DLC - "morally bankrupt, and politically disastrous"

[bloom]

The Democrats' 2008 Choice

David Sirota

July 27, 2005


The 2008 Democratic presidential candidates this week are busy genuflecting at Corporate America's alter—otherwise known as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Now, it's true—the DLC is really just a group of Beltway-insulated corporate-funded hacks  who have spent the better part of the last decade trying to undermine the Democratic Party's traditional working class base—a base that had kept Democrats in power for 40 years and now, thanks to the DLC, has been forfeited to the Republicans. Even so, the fact that these presidential candidates feel the need to bow down to the DLC is a troubling sign about whether the Democratic Party is really serious about regaining power in America.


Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business—even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda.

Now, you could make a credible argument that the DLC's corporatization/Republicanization of the Democratic Party was justified, had it led to electoral success for Democrats. Few would argue that today's split-the-difference Democratic Party  hasn't followed the DLC's policy direction over the last 10 years. That means the last 10 years of elections really have been a referendum on whether the DLC's model—regardless of any moral judgements about it—actually wins at the polls.

And that's when we get to the real problem with the DLC—its policies are BOTH morally bankrupt, and politically disastrous. The rise of the DLC within the Democratic Party has coincided almost perfectly with the decline of the Democratic Party's power in American politics—a decline that took Democrats from seemingly permanent majority status to permanent minority status. In this last election, just think of Democrats' troubles in Ohio as a perfect example of this. Here was a state ravaged by massive job loss due to corporate-written "free" trade deals —yet Democrats were unable to capitalize on that issue and thus couldn't win the state because the DLC had long ago made sure the party helped pass the very trade policies (NAFTA, China PNTR) that sold out those jobs. <more>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/featuredposts.html#a004729

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050727/the_democrats_2008_choice.php

[bloom]

1. "DLC, the GOP's best friend"

DLC CEO Al From: "You've Got To Reject Michael Moore And The MoveOn Crowd." (NBC's "First Read," March 1, 2005)    "Rank-And-File Democrats `Are More Like Us Than MoveOn,' Which From Called A  Group Of `Elites, People Who Sit In Their Basements All The Time And Play On Their  Computers.'"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/13/16489/4501


As far as I'm concerned - if the DLC is anti-MoveOn, they are anti-DU.

[Clark2008]

32. They may have been at one time, but, after five years of Bush, they're

a lot more like Michael Moore and MoveOn.

Dems are getting PISSED.

[bloom]

34. Who

is "more like Michael Moore and MoveOn"? I'm not following...

[Clark2008]

39. The average Democrat is now more like Moore and MoveOn

They're pissed at their leaders failures to crack the media, election fraud and Bushism - they're demanding action, now.

But, I'm afraid there are still many, many sheeple Dems. :(

[bloom]

41. It's a weird thing

The DLC trying to "distance themselves" from us.

As I posted downthread, on the DLC site is posted:

"Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe."


Of course they are very vague about who all they are including in the "anti-American fringe". But since they are against MoveOn and Michael Moore - it would seem that covers a lot of people. I consider myself a pacifist - so I know they are against me. (I think that makes them anti-American - seeing as how I am as much of an American as any of them.)

And there is no way I'm going to support this continual war on the world they have going on.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

55. nevermind

[CTLawGuy]

43. somehow I don't think so

they don't like mike moore and Move on because those people oppose the war that the DLC supports.

[Raksha]

101. Correction: If the DLC is anti-MoveOn...

...they are anti-Democratic, both the party and the principle. But then we knew that.

[Q]

2. Huffington's post on this issue:

"It’s hard to have an “American Dream Initiative” headed by someone whose every recent move has been driven by triangulating calculation.

“I have always tried to strike a balance,” Hillary once said. “I think you have to view the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be.” That's a long, long way from RFK’s famous line (quoting Shaw): "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?'"

Remember, Hillary is the one who, before the 2004 election, cited the president as someone “we owe a debt of gratitude” to for capturing Saddam. Which is playing right into the GOP’s hands. The Democrats will never return to power so long as they allow Republicans to present themselves as the party best suited to keep us safe from terror, instead of exposing all the ways in which they have actually left us much more vulnerable and unsafe than before.

The good news is that the DLC’s disingenuous call for unity was a bust… except in the way it united the progressive blogosphere. Because if there's one thing that can bring progressive bloggers together, it's another clueless call by the DLC for capitulation "unity."

Long gone are the days when the DLC was the only game in town. Now the pushback was instant, with bloggers tearing into the DLC, each sounding different notes but together creating a clear chorus of dissent." --- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/arianna-huffington/hillaryas-aamerican-d_4738.html

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bloom]

7. We need to encourage the "centrists" to have "unity" with progressives

instead of the other way around.

This is from the DLC (it was obviously NOT written by a progressive):

"...It's too late to argue against Iraq's future on the grounds that the war was fought for the wrong reasons. Weapons of mass destruction -- the clincher reason why I supported the war -- have not been found, but mass graves have been. The bodies are still being counted; estimates today are between 300,000 and 400,000. That's why, even in hindsight, I don't regret the liberation of Iraq. History, I'm convinced, will show that saving the Iraqi people was the right thing to do. With luck, and smarter diplomacy than the Bush administration has practiced, it may also show that liberating Iraq was the watershed that finally broke the downward spiral of a politically benighted and economically strangled region whose only notable export, other than oil, is murderous jihadists....."

Peter Ross Range, a former Time Magazine correspondent in Germany and Vietnam, is editor of Blueprint Magazine.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=307&contentid=252474

Sounds like pro-war propagada to me. Who else does that? hmmmm...?

[CWebster]

12. Mass graves from ongoing war and sanctions

never seems to be a consideration in this rationale.

Aside from corporate influence, the DLC bows to AIPAC and their Likud priorities - which keeps the players in line with the PNAC agenda.

[bloom]

17. About the only advantage

over the Republicans is the DLC doesn't seem bent on advancing the Christian Coalition agenda. But that has always seemed to be smoke and mirrors for the "real" (neo-con) agenda anyway.

[Cha]

15. In an illegal, bogus, immoral

invasion..

"Remember, Hillary is the one who, before the 2004 election, cited the president as someone “we owe a debt of gratitude” to for capturing Saddam."

hillary is "striking a balance" for herself..helping herself and her ambitions.

And I've met her and was very excited at the time..Then when she voted for the IWR..I put the picture I took of her in a drawer.

[Armstead]

3. Spot On

It might make sense to compromise if it works. It makes no sense to compromise ifg it is a losing strategy.

The only damn Democratic DLC victory was Bill Clinton -- and that had more to do with his personal charisma and a pseudo-liberal message than the misguided decision to get into bed with Corporate America.

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. Amen!

Good Post!

[Totally Committed]

6. Bill Clinton was a "DLC Victory" only because...

he stood up and fought tooth and nail against every Republican sling and arrow thrown his way. He countered in kind... something From and the DLC have advised against repeatedly, culminating in 2004, with the most ill-fought, weak-ass campaign and candidate in history. We are living in the oppressive choke-collar of the RNC today because the people we elected have too often taken their stupid advice.

And, Clinton, while being a charismatic and intelligent President, was not as socially Liberal as I would have wanted. His deals on behalf of Labor and the Poor disappointed me on a number of levels, and I have always felt it was because he was in Corporate America's pocket.

The DLC has blown it for us twice now. I am unwilling to give in and cooperate to allow them a third. Never again.

[depakid]

37. Ross Perot

Without Perot in the 92 race, Clinton most likely would have lost....

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

98. not true-biggest and most-repeated myth in recent political history

clinton was leading bush in the polls by wider margins before perot got back into the race in sept. all perot did was tighten it up

i'm opposed to the dlc, but i just want to correct that myth every time i hear it. the gop started it to diminish the dem victory of '92 and pretend that america was inherantly rightwing

[Catrina]

8. And don't forget

Ross Perot ~ that helped Clinton, who was pretty much unknown at the time ~ Perot took votes from Republicans ~

So, the DLC wants us to forget that starting a war based on lies is a crime and impeachable offense?

It's interesting that their 'let's unify and forget past crimes' statement came out just as the special prosecutor appears to be getting close to indictments for those who lied and then tried to cover up their lies, about getting us into an unnecessary war!

They really are trying everything to save those responsible from using Hillary to get support from Democrats, to 'investigating the investigator'. They really do insult our intelligence, don't they?

Tell you what, I'll listen to the DLC when they condemn crimes committed in our name, such as torture, wars based on lies etc. etc. We don't need to 'get on board' with them, they need to 'get on board' with us. It's about 'right and wrong', not 'right and left' for their information. Simple, if you care about right and wrong, which apparently they don't.

[CWebster]

13. But you see, when it becomes about right and wrong

and not Right or Left, they call you a "purist".

So much for their "values", huh?

[Cha]

16. That will be when as one

DUer puts it..."A snowball is whizzing past Satan's head"!:evilfrown:

[checks-n-balances]

20. Exactly - what won in '92 doen't fly in today's GOP-takeover atmosphere

We probably can't out-do the GOP in what they're good at - and why would we want to? They lie and play games and smear better. Isn't it POSSIBLE that the public is waking up and yet the DLC doesn't want to adjust to that fact?

Here's a great reader's comment to Sirota's entry today:

"...Are they neo-cons disguised as Democrats?

Consider the evidence:
1) The DLC are almost solely supported by corporations, who generally support the Republican Party.

2) They have almost no grassroots support, but are an inside the Beltway "Astro-turf" organization – just like a lot of other fake populist groups.

3) They strongly supported the Democrats suicidal strategy to ignore the Iraq issue in the 2002 elections – despite the fact that almost constituent mail was running 10 to 1 the other way.

4) They hammered the Democratic strategy in the 2000 campaign – while it was going on and again immediately after the Florida debacle.

5) In 2002, they hammered any Democrats who even tried to raise basic questions about the Presidents' foreign policy.

6) They get glowing press from the media. Post quotes them, editorial boards publish them, etc.

7) They freely bash other members of the party, and undercut attempts to present a strong unified message about what they believe,

8) The DLC has never made any attempt to work with the rest of the party – just to take it over completely.

9) They jumped to attack the one Democratic candidate who generated any excitement on the 2004 campaign trail – Dean.

10) Their policy director is a former Hoover Institute, Christian coalition staffer – is he really all the way on the other side?

11) And of course, they have never, ever questioned the effectiveness of the tactics they proposed – just like the neo-cons.

All circumstantial evidence, but aren't they acting like a corporate front to infiltrate and destroy the major opposition party?

Seriously though, I do think that they are just intellectually arrogant and just hate being reminded that they were completely and utterly wrong about Iraq and the consequences of comproming with this administration..."

I would add to that writer's comments that the DLC seems to go out of its way to avoid any semblance to events of The Sixties - i.e., war protests, environmental activism, alternative viewpoints, etc. Right-wingers have been hammering away against these things for so many decades in order to discredit their messages, and it seems to have worked with the DLC. They seem to view all of us as "leftist hippies." And the only criticism I'm hearing from this group isn't geared toward the GOP, but toward left-of-center Dems.

[bloom]

29. Lots of good points.

It is very odd how NON-grassroots the DLC is. Like this is what the corporate lobbyists want.... and they are leaving the people in the dust.

Plus they said themselves - that they don't like pacifists and (depending on how "fringe" you consider yourself) called us anti-American. :grr:

"Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=307&contentid=253472



(Made it to the Home page - yea!! :bounce: )

[xxxx4]

99. Traitors in our midst

"...Are they neo-cons disguised as Democrats?"

I would say, most definitely.

[bloom]

9. "the DLC is doing everything it can to undermine House Democrats" (CAFTA)

Friday, July 15, 2005

DLC Stabs Dems In the Back...As Usual

The Beltway-brain-rot insiders at the DLC have once again stabbed Democrats in the back, this time releasing a report defending the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) in an effort to help President Bush attract enough peel-off Democratic votes to pass this corporate-wirten atrocity. I am on book deadline right now so I don't have enough time today to go into all the reasons that CAFTA is bad, except to say look here,here, here, and here. I also don't have enough time to go into how this just once again proves the DLC exists to help Corporate America corrupt the Democratic Party. But make no mistake about it: the DLC is doing everything it can to undermine House Democrats, who are trying to stand up for America's middle class and stop this corporate-written atrocity. Even the House New Democrat Coalition is against CAFTA - but apparently, that's not OK with Corporate America and its reliable allies at the DLC.

As if the DLC is just an arm of the Bush White House, the organization timed this release perfectly to coincide with Bush's final push for the legislation, as if they are just an arm of the Bush White House. Despite the DLC's pathetic, transparent rhetoric about wanting to "bring a spirit of radical pragmatism" to the debate, what the DLC is showing is that it is an organization devoted to urging Democrats to sell their souls to the highest bidder. That may sell well with the DLC's corporate funders in Washington, D.C., but out here in the heartland, that kind of gutless behavior only hurts the Democratic Party over the long run."


With working links see:

http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/07/dlc-stabs-dems-in-backas-usual.html

[truebrit71]

10. Fuck the DLC. If I wanted to support the gop I wouldn't bother coming here

..these miserable bunch of appeasers make me ill....

[bloom]

11. "The Progressive Legislative Action Network" launching in August

Moveon, SEIU, Steelworkers Join PLAN in Seattle

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - 7/15/05
Contact: Steve Doherty [phone]
Contact: David Sirota [phone]

PLAN ANNOUNCES CO-SPONORS & DETAILS OF SEATTLE KICKOFF EVENT
Conference to be supported by, among others, Moveon.org, SEIU, and the United Steelworkers of America

Helena, MT – The Progressive Legislative Action Network (PLAN) today released the full details of its upcoming kickoff event in Seattle on August 16th entitled Planning Progress 2005: Defining a Positive Progressive Agenda for the States. The event is being co-sponsored by, among others,Moveon.org, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the United Steelworkers, and progressive philanthropists Andy and Deborah Rappaport. The event will feature, among others, Former Vice Presidential nominee and North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer, former California House Speaker Willie Brown, Center for American Progress President John Podesta, and state legislators from across America. For more on the event, see the attached detailed agenda and go towww.progressivestates.org.


http://www.progressivestates.blogspot.com/

http://www.progressivestates.org/

[ihaveaquestion]

23. This looks promising!

Could this be the beginning of a new national party - the Progressive Party?

I really truly hope so! :bounce:

[PassingFair]

52. Yup,

they asked for it, it looks like their gonna get it.
I'll bail on the dems for a progressive party.
As far as I'm concerned, the DLC is on notice.
If Howard goes, I'm gone in a New York minute.

MoveOn was the hardest working group in the last election. They practically had to fight the dems to campaign for THEIR candidate. We worked our asses off for Kerry, whilst being turned away from dem offices with phrases like "Lawn Signs Don't Vote".

[Peace Patriot]

18. 58% of Americans opposed the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion.

I'll never forget that stat. Feb. '03. And it was across the board, in all polls--with about half of that 58% against the war outright, and half against unilateral action (without UN support and international consensus). That's when I began to realize that most Americans are peaceful and progressive, not stupid, lazy and clueless, and that--very important to know--the majority of Americans have been DISENFRANCHISED.

"...even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq..."-David Sirota

Sirota says "NOW oppose." It's just not true. Americans opposed it FROM THE BEGINNING--nearly 60%! There was a brief dip during the invasion--with US troops at greatest risk--then it went right back up to 60% and I think it's above that today. Americans have NEVER supported this war.

And when you look at OTHER stats--for instance, 63% of Americans oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (May '04)--not stupid, lazy and clueless, nope, not fearful either, sticking to their sense of justice, and ethics, and lawfulness, despite relentless fearmongering--you begin to understand that something ELSE is going on here beneath the surface, and out of the visible range of, most political commentators.

Sirota blames the Democrats' loss of Ohio on NAFTA. I don't think that's what happened at all. I think that the vast number of ordinary people were willing to forgive the Democrats and give them another chance, IF ONLY THEY WOULD RID US OF THE BUSH CARTEL. The Democrats refused to give us the candidate we wanted--a populist antiwar candidate, who would have swept a real election by a 20% margin, in my opinion. Instead, they caged the protesters in Boston, and gave us a candidate who never said a word about torture, who said, not that the war was wrong, but that he would run the war more efficiently, and who also said not a word about global corporate predators and war profiteers. EVEN SO...EVEN SO...people flocked to the polls to vote for Kerry as a protest against Bush.

The Democrats had a BLOWOUT SUCCESS in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40. The vast majority of those new voters voted for Kerry. The vast majority of independent voters voted for Kerry. The vast majority of Nader voters voted for Kerry. And the Gore 2000 voters were, of course, highly motivated to oust Bush, and are the ones who got all their non-voting family members, friends and co-workers to register and vote THIS TIME ("the most important election is our history").

Who else is there? (Bush 2000 voters and...? Karl Rove's "invisible" get out the vote campaign? Uh-huh.)

This was true in Ohio as it was across the US. And Ohio was particularly motivated. People stood in ten hour lines to vote! Thousands of people volunteered to help get out the vote and monitor the polls--there, and in other states. And ordinary people across the land had meanwhile kept Kerry competitive against the Bush money machine--with small donations.

My estimate of the Kerry margin of victory--based on all the election evidence--is about 10%, not enough to overcome the Diebold/ES&S switch of 3% to 5% mostly in the eastern time zone, and the massive voting roll purges and voter suppression in Ohio and Florida, but nevertheless a significant victory for the little guy--the grass roots, the voters, the workers, the unemployed, the under-paid, the under-served, the black, the brown and the poor, as well as for the overwhelmingly socially liberal middle class.

The truth is staring us in the face--indeed, it is screaming at us--in poll after poll after poll after poll showing that 60% to 70% of Americans oppose every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. You name it. Iraq. Torture. Social Security. The deficit. It's not just Bush's utterly dismal approval ratings (which were so low, last year, that he could not be re-elected, according to Zogby--are at sinking Titanic levels now). It's that MOST AMERICANS disagree with him ON EVERYTHING...

AND...

...he and his Cartel are ignoring that majority because their buds own the voting system (--80% of the vote tabulated by Bushites at Diebold and ES&S with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code).

Sirota says, "...just think of Democrats' troubles in Ohio... Here was a state ravaged by massive job loss due to corporate-written 'free' trade deals —yet Democrats...couldn't win the state because the DLC had long ago made sure the party helped pass the very trade policies (NAFTA, China PNTR) that sold out those jobs."

"...yet Democrats...couldn't win the state...." But Democrats DID win the state. And if you add up all the votes that were switched, purged and prevented, they won it big.

I don't disagree with him on the DLC. I loathe them. But I think, a) what they may have cost us was the 20% margin needed to OVERCOME Rove's election fraud plan, and b) these are the folks whose catastrophic failure of leadership on the Bushites' "corporatization" of the election system with "trade secret" vote counting software destroyed our democracy.

_______________

The answer to the stink in Washington DC is restoring our right to vote, by throwing Bushite electronic voting machine companies--Diebold, ES&S and brethren--out of the election business NOW! At best, we need a return to paper ballots and hand counts. At the least, we need to achieve some measure of election transparency with paper ballot backups to electronic systems, strict auditing and security, and no secret, proprietary programming code!

The only place where we can get this done is in state/local jurisdictions, where the authority over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some influence. The bipartisan corruption in the electronic voting business at the state/local level is daunting, but it is nothing compared to the bipartisan corruption in Washington DC, and it is local and therefore much more fixable.

Join your local election reform group--or form your own--and help get this done. Our right to vote is fundamental and essential to achieving "consent of the governed." Without it, we have no say in DC or anywhere else. This is a very urgent matter! It is something that WE can do. And it something we MUST do!

See the DU Forum "2004 Election Results and Discussion" for information and action ideas:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

Also see Amaryllis' post on Diebold/ES&S/Sequoia lobbying of election officials at the Beverly Hilton this August--it will burn your eyeballs!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

[Peace Patriot]

21. If we don't understand what really happened, then our solutions are

going to be flawed. If we don't understand that election reform is the key to getting our country back, then we are not going to get our country back.

Systemic election fraud --that is, an election system that is inherently non-transparent and fraudulent--is the key to all other issues. It is WHY the Bush Cartel is ignoring the will of the majority on every major policy.

I also think that the COOPERATION between all grass roots groups (which are greatly antiwar and anti-"free trade")--and the DNC/DLC elite of the party (largely pro-war and pro-global piracy)--was the key to the 10% margin of victory in 2004, and if the DNC/DLC side of that bargain had not been so corrupt themselves on the matter of electronic voting--letting Bushites get private control of the vote count (I mean, come on...)--and on other critical issues, we could have overcome Rove's election fraud plan.

If we HAD overcome it, then I think we would have had a serious "terrorist" incident to shut down the west coast voting, but that's another story. I'm talking about what we need to do NOW.

I think some compromise needs to be made with these politicos who are so thick into global piracy. Something needs to be worked out. We're not going to be able to smash Corporate Rule or war profiteering easily or soon. And I think our first priority must be restoration of our right to vote--because, without it, both parties can ignore (and have ignored) the will of the majority.

Think of Germany 1933-34. The condition for Hitler's rise was the fracturing of the center-left.

I think one of the reasons the DLC/DNC threw the last election--and I do think they threw it--is that they didn't want a president who was beholden to the grass roots. (And, for all Kerry's "I'll do a better war" stance, he would have been obliged to listen, on this and other matters.)

Did they betray us? Yes. So what? There are all kinds of betrayals. DC is a slime pit of betrayals of the people. Who can we work with to straighten this out, clean house and restore democracy? That is the question. And what kind of trade policies, and policies on Iraq and on Israel, can we work out with this leadership--if any--to get back to "consent of the governed"?

[bloom]

30. You make a lot of good points, also...

"Some people" would have us believe that the issue is just Republican vs. Democrat as if that is all that mattered.

I think it's a matter of getting back a party that represents us instead of the multi-nationals. And I have talked with State Representatives who feel the same way. They are not part of the whole DLC mentality. At least not all of them.


The DLC would like to paint the anti-war people as fringe & anti-American with comments like this,

"Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=307&conte...


They aren't much than the people who burned the Dixie Chick's CDs because of the Dixie Chick's Bush* comment. As if to dissent is anti-American. Sheesh.

[xxxx4]

100. I agree completely

I think the US is in much, much, much more trouble than anyone believes (at least publicly). This country is on the verge of another Nazi Germany, and if anyone can't see the parallels then their head is in the sand. The DLC is a Trojan Horse meant to cripple the Left indefinitely.

[Nitrousoxide]

27. No majority support on any subject?

EVERY issue doesn't favor Bush? Surely more recent polls on the war give a statistically insignificant difference between support and opposition of the war. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/27/AR2005062700270.html">Washington Post

In fact, we see a majority of people finding themselves feeling safer thanks to the war and willing to spend up to a few more years in Iraq until the situation stabilized, hardly the death throws of a president who has no support.

That isn't to say every issue favors him or is too close to call, just that the issues his presidency relies on do find favor among the American people.

[NMDemDist2]

46. and a link to Microsoft.com proves what? certainly not the latest polls nt

[Hidden Stillness]

19. Their Only Agenda is Corporate

The thing to remember about the "D"LC is that they are not "centrist" or "moderate" or any of these psedo-social words they use. Their interests are first, last and always, corporate; they remake laws to advance their corporate donors just like Bush and Republicans, and never even address themselves to the populace. That would be "neo-left McGovernite" and "extremist."

[Burried News]

22. To lead a party you have to have soul.

We all calculate to various degrees but if we are not grounded in truth and service and love then we are not fit to lead.
Where is the love DLC?

http://www.pink-floyd-lyrics.com/html/hey-you-wall-lyrics.html
"Hey you, out there in the cold
Getting lonely, getting old
Can you feel me?
Hey you, standing in the aisles
With itchy feet and fading smiles
Can you feel me?
Hey you, dont help them to bury the light
Don't give in without a fight.

Hey you, out there on your own
Sitting naked by the phone
Would you touch me?
Hey you, with you ear against the wall
Waiting for someone to call out
Would you touch me?
Hey you, would you help me to carry the stone?
Open your heart, I'm coming home."

[Jacobin]

24. DLC consists only of the walking dead

The rotting corporate corpse of these republican wannabes is stinking up this country and needs to be mercifully put down.

[earth mom]

25. Looks like the rethugs are stealing the Democratic party & calling it DLC

and we aren't supposed to say anything?! :wtf:

I have no doubt that Rethugs have Insidiously and Methodically undermined the democratic party in an attempt to destroy it.

Hillary and Bill are rethugs in liberal clothing-judge them by their actions and it will be very obvious as to what they are all about. :puke:

Their supporters can thank them for NAFTA-since it will be the ruination of jobs and livelihoods in this country.

Welcome to America, a third world country.

[Pithy Cherub]

26. This was excellent to distribute.

Thanks for posting.

[ClintonTyree]

28. There will be no argument from me about this piece.........

it's a summary of what many here at DU have been saying since 2002.
My only hope is that the freaking DLC reads and heeds this message, or else we're in for one hell of a battle in '08. Then again, that's just what they want, divide and conquer. Screw 'em. As far as I'm concerned they don't exist.

[Orion The Hunter]

31. The DLC is behind the times!

The DLC needs to start listening to Howard Dean since he is must more in touch with the rank and file of the party than those corporate-loving fossils!

[bloom]

33. ...

Yeah - it's not new to me, either. (But some people haven't got the memo, yet).

It seemed that the recent Ohio meeting got some DLC people revved up and arguing on their behalf. Some people talking against liberals on DU - for crying out loud. :crazy:

[GoreDean2008]

35. Bill & Hillary: Co-Bush-Lites-In-Chief

Before we defeat the Republicans, we have to defeat the DLC first. They are continuing to weaken our country and our party.

[depakid]

36. Pretty hard to argue with that analysis

...especially since it's exactly what I've been saying over and over for the past 10 years....:banghead:

[Voltaire99]

38. Nice article. Let's be honest: the DLC is *worse* than the GOP.

With the Republicans, one largely gets what one is promised: favoritism for the rich, war upon foreigners, the elevation of theocratic values.

The DLC offers the same bitter pill yet sugarcoats it, dishonestly advancing its corporate pro-war religiously-indulgent values behind the rhetoric of "bipartisanship" and triangulation.

A pox on both their houses. Progressives can find no shelter in either.

We need significant reform or, failing that, a viable third party.

[Greeby]

40. well

If as Dean says, he's from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Then the Republican wing of the party needs to ship out :grr:

[kestrel91316]

42. Maybe the DLC are all just Republicans masquerading as Dems ...........

maybe they went deep undercover years ago with just this in mind: to get inside the Dem Party and destroy it from within.

Just MAYBE??????????

[aspberger]

44. The extreme left of the party has over-reacted

to the presence of the centrist Dems, which has pushed alot of centrist Dems to act, think, and vote like kinder, gentler republicans. What we need is a homecoming AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK !

[bloom]

45. No

I wonder how old some of these DLC supporters are. Do you even remember that a large constituency of the Democratic party was Labor (see the Truck Drivers rant about this today)?

All of the traditional Democratic constituencies have been abandoned by the DLC - so I'm not buying this "blame it on the liberals" nonsense. The DLC wants the same group of people that Republicans have courted for my lifetime.

To get our country back - we need politicians who want to represent us. We are more mainstream than they know.

[ulysses]

50. overreacted to what?

And if they did overreact and the centrists' reaction was to vote with the GOP, why are we trying to build the party on the backs of those who vote with the clear opposition at the drop of a hat?

[aspberger]

58. Liberals tend to be a priori and dogmatic

centrists are more a posteriori and can handle change without being insecure about their own actions or intentions. Liberals need cuddled and affirmed. Centrist can stand on their own.

[bvar22]

59. Centrist are without ideals.

They care NOT about issues.
They just want the anonymous and safe cloak of Centrism to protect them from having to Take a Stand on any issue.
The CENTER is ever changing as Parties realign themselves after each election, and Centrists are happy to follow this ever changing direction. They avoid the responsibility for thinking for themselves.
"I'm a centrist" frees them from responsibility.
They are happy to let everybody else do the work and fight for issues.
After the Heavy Lifting, they proclaim "I'm a centrist!"

Were you a "Centrist" in 2000?

1992?

2004?

Will you still be in the middle in 2008 no matter where the middle goes?

What will you STAND FOR?

Is ther an issue you care enough about that you would take the risks of a Leadership Role?
or will you wait for everyone else to declare, and then say "I'm in the center"!

[aspberger]

65. Centrists have ideals

it's just the world is changing so fast that the politicians on the left are a still smoldering pile of phoenix ashes. The left will be reborn soon but the centrist, who is a twin of the left-winger, has moved forward and forged a path into the unknown for his sensitive brother to follow once the latter has recovered from the shocks of political reality. The ideals of the center are like the laws of quantum physics whereas the ideals of the left are like the laws of newtonian physics. These two systems are not in agreement but one is definitely more applicable to man's new perceptions and the age which gave birth to these new perceptions.

[bvar22]

68. Lofty rhetoric, but no answer:

I'll repeat the questions:

Were you a "Centrist" in 2000?

1992?

2004?

Will you still be in the middle in 2008 no matter where the middle goes?

What will you STAND FOR?

Is ther an issue you care enough about that you would take the risks of a Leadership Role?
or will you wait for everyone else to declare, and then say "I'm in the center"!

[aspberger]

71. THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE HAS CHANGED

The whole world has moved to the right. We live in this righter world so in order to get business done we must speak the language of the times. Old fogy expressions are musty and stale. But in the end, the centrist will never let go of the leftest hand. For me, I support Hillary.

[bvar22]

75. Exactly my point.

The Political landscape CHANGES every day, therefore "Centrists" must change every day.

On the issues, Hillary has moved to the right (censorship, continued support for the CorpoWar, endorsements of bush*, choice, and others)
Did YOUR stand on the issues change with Hillary's?


Is there an ISSUE you will STAND FOR no matter where the CENTER goes?

No matter where Hillary goes?


BTW: The DLC, in spite of their propaganda, are FAR from the Center.

[aspberger]

81. That's where trust , faith, and risk come into play

Hillary is a political animal, a survivor of the first order. I trust her to do the prudent thing and I am betting my life and my children's lives will be better with Hillary as President.

[xxxx4]

102. "the centrist will never let go of the leftest hand." Oh sure, NOT!

The centrist will screw the left values just as Clinton did during his reign (although he was a 1000 times better than Chimpy McNazi). Clinton caved to the right-wing idealogue again and again.

[aspberger]

115. my point is this

the left has yet to have the presidency. The presidency represents the head of the executive branch of government. This is a power position and no true leftest has held it. But centrist democrats have and they will always be the non-orwellian big brother of the left.

What is needed is trust. And respect. Don't bite the hand of the big brother who jumps in the area and battles the repukes.

[Eloriel]

85. Are you a fiction writer?

You're certainly no political analyst. Fiction is the closest I can come to this flight of fancy. Really remarkable flight of fancy, too.

[aspberger]

93. The world wide left is in a slump

The centrist have just adjusted to the new political reality. I do believe this with all my heart-UNLESS WE COME TOGETHER AS A PARTY (and not just at election eve), WE ARE GOING TO FALL BACK INTO THE MIDDLE AGES. IT IS UP TO ALL OF US TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION, ME INCLUDED.

[ulysses]

88. project much?

Liberals need cuddled and affirmed.

:eyes:

[aspberger]

91. Freud was totally discredited by Victor Frankl

He said if Freud was correct, he would have never survived the concentration camps.

[ulysses]

92. whatever.

This is tiresome. Care to back up the claim that liberals need affirmation?

[aspberger]

94. This is how I see it.

Centrist are a bridge to the greater political community. IMHO you can just tell.

[ulysses]

95. which still doesn't address my question.

Why am I not shocked? :eyes:

[aspberger]

96. I'm sorry

but i cannot give you the answers you want. I wish I could.

Talcott Parsons used the analogy of looking at a statue. If one was on one side of the statue, that person saw an image. If another person was on the other side, that person caught a different image. Who is right? Well they are both right even though they see different images because it is the same statue.

I feel that is where we are at. In this case, "the statue" is a Democratic sweep in 2006 and winning the WH in 2008. That is the good news.

[ulysses]

103. why not? I'm asking you about your own statement.

Liberals need cuddled and affirmed.

That one, in case you'd forgotten. I'd like you to back that up. They're your words, surely you can do that.

[aspberger]

104. this is my opinion

and there is no absolute right or wrong. And as for backing it up, I have no standing army but, I bet, neither do you

[ulysses]

105. I don't need an army

and I didn't make the unfounded statement. You did.

[aspberger]

107. this goes back to the a priori problem with the left

unless they can touch it, feel it, test it, put it in the lab and poke it they refuse to deal with it. Life comes at you and a lot of what happens cannot fit into the narrow framework of an a priori orientation. I could give you examples of situations I have encountered which would give you some insight into why I think and feel the way I do but such experiences of mine would prove nothing from your frame of reference, and would be highly inflammatory.

I give you the last word. HILLARY 2008.

[ulysses]

108. friend, I'm not even sure you know

what a priori means.

I could give you examples of situations I have encountered which would give you some insight into why I think and feel the way I do but such experiences of mine with prove nothing from your frame of reference and would be highly inflammatory.

Try me.

I give you the last word. HILLARY 2008.

Mmm hmm.

[Skidmore]

106. What ulysses said and

more of it. If it walks like an R, quacks like an R, then its an R with DLC feathers.

[Zhade]

60. What, exactly, is the "extreme left"?

I wasn't aware there were so many Stalinists and Maoists on this board!

:sarcasm:

[aspberger]

61. I mean the extreme left within the American realpolitik

The political great-grand children of Eugene Debs and Huey Long.

[Zhade]

63. And they were bad why?

And their followers number in the...what? Thousands, maybe?

[aspberger]

66. Not bad but

I am trying to define what Imean by the "extreme left".

[Zhade]

73. Well, you're closer than most DLCers, that's for sure!

NT!

[bvar22]

64. If you examine positions on individual issues,

The DLC is the Extreme Hard Right Fringe within the Democratic Party.

Issue for issue, the MAJORITY of voters within the Democratic party agree with DKucinich. That would make HIM the center!

[aspberger]

67. With all due respect

Isn't that an awful hairpiece he wears?

[bvar22]

69. Are you interested in "good hair".

Or are you interested in whether you and your children will be able to find a good job with HealthCare and a guaranteed Pension?

I WILL concede the hair issue, since it is completely irrelevant and really pathetic to waste time on.



EDIT: You should have seen Kucinich's stand against CAFTA just now on CSPAN. He was ON FIRE!!!

Where do the Centrists stand on CAFTA?

[aspberger]

74. Seriously

He should go bald or be a non-candidate groomer.

[bvar22]

76. I have been respectful so far, but

are you a young blond woman?
Do you hang out at beaches?

You seem to be more interested in appearance than issues that will affect you and your family for the next 50 years.

[aspberger]

80. Kennedy beat Nixon in their debates because

Kennedy looked like a winner. Ron Reagan also was a style with substance candidate. If I seem to be splitting hairs or sounding ridiculous just remember visual is stronger than the verbal. Also, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Zhade]

77. Hope you're ready to say the same to Joe "Plugs" Biden.

Such a deep political analysis, that.

:eyes:

[aspberger]

82. I don't like Joe Biden

ever since he was busted as a plagiarist.

[Zhade]

97. Good, you're not a total loss!

Joking! (Not that you ARE a total loss...er...you know what I mean) :)

[TankLV]

84. Huey Long "leftist"? In what universe.

Maybe "populist" in some perverse, criminal way, but hardly "left"

He felt very comfortable with the KKK and other not exactly liberal groups.

Nice try, tho - NOT!

[aspberger]

90. share the wealth was left of center for its time

n/t

[wyldwolf]

47. I knew ignorance was bliss ...I just didn't know it was damned wordy

I knew ignorance was bliss ...I just didn't know it was damned wordy. I mean, seriously ... how many times can you cut and paste the same ol' "I Hate the DLC" drivel and call it new material?

http://www.gregsopinion.com/

This guy ripped Sirota a new one after Sirota's last hit piece on the DLC

http://www.gregsopinion.com/archives/005332.html

[whitehousemoron]

48. David Sirota, a DLC hater

Mr. Sirota ia a morally bankrupt, politically disastrous DLC hater. Apparantley, Mr. Sirota loves the way Washington is at the moment. You aren't going to change how the Democrats lose if you don't change the fundamental way the liberal wing of the party acts. The DLC is the wave of the future if you want to win elections. If you don't want to jump on the bandwagon, that's your problem. We'll go with the winners.

[ulysses]

49. "the fundamental way the liberal wing of the party acts"

And how would that be, pray tell?

[TankLV]

86. Wow - they sure are coming out of the woodwork tonite!

All loyal dems - yeah and I've got some swampland in the desert near Vegas to sell ya!

They think we don't know their true identities.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[ulysses]

89. no shit!

[ldf]

53. huh?

the dlc is the wave of the future??? then when the hell does the future start, since the dlc hacks have been running the show for the last 10 years?

sorry, the republican wing of the democratic party, known as the dlc, needs to be sent packing to where it belongs, the gop.

with them out of the way, we CAN be the soul of the democratic party.

we've got the numbers and the money (thanks to dean waking up a whole new batch of voters.)

and they KNOW we have the numbers and the money. that is why they are so desperate to stop us.

[Brianboru]

109. You are so correct.

The DLC is removing the differences between the parties.

But instead of sending them packing, lets try to bring them back.

[PassingFair]

54. You will go down in flames.

Your bandwagon will go nowhere without wheels.
If it takes another election cycle to weed out the compromised cancer in the democratic party, so be it.
Under your "wave of the future" we will all drown anyway.

[Q]

56. Strange...it seems that Dems were the majority party long before...

...the DLC showed up. And coincidentally...they became the minority party AFTER the DLC showed up.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

57. Interesting profile

"if you don't change the fundamental way the liberal wing of the party acts."

And how would that be, Mr. Newbie? :hi:

[name not needed]

83. Hmm... 5 posts and he's already trashing everyone to the left of

Joe Lieberman!

[bvar22]

62. or, you could change the way the DLC acts.

When polled, the overwhelming MAJORITY of Democrats OPPOSE positions taken by the DLC on the issues. The DLC should unite behind the MAJORITY and support liberal issues.

Universal healthCare

NO expansion of the War in Iraq ( majority on 1yr timetable for withdrawal)

No Free Trade

MORE regulation on Big Business


Seems like its the DLC that should "Get with the Program".especially if they want our votes.

[Zhade]

79. There you go, facts instead of rightwing rhetoric.

I simply don't understand how the DLC can claim to be interested in attracting voters when it holds stances on these important issues that clash with a majority of the American public.

[Telly Savalas]

72. .

:rofl:

[Zhade]

78. Yawn.

"Wave of the future"!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[name not needed]

87. Wave of the future?

Yes, because in the future, Democrats will win elections by fucking over their constituents and selling out to any corporation that wants them.

[tibbir]

51. Excellent piece.

The DLC must be muzzled. Democrats don't stand a chance with it around.

[Albert Cirrus]

70. DLC=DickLess Centrists

[Fluffdaddy]

111. And being a centrists is a bad thing?

As far as being dickless, I'll check next Time I'm in the shower

[AntiCoup2K4]

113. Being a corporatist is a bad thing.

Being a PNAC appeaser is a treasonous thing.

There is nothing "centrist" about the DLC's positions. If Bush & PNAC are extreme right, yet the DLC votes to support their agenda, how can they by definition be centrist?

[cascadiance]

116. More like DLC = DickLess Corporatists!

Corporatism and Centrism (Moderate) are NOT the same thing. And the DLC should be continually made aware of that fact and not allowed to distort their policy as somehow "uniquely" representing "middle America", when they represent Corporate America. Big difference!

[Totally Committed]

110. Part 2:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1964899&mesg_id=1964899

[AnnieBW]

112. DLC=

Democrats Losing Consistently!

Besides, what's wrong with people that sit around and play on their computers all night? Our money is just as good as the "latte liberals"!

[Geek_Girl]

114. I think the DLC is looseing power and influence

Most DLC members voted against CAFTA.

It's a good sign that an organization who's purpose is to influence policy is in trouble when their own members aren't listening to their own policy recommendations.

[PATRICK]

117. Adding on vote fraud

points out the absolute illogic of trying to play the middle ground. The hot news from Road Kill cafe is not going to earn ANY new voters from anywhere while they are working overtime- those failure anti-Dems who should have been purged naturally last election- to lose votes.

The whole philosophy is doomed on two major fronts. First, by playing it safe and pragmatic it allies itself with the ills an opposition party should oppose- not offer weak ways to "do better". In this case they dampen and obscure rather than tap into the majority opposition to the current horror show which is probably the most egregious national emergency in our history outside of the Civil War. secondly, they aid and abet the theft of any amount of ballots by dampening the perception of dissent, giving cover to just about any needed editing of tabulations.
This further emboldens the corporate media misinformation which the DLC more than toadies to. Just about every relation with the press from this middle perspective is disastrous.

It is time to gore our oxymoron DLC. The reason the real pols like to gaggle around this organization is more than because it is an inspiring support group. It is the core of the big money donations needed by the previous pragmatic wisdom which also began by giving up on citizen support- which when the Internet tapped into easily, turned out to be a self-fulfilling lie.

And we are supposed to believe the Dems thus influenced will give us election reform- something else they rarely like to think about or put into their own survival calculations even as they nickel and dime for meaningless parity percentages? The Communists and the Bushites all tell us the unpleasantness will all fade away when the Day comes. And it never does before everything goes to hell.

The DLC obstructs even more than the media machinery, their own undefended agenda. It might be great to find out what odd things are in From's bank account and where all that big money comes from, but if the results are exactly the same as if drawn up in Cheney's boardroom then the cure is the same too.

The wild eyed radicals for all the occasional similar language of disdain have been more than willing to work with moderates and conservatives for the best interests of the country. Not so the sullen incompetents of the Mammon wing.

Pragmatic deals with the devil always go from tolerable to disastrously evil over time because the doors are always kept open for the bad and slammed shut on the idealists. This is radically apparent in the Bush test which from flunked long ago and no GOP machine is going to rig his score for him. Facing away from reality, from the popular will, from the progressive(not slave state regressive) demands of this time and the crises of the future is murderous, un American and inhumanly dedicated to a culture of money, death and blindness. That used to be an extreme thing to say. But the proof is literally everywhere.

The only patience the DLC has lost with all the horrors and crimes floating around their circles is with anyone interested in truth or doing something positive. Their patience with their own moral and political failure is infinite or at least until all chances are so utterly lost that they can sneer "No one else could have done as well as us".

The failure centers around the stony hearted bureaucrats of the DLC organization, to the pols they have hoodwinked and seduced like some eager infomercial audience who collaborated with outrageous crimes, to the people who try so hard to idolize their populist champions that they ignore the DLC high priced baggage they proudly drag with them.

In a way it IS instructive that the people who attended the DLC circle as credible candidates have probably sealed their fate as being fundamentally lacking the qualities of leadership necessary to be mayor of a small town. They will not be good candidates and would be easily fated to be much more actual stooges of an interregnum collapse for which they will be given all the blame as they delight in the perks and prestige of their office. It will be a very sour day for the party if one of those "wins" office with these delusions intact while the Bush agenda goes safely underground(maybe). It will be another victory for a lie and the costs will keep mounting along with the frustrations of sentient Americans. Vying to be the next smoking Joe makes these candidacies pathetic in the extreme. Now that's fringe and real crazy.