No, it's time for the DLC to go.

[Guaranteed]

The only thing they ever did for us was happen upon an extremely charismatic man named Bill Clinton that they managed to slip into the White House for two straight terms, who in the meantime did very little to actually move our country in the progressive direction. Even when we HAD the power, they did nothing with it.

In fact, looking at Congress in particular, we've done nothing but lose since 1992.

The DLC has no strength. No beliefs, no principles. No vision. And, most of all, they have no guts.

With the DLC, we have come to where we are today. And they haven't learned, after all this time. They're still triangulating- and not even WELL- instead of showing leadership. They continually undermine our party's principles. They refuse to stand up for what's right.

I find it hard to believe that we're even having this discussion. We've resolved to get rid of them so many times before, loss after loss after loss.

Yes, there will always be those who stray from the party principles for their own personal gain. It's expected- sometimes. But do we want them controlling our party?

The DLC is an already dying, if not dead, organization. Enough is enough. They're dead weight, holding us back.

[Mark E. Smith]

1. Let's Help The NeoCons and Beat Ourselves Up

I'm sick of this stupid shit.

[Cascadian]

3. The DLC is holding us back.

As well as cleaning up the mess of the Neocons, we must clean up the mess of the Neocon wannabes of the DLC. They are the ones holding the Democratic Party back. I would love to aim at just the Republicans but you cannot deny the Democratic Party has a problem inside the party that must be addressed.

John

[Guaranteed]

4. Well, shit, I'm sorry, but they keep coming back

to lose for us again!

Personally, I'm sick of THAT stupid shit. The losing, and the triangulating, and the losing some more, over and over and over.

When is enough? When will you have had enough?

[Mark E. Smith]

9. I honestly am having trouble figuring out what it is

... you're talking about.

You mean things would have been different if we'd nominated Kucinich?

[Guaranteed]

10. No, I'm not a Kucinich guy, either.

There's a happy medium. They are WAY too far to the right.

Many others here on DU are WAY too far to the left. The ones who say things like "There's no such thing as terrorists." Way too far.

But we need strong principles. We need to fight hard for worker's rights, universal healthcare, a SENSIBLE foreign policy that isn't based on bigotry, while retaining the right to defend ourselves, civil rights and liberties, low or non-existent deficits, reproductive rights, education, alternative energy and a strong middle-class.

And we need to be fighting HARD for those, and understand where our beliefs are.

[Mark E. Smith]

11. Oh. So who best personifies these ideals for you?

[Guaranteed]

12. Howard Dean. nt

[Mark E. Smith]

15. Right.

Dean is OK. He's certainly an awesome fund raiser. But as far as a potential candidate who speaks to my concerns, I prefer Wesley Clark.

Here's an article you should read. According to the author Dean's much ballyhooed progressivism might be a little bit overstated.

Common Dreams: An Old Style Centrist

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0425-06.htm

[Guaranteed]

17. Clark would be in the same league,

except that I don't trust him like I trust Dean.

When I hear Clark, he's definitely telling it how it is.

Dean's not running, anyway. The man who I'm supporting for 2008 is Al Gore. He knows what's going on. He knows the positions that need to be taken.

But Dean is the guy to watch. What he does, everybody should be doing.

[Capn Sunshine]

21. again with the same canard

mention Dean, out comes the old shopworn Common Dreams hitpiece.

The author of that screed is convinced the only way to advance progressivism in this country is to destroy the Democratic Party.

No one ever said Howard Dean was a big lefty progressive. But, unlike mainstream DLC Dems, he APPEALS to these types because he's a straight up honest guy who doesn't play games and calls a spade a spade. I realize this is a foreign concept, brutal honesty, but it's THAT that appeals to the liberal progressives, a guy who can articulate without fear. Who takes it to the other guys. You can squirm all you want, but it's the new way of doing things, and the same old same old just isn't going to wash any more, because people ARE united, and just because there's something happening but you don't know what it is, Mr. Jones, do not be afraid.

[Mark E. Smith]

22. Why is it a hit piece?

Dean is hardly a torch bearer for the left. And he has at times expressed admiration for the efforts of the DLC. So what?

I don't think this necessarily makes him a bad guy. Pragmatism is a virtue in my book, and making sure the Democratic Party doesn't fall into small warring factions is an important job. And fortunately Dean recognizes that and he puts a lot of effort into keeping that from happening.

As I said elsewhere, I support the Democratic Party in all its manifestations. The people I find troubling are those who would happily split the party because they believe it would give some sort of advantage to a narrow agenda that they hold so near and dear.

Some folks just need to remember who the real enemy is and stop the destructive infighting.

[union_maid]

8. Look, I'm usually pretty moderate

At least I'm moderate in the sense that I used to understand the term. I do believe we'd be better off with almost any Democrat that Bush. Or for that matter almost anyone, period. I do vote for the Democratic candidate and I vote in each election like it's the most important thing in the world.

But it's not an election year yet. We're not even at the 2006 primaries. This is as good a time as any to fight for the soul of our party.

[lvx35]

2. No, BS. Its our party now.

And we want them to be a part of us. I am extremely proud of the Clinton legacy, what that man did for our country in comparison to dumbass chimp.

WE - WILL - NOT - BE - DIVIDED.

We will continue to streamline this party into a more agressive republican destruction machine than it ever has been before, and those who don't like it? Well, they can step out of the way, now can't they????

hugs.

[Guaranteed]

6. They're the one's doing the dividing! They're the ones

who refuse to adhere to, at least for the most part, our party's principles.

They capitulate on worker's rights, abortion, gay marriage, foreign policy...I could go on and on. Everything!

They're the ones fucking up. And because they don't articulate real beliefs, because they insist on triangulating and cowering, our country continues its downhill run.

[lvx35]

7. Well good to hear you talk that way.

I hope you are part of the effort to make this party meaner and more to-the-point, which people are working on every day. We will not capitulate. Be strong and be PART of the party. Maybe its time to Mr Niceguy to the side, but that does NOT mean we dislike MR. Niceguy!

[unkachuck]

5. If you weren't so right....

....I'd have to disagree with you.... :)

[LittleClarkie]

13. For an organization that has no strength

we sure do talk about them alot.

It would seem we give them much strength by allowing them to sap our energy as we shake our fists against them.

So much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

For fuck's sake, work for progressive candidates. Don't vote for DLC candidates. But can we stop beating our tits about the DLC and get back to Bolton, Plame, DSM, the Iraq War et al?

[sojourner]

16. Well, yes I s'pose we can. Can we stop those who are trying to throw DLC

shit in our faces? Probably not. Do I feel compelled to rail against them? Well, yeah....tho I agree it may not be too productive. Well, except it sure builds a head of steam...........

But you are right. We need to keep our focus on what's in front of us now. Let Hillary bleat about the DLC. Let's get back to the DSM and Rove/Treason-gate. And thanks for the reminder...but I still wanta smash the trolls bringing that crap over here in the face....

[sojourner]

14. With Howard at the helm of the DNC we are finally speaking truth

and telling it straight, no bullshit and no bowing to the right. No need to -- the democratic party IS the party of REAL values. The DLC is just afraid that the grassroots democrats are going to take away THEIR hopes and dreams of power and $$ at the trough of the American taxpayer.

We can and we will fight for what we believe in. We can and we will keep telling it like it is, calling a spade a spade. And if that's too raw for people, then let then try playing pat-a-cake with the BFEE and their ilk...but I'm not going to play along. I dismissed my daughter's efforts to be an idealist when she voted with Nader based on conscience. I thought back then, "We need to be united". Well, they showed me. And how! So, I will no longer go along to get along.

[Guaranteed]

18. That's the most important thing.

No more bullshit. From the right or the left.

[sojourner]

19. yes.

:toast:

[whirlygigspin]

20. agreed

Purge the system