance she isn't running; I'm not sure you take on this kind of job if you plan to run for prez in a couple years. Wouldn't it be easier to let someone else do it, and you concentrate on your campaign?

[billbuckhead]

36. The Clintons are bigger than a declining Dem party

She is forced to rebuild the party before she can run.

[longship]

19. Hillary won't win.

She's DLC. She's wants to get along with Repugs. Her position on Iraq is all wrong.

Of all the possible candidates, she's the only one who would likely lose to just about any Repug opponent. McCain would win in a walk.

[DU9598]

21. I will vote Hillary

I will probably vote for her during the caucuses too. I think she is our strongest candidate and can help us secure the Supreme Court. No chance that I will allow a repeat of 2000 and dilute the vote on a wasted 3rd party vote. Those who said no difference between Bush and Gore were just plain wrong and need to fess up to that.

[longship]

26. I'll vote for her if she gets the nomination.

But she won't win.

The DLC has yet to learn that there is no getting along with lunatics. Every single Repug, without exception, is either a complete lunatic, or is so controlled by the lunatics that it doesn't matter. They vote as a block. They spin as a block. They have a unified message. Appeasement does not work with these people. And understand this clearly, the DLC is *all* *about* appeasing the Repugs.

[w13rd0]

22. Publicity seeking moral hypocrite warhawk...

...versus publicity seeking moral hypocrite warhawk who is a woman...

WOW what a choice...

Hold my nose and vote for Hillary, and then immediately start working to unseat her in 2012.

[noonwitch]

27. Any vote I cast for Hillary is "happily cast"

I'll cast my primary vote for her, too.

[Guaranteed]

33. Mind if I ask why on earth....? nt

[Roxy66]

29. I would vote for Hillary

[lojasmo]

34. I will never again vote for a DLC member

Who I know in my heart cannot win.

I did it for Kerry, he was a sore dissapointment to me. Never again.

[SaveElmer]

35. Unless I am mistaken Kerry was never in DLC

Kerry is one of the most liberal nominees we have ever had....

[lojasmo]

40. You're mistaken....currently a member.

www.dlc.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1

Halfway down.

[SaveElmer]

41. Cool...I stand corrected...thanks!!!

[sweetheart]

37. I'll vote for whomever ends the drugs war.

I don't care anymore... if both parties are offering insane
self-destructive policies, then i'll vote for whomever is closest
to sane.. .likely hillary... but not guaranteed. Whomever
sees that the drugs war is a total waste, and has the honestly
to say so, i'll vote for.

[Hippo_Tron]

82. Kerry actually had a pretty good position on marijuana

He basically wanted to make it so that non-violent marijuana users were placed on the lowest level of prosecution, basically "don't bother". That's not nearly an end to the drug war, but it's a step in the right direction.

[sweetheart]

87. And i voted for John Kerry, and am happy to have supported him

Realpolitik suggests that the drugs war cannot be undone pre-announced,
but rather once in office. Clinton was a fucking asshole in this regard
and stepped up the war on his watch, destroying and degenerating the
lives of millions of people... and i'm less trusting of hillary, as she
might be similar... and in that regard, why vote for someone who
is running on a platform to throw myself and people i love in prison.

[DeaconBlues]

38. I'd hold my nose and vote for Hillary

not because of any of the bullshit right-wing talking points about her or because I think McCain is a great guy (I think he is a royal piece of crap), but because I think she is too conservative, too much of a politician, and I don't believe in nepotism (I don't want to see a Bush or a Clinton dynasty. This ain't no monarchy).

But its no big deal, I've been holding my nose to vote for the Democratic candidate for the last 18 years. I just think of how much more of a bastard his or her opponent is.

[ollie79]

43. Exactly

We need to move away from this dynasty crap. Both parties are guilty of it, and the media for perpetuating it.

[Swamp Rat]

45. Brasil

:D

[election_2004]

46. I will vote for an Independent candidate....

...unless the "Rah-Rah Hillary" crowd pisses me off to the point where I would vote for McCain only if he denounces the Far Right.

Otherwise, I will be looking at the Libertarian and Green nominees, or other Independent candidates.

And don't start whining at me when President-elect Hillary Clinton ends up dragging down Democrats all over the country in downticket races (including heavy Democratic U.S. Senate losses).

[terrya]

52. Canada, oh, Canada.

[LittleClarkie]

53. Other --- write in John Kerry

:D

As someone on Kos said, where's the "gun in mouth" option?

[genius]

54. If Hillary votes for Roberts, she's a neo-con Republican.

She's already shown her colors. That will just remove all doubt.

[SaveElmer]

58. Question...

It isn't inconceivable that many Democrats will vote for him...after all Clarence Thomas got through a Democratic Senate, with, I believe, Dick Durbin casting the deciding vote.

Are you going to characterize all of them this way? And...

Would you call Republicans who voted for Ruth Bader Ginsburg liberal?

[MODemocrat]

55. I wouldn't vote for McCain regardless of who he's opposing

He's too much in love with George W. Bush; either that, or he's brown-
nosing to pull in some of Bush's base. Whatever the reason, I'm turned off by him completely, anyway, I never have and never will vote republican. No Siree. Not even if my own Sons were running under the Republican ticket. :dem:

[IndianaGreen]

59. McCain was replaced by an alien reptilian look-alike

I don't know who this guy is that looks and talks like McCain, but he certainly is not the same McCain we knew back in 2000.

Hillary vs any Republican? I'll take Hillary!

[MrSlayer]

60. I'll go third party.

Because between those two, what's the fucking difference? Pro-corporate = Anti-American.

[Gay Green]

85. So would I

Why rack my brain trying to figure out WHICH is the lesser of two neo-Con Repugnican Evils to vote for? :shrug:

[AntiCoup2K4]

61. I'd vote for the pre-2000 McCain over the post-2000 Hillary anytime.

I'd also vote for the 1993 Hillary over the pre-2000 McCain.

But it appears neither of them exist anymore. No way in Hell I'd waste a vote on either today.

[Hippo_Tron]

80. McCain's actually become more socially liberal since 2000

The difference is that he's started kissing Bush's ass and that is a cause of serious concern for me.

[sundancekid]

62. Green or Third Party -- DLC dems get NO MORE PASSES from me

centrist their sorry a$$ ... what part of "enough is enough" on losing elections their way do they not understand?????

[AtomicKitten]

64. Psssst. McCain is a Republican.

I will never understand how some people can really think "this Republican is different." They said that about Schwarzzeneger here in California and, guess what?, now they hate him. I warned them that he would put redistricting out there and he did.

And, come on. I can't believe we'd entertain a third party at a time like this. Do what you like, but don't mind me when I roll my eyes.

[OKDem08]

67. the ambiguity expressed here

I believe, forecasts Hillary's fate.
I would prob hold my nose and vote for her w/a sick feeling that we had lost another one.

[AtomicKitten]

73. And Diebold

will see to it that we do lose unless something is done NOW.

[election_2004]

74. That's why....

We need to have an open and honest dialogue about the 2008 nomination process NOW...while we still can.

Instead, we're told, "Quit thinking about 2008 and focus on 2006"...

Yeah, and I wonder how many of the people spouting that mantra are simply saying that to distract attention away from the liabilities of whoever they might be supporting...

[AtomicKitten]

76. are you hearing voices?

I don't see anybody telling anybody to stop thinking about 2008 and concentrate on 2006. This isn't the Republican Party. You can think and talk about whatever you want.

[DemGirl7]

65. I'm not sure what I would do....

I want to vote Democratic, but I'm very pissed at Hillary...actually I hate her, I hate McCain, but I also dislike third parties, because they have no chance of winning. The only other thing to do is not to vote, but I really hate that, and I'm the one in my family that urges everyone to not forget to vote, and I don't want to be a hypocrite, when it comes to voting.:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[union_maid]

66. You won't be a hypocrite in voting Democrat

It's still better, almost no matter what. Just close your eyes and think of the federal judiciary. That's in the general, though. In the primaries, give 'em hell if you want to.

[Gyre]

71. Between those two a-holes?

I won't vote. I'll never vote for a DLC candidate again.

Gyre

[name not needed]

72. I'd vote Green

I can't stand either of them.

[Maru Kitteh]

75. Happily vote for Hillary - because it gets BILL back in the house

I'm not the worlds biggest Hillary fan but she's miles ahead of John freakin' McCain.

It would be kind of cool to elect

1. Our first female president
2. Our first presidential spouse

[Cascadian]

77. I say NO to the DLC, NO to the Iraq War, and NO to a Hillary vote!

I will vote either Green or Socialist.

John

[MellowOne]

78. Why so many threads about Hillary?

Everyday there's one...it's three years from now and hopefully we will have better choices by then. I'd vote Green if she runs.

[Hippo_Tron]

83. Undecided, but I can't fucking stand Hillary

This video game nonsense just reminded me of that fact.

[JHBowden]

84. ONE IMAGE

Case closed; I'd vote for Hillary.

[PurityOfEssence]

86. One has to be a moron or a Nazi to like McCain

Defend yourselves, dammit!

He's an anti-choice, pro-business, pro-torture, pro-conquest stooge for the megarich. It's breathtaking that anyone who doesn't thirst to fuck the weak and subjugate them forever would even think of voting for this running-dog for the aristocracy.

You like the smile? You like the dulcet tones? You either crave a return to feudalism or you're just one of the biggest suckers who ever came down the pike wearing a plaid suit.

He's also an evasive and spineless opportunists who carefully crafts an image as a forthright uber-male.

EXPLAIN YOURSELVES, VOTERS!