In the DLC/no DLC argument, belief has transcended fact.

[Writer]

At this point, there really is no use arguing about an issue where the person on the other side simply casts aside everything you say, because that person hysterically BELIEVES him or herself to be correct based on his or her own cherry-picked information.

Belief has transcended facts in this matter. Let's drop this stupid argument and start building bridges.

[DaveinMD]

1. agreed

I choose to beat up Republicans. I also wish labor wasn't fighting with each other.

[Writer]

2. It feels oddly similar, doesn't it?

"We're out of power, and it's YOUR FAULT!"

"No it's YOUR FAULT!"

"No it's your fault because I found this article on http://obscuresite.com/minutia/ that says so!"

[lvx35]

7. labor is UNIFIED.

organizations are changing forms, and believe me, sometimes change is good!

[DaveinMD]

22. unions are leaving the AFL-CIO

that is not unity. I probably agree with the SEIU on the matter, but there surely isn't unity.

[snowbear]

3. You're right... it's getting OUT of CONTROL ...

All I can say is.. ReTHUGS must absolutely love lurking in here..

Seriously -- scroll down the front page only. Is anyone bitching about Republicans?

The majority of posts are one wing of the Democratic party verses the other wing.

I think most of the messages are sincere.

But I also think the freaking lurkers LOVE this and are contributing HUGELY to the great divide.

Save some of your energy to fight the real enemy! :cry:

[Writer]

4. And it's a major reason why this thread is being ignored.

Because dropping the issues means casting aside emotion for reason. That rarely happens.

[CWebster]

20. Typical Right-wing talking points

Reason over emotion.

Which, of course, is a claim in lieu of any good defense.

[Armstead]

29. Exactly

I'm using my resaon and you're just being emotional. Therefore I'm right and you are wrong. Nyah, nyah.

[lvx35]

9. We will prevail!

We ARE one. Sometimes part of a winning strategy is recognizing the need for change and running with it, but make no mistake that we are UNIFIED, more than we have ever been, against these "republicans".

[CWebster]

19. BECAUSE

Under DLC leadership, the Bush administration has run roughshod over everything that matters and under DLC leadership, the opposition party has been unable to articulate a clear and focused condemnation. In fact, it is usually an enabling or triangulating effort and the greatest energy and passion is directed at condemnation of progressives who are unapologetically anti-Bush.

Who the hell needs Republicans?

[Lecky]

5. Yep, we get it already ...

Most DU'ers hate the DLC
hate Liebermann
hate Fienstien
hate Hillary
hate Biden
hate Kerry

I'm sure I'm forgetting many more...

Oh and Zell Miller (understandable)

I agree with the OP, I wish there was more constructive talk instead of melodrama and hysteria. I mean, if you post here...you must have some hope for our party right? (I hope)

[LittleClarkie]

6. The DLC, Skull and Bones, and the Bildeberger people

are coming to get us in our sleep! Hide your progressive daughters!!

Yawp.

Few facts, but lots of boogie men. I thought trying to stitch together a reality from emotion and half-truths was something the freepers did, not us.

Actually, Kerry got a 75% favorable rating last time somebody asked.

I was sickened when I realised there are those who will make fun of Leiberman's beard even after being told it's for mourning his mom.

Are we losing our humanity?

And, like those who are brave enough to say they support DLC, anyone brave enough to state that they support any of the above people have been called operatives and worse.

God forbid someone should break out of progressive lockstep.

[Guaranteed]

8. Kerry isn't really part of them. But the rest are undermining our party.

They have for years. It's true, whether you want to recognize it or not.

[Lecky]

11. Well those DLC'ers keep winning elections in their respective states

so they must be doing something right. I also think they have been showing spine as of late...

Now when it comes to running for POTUS that's totally different and it's not going to happen till 08', who knows where we will be by then.

[KoKo]

12. What one needs to look at is Why those DLC'ers keep winning year after

year. Check out their votes. Are they voting with the Repugs? How does their vote mesh with Dem Values of Health Care for those who Need it, belief that Social Security is important for those who have no other means to support themselves or enough savings to live reasonably after a certain age when they retire. In today's world "retire" could mean forcibly at an early age if one can't find a job because of outsourcing.

The right of children to a decent education through public schools that are well funded and stable. The right to reproductive rights and basic health care for all regardless of income. The Regulation of Corporations and Financial Markets which are overseen for the good of the customers and consumers and not the CEO's and Boards of Directors. Supervision and monitoring of health standards for our Air, water, food and pharmaceutical products.

That's the basics. There are other Democratic Party ideals that have been lost along the way, but the few I mentioned are ones that Repugs have no interest in or there interest is in how to commercialize and privatize every aspect of our existence, including our PRIVACY.

When one looks at the voting records of DLC'ers one might have an idea of how they stand and find better candidates who are beholden to the voters rather than K-Street. :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

14. They don't. The premise is totally, completely wrong. nt

[Lecky]

15. OK...but

If the DLC'ers are the ones getting votes I don't think we need to focus on them since they are winning elections.

We should be focusing on Democrats who are losing elections and figuring out why, we should be trying to defeat the Republicans and not our own party. Doesn't that make sense?

BTW, I know most of you don't see this...but a DLC'er is not the same as a Republican. They may not follow your point of view on certain issues...not to mention, all liberals vary in their stances.

In any party you are going to have your differences. I almost wish there was no DLC just because it's a label that causes irrational knee-jerk reactions, even when a DLC'er votes how we would like...it's never good enough apparently.

[CWebster]

21. It isn't like their is a whole hell of a lot of choice

Progressives can barely squeak in--look what they did to meoderate Dean who bucked up against them - and then yhe choice is between the fascist Right and the moderate Right.

[Guaranteed]

13. Uhh..no, they don't. They keep losing.

Who did we lose in the Senate the last time around? Look at 'em. ALL DLC.

[whitehousemoron]

27. response to BullGooseLoony

No it's not true. The south and intermountain west are proof that the Democrats can't win elections with liberal ideas.

[Pirate Smile]

10. There are a lot of posters who aren't Democrats and seem to hate

Democrats as much as Republicans.

[rman]

16. Quite transparent

You are one who started the argument, now that it's clear DLC supporters can't win it, you want to drop it.

[CWebster]

17. this kind of "bridgebuilding"

is always the demand to the base from the DLC to fall in line.

[Eloriel]

23. Yeah, kinda the way i see it

I also don't believe that the OP's basic premise is accurate, which always bothers me.

There's an assigned, assumed, declared "equivalence" granted to the two sides which I don't buy, for one thing. That's another thing too many on the right do, along with the media: imagine that as long as two sides are given, it's all good, all even. Well, no. Sometimes and in fact OFTEN, there is only ONE "true" side, only one side of the story that's not a bunch of lies. So it always bothers me when people assign that false equivalency. Some people also do it when they say something like, "and the truth probably lays somewhere in the middle." Uh, no. Maybe that's sometimes true, but it's a VERY dangerous assumption to automatically make about anything, IMO.


Edit: In fact, the poster I'm responding to is 100% correct here. Thanks to this link, posted upthread somewhere, we find tha writer very much IS a DLC supporter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1959694

whodathunkit from that oh-so-even-sounding OP?? Live and learn, huh?

[justinsb]

28. Build all the bridges you want, I won't vote for a DLCer n/t

[rman]

18. "beliefs" such as: Pro-DLC: 9% - Anti-DLC: 78%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1959694&mesg_id=1959694

[depakid]

24. Not interested in building bridges with the DLC

because the DLC is only interested in building bridges with Republicans- and those in the party who share thier views destroy the party's unity- and ANY chance of thwarting the far right agenda by continually crossing party lines and voting with the Republicans on issue after issue. Or going on TV talk shows and backstabbing progressives (like Dean) who dare to speak the truth.

So long as those types of Dems are out in front of the party, the party WILL continue to lose- just as they've been doing for over 10 years....

Wanna keep losing? Embrace the DLC. It's a tried and true path to irrelevance..

[Connie_Corleone]

25. Well, so much for that idea. n/t

[whitehousemoron]

26. DLC'ers didn't start the argument

The liberals are so afraid of losing power, that they just don't want to accept other points of view in their own party. It's the same with the Republicans as well. During the 2000 campaign, when John Mc.Cain won New Hampshire, a concerted effort to smear him was started by the radical right in South Carolina. When all was said and done, Mc.Cain was toast. The radical left elected John Kerry in 2004, and lost. Bill Clinton was a DLC man, and won 2 straight elections. E'nuff said!!

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. "The radical left elected John Kerry in 2004" - HORSESHIT!

The "radical left" had to hold their noses to even VOTE for John Kerry and his unending string of pro PNAC votes from 2000-2004. He wasn't our candidate, he was the DLC's, from day one.

"Liberals are so afraid of losing power."

Really now..... And where is this power that we are at risk of losing?

Is Harry Reid a Liberal? I think not.

Nancy Pelosi? PLEASE. Her kid flies around on Chimp Force One.

Steny Whore? Yeah, there's a card carrying Liberal :eyes:

All of the DESPERATION from the Al From Flunkies in these 50 or so DLC threads in the last 2 days proves exactly who is afraid of losing power.

And you will. For the survival of the Democratic party and democracy itself.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Really!

The "radical left" within the Democratic party was divided between Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, and we were all against the Iraq War, but once Kerry was nominated, we all went out and worked for him, including even a lot of Greens, because we all agreed that it was important to get rid of Bush.

But it wasn't because he was "radical left," and if you think Kerry is "radical left," then your political education is sorely lacking.

And being eager to get rid of Bush was not enough. I cannot emphasize this too strongly.

The well-informed people who hated Bush were easy to rouse out of their houses, which made GOTV activities almost redundant. When I canvassed for Kucinich in my heavliy Dem (80% Kerry) neighborhood, I had person after person tell me, "I don't care who runs in November. I just want Bush out." No problem there. They were counting the days till November 2.

The hard part was with the less-informed. Bush had this amiable image on TV and constant favorable publicity, and the less-informed 1) could not see the urgency of getting rid of Bush, and 2) could not perceive a clear message about how electing Kerry would improve their lives, because he just talked in bureaucratic sounding generalities. Remember that although a lot of people lived better under Clinton, but an equal number of people didn't, losing jobs to NAFTA, so they were equally down about both parties.

That's why the candidate in 2008 has to be more than just A Non-Threatening Non Republican. The candidate has to be The Positive Inspiring Alternative Whose Election Wlll Make a Noticeable Difference in Your Life. None of the DLC suits being mentioned fills that prescription.

[cmd]

30. It's my fault we lost in '04

I didn't work hard enough. I didn't recognize the pitfalls and am willing to take the blame for the loss. Go right ahead, blame me. I'll deal with it. When you are finished, I'm ready to work with each one of you; but only if you are in the game to win. If you don't want to be part of the team, stay home.

[ulysses]

33. ok, so let's build that bridge.

Tell us your ideas.