I think Cafta is a good thing

[Wetzelbill]

First of all, it brings in all kinds of jobs. This thing wasn't written by corporations, but well-informed Congressman elected by us, so that they can look out for our interests. And, job creation is definitely an interest for the American people. Granted, in the past Nafta etc, have ended up a mess, but this will work.

Next up, it's free trade. FREE TRADE! All of you out there who complain about CAFTA are just protectionists. If we isolate our economy in that manner we'll end up in another recession, if not even a depression.

It also has a great amount of labor protections and helps Central America. If we don't allow our companies to go down to Central America well these people wouldn't have any jobs. They would stay impoverished, with no health care, their environment will go to hell and their markets wouldn't be opened up to the goods would would bring down there. This way, poor Pablo* will get to work hard in a factory once he hits 8 years old and make a good salary, and then once he saves up a months worth of pay, he will be able to buy a Coke or a Pepsi or one of the other American goods that will now be available to him due to CAFTA.

That's how it works and that's why globalization is a good thing. So, what you all are complaining about doesn't even make sense. YOu have no argument, so just quit standing in the way of progress. America, Fuck Yeah!

*I don't know anybody named Pablo.

:sarcasm: (did I even need this)

[kaygore]

1. Check out CODEX and then see if CAFTA looks so good!

[ironman202]

2. if we can't compete with these pip squeak states

who's collective GDP is equal to the Czech republic, then we're really in trouble. It's a tepest in a teapot.

[redqueen]

8. No, it's not.

How can we compete if they get paid slave wages?

You wanna join them earning a few dollars a day, do ya?

[ironman202]

16. so your complaint is that they pay low wages...

well then get them to raise their standards. What does that have to do with free trade?

[redqueen]

18. Are you really unaware that they just shoot unionizers in these countries?

Why don't *you* go down there and get them to raise their standards... see how far you get.

[Mass]

21. CAFTA does exactly the opposite

It destroys the very limited firewalls that exist currently and that force these states to have some real though very limited workers rights.

CAFTA = slavery for Central American Workers.

[eleny]

3. Yoiks

[Mass]

5. CAFTA = slavery for Central American Workers

(as the OP explained).

[eleny]

9. I agree

It would be awful.

[redqueen]

4. Yeah...

I think you needed the sarcasm tag... thanks!

You spared yourself a lecture from me, at least. :hi:

[Wetzelbill]

11. Oh you like me too much to lecture me

You may have gently smacked me around though. :)

[Tux]

6. But

CAFTA will make us rich!

Just another excuse to send jobs overseas. Like India and China didn't get enough, we have to expand on employment welfare for them instead of aiding them in creating their own corporations.

[Robbien]

7. Ha! I had to keep looking back at your name while reading this POS

all the while thinking who held you down and forcefed the Koolaid down your throat.

Sign the petition everyone. Congressman Pollone will be carrying it in with him for tonight's vote against CAFTA.

http://www.pallonefornewjersey.com/petition/CAFTA

fill out the email info, click and you are done

easy

[Wetzelbill]

10. Signed it, thanks for posting this

[EVDebs]

12. BushCo hasn't created a 'net' new job since he took office

And now he wants to make sure even more jobs get outsourced offshore along with the profits (which only go to Wall Street). Main Street has been clobbered and it's time to FIGHT BACK.

If your congressman/woman votes for this turkey VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE (Dem OR Rep !).

[Wetzelbill]

15. My Congressman is Jim Kolbe, he's a huge supporter of CAFTA

He's going to be on Lou Dobbs tonight defending it.

[Patty Diana]

23. All I have to say is thanks for Ed Pastor___he's the only representation

I have__and just look at the shit these real Democrats are putting up with. They're getting it from those evil DLC crats too. Hell we ought to start posting petitions from all state here___we're bury them in mere numbers. All the votes have a direct affect on everyone in all states. I'm dying for them to demand I report for jury duty, because I'm going to demand that they prove the my vote was counted.

[Wetzelbill]

24. Pastor and Raul Grijalva are the only members of AZ's Congressional ....

delegation worth a lick.

[Somawas]

13. I read an article the other day about how the Mexicans

demand too much. Co. could get 4 Hondurans for what they have to pay a mexican.

[Wetzelbill]

14. see that's how these sick puppies think

[JDPriestly]

17. Great satire. Thanks.

[Wetzelbill]

19. Shameless kick

:kick:

[Robbien]

20. Everyone please sign Congressman Pellono's petition

which he will be taking in with him to the vote tonight.

The Tom Delay all night arm twisting session until he gets his votes.

Petition to stop CAFTA

http://www.pallonefornewjersey.com/petition/CAFTA

[Wetzelbill]

22. did you post it as an OP somewhere?

It might be a good idea to do that or if you did already to kick the thread.

[Robbien]

25. I feel like a spammer today

It has its own thread and is posted in every thread I could fit it in.

[Wetzelbill]

26. great work

at least you're fighting for it. I signed it, so you got me on board.

[Cha]

27. No you didn't even need this

thing :sarcasm:.

Edit~Nominated.

[meganmonkey]

28. You get a gold star

for memorizing all the RW talking points. And sounding almost convincing! ;)

[Wetzelbill]

29. Woohoo a gold star!

[EVDebs]

33. 15 Democrats sold us out...here's the link

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00170#position

also

http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/07/which-of-15-dem-sellouts-should-start.html

has the list and commentary. A sad day for US taxpayers and workers.

[Mass]

35. That makes 25 - 10 in the Senate and 15 in the house.

[lostinacause]

30. Two things

A high number of economists (over 90%) support free trade.

Neither Democrats nor Republicans seem to have any idea how to regulate in a free trade environment.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. NAFTA + CAFTA = SHAFTA

[Wetzelbill]

32. This Wetzelbill guy is a genius

He knows what he's talking about. :)

[lostinacause]

34. To be fair

"first of all, it brings in all kinds of jobs. This thing wasn't written by corporations, but well-informed Congressman elected by us, so that they can look out for our interests. And, job creation is definitely an interest for the American people. Granted, in the past Nafta etc, have ended up a mess, but this will work."

The argument of trade agreements bringing in jobs is kind of useless. The employment rate is generally fairly fixed in an economy. The biggest gain that could be realized, assuming proper regulatory adjustments are made, is specialization in high productivity industries. These industries are generally associated with high paying jobs and it would provide an opportunity for Americans to increase their standard of living. This, of course, would require major changes to various agencies; primarily education and skill development.

"Next up, it's free trade. FREE TRADE! All of you out there who complain about CAFTA are just protectionists. If we isolate our economy in that manner we'll end up in another recession, if not even a depression."

The theoretical economic justification for liberalization of trade, especially given different resources, tolerances of pollution, and worker abilities, is strong. This of course does not mean that all parts of CAFTA or any other trade agreement are in the interest of free trade nor that all people will be better off because of this or any other trade agreement.

"It also has a great amount of labor protections and helps Central America. If we don't allow our companies to go down to Central America well these people wouldn't have any jobs. They would stay impoverished, with no health care, their environment will go to hell and their markets wouldn't be opened up to the goods would would bring down there. This way, poor Pablo* will get to work hard in a factory once he hits 8 years old and make a good salary, and then once he saves up a months worth of pay, he will be able to buy a Coke or a Pepsi or one of the other American goods that will now be available to him due to CAFTA."

First of all you have to understand that different areas have different economic realities. In some countries the level of wealth is so low that even at a young age it is necessary to work. Although it seems horrible to us that someone of that age would be working it is not the issue you make of it. Regarding the poverty and the resulting health problems that are a result of it; again these are going to exist regardless of whether or not the trade policies are in place. As the wealth of the people of a nation increases these problems are generally reduced. Solving either of these issues through trade policies is excessively complicated and what we think is the best solution may actually be detrimental because of our lack of understanding of the issues they face. Most of the issues are better raised through financial aid or consumer movements. (Consumer movements are generally more effective the when trade is liberalized.)

Issues regarding pollution are harder to deal with. An increase in pollution may be beneficial to the people if it corresponds with an increase in wealth (increasing the standard of living and possibly life expectancy). Problems with accountability of the governments tend to prevent the decision of how much pollution is emitted from being made by the people and because of this the net effect of the trade policy depends on the response of the government.

NOTE: This is an issue that transcends political ideologies. To anyone who is going to call me a conservative or some other derogatory comment don’t waste either of our time. It seems to be all too often that insults are hurdled without any debate or discussion. This only acts as pollution to a forum. Also if anyone wants clarification of a point please ask, I would be more then happy to respond.

[lostinacause]

36. I sure do know how to kill a thread.

approximately 30 posts disagreeing with me and no responses. :-(

[CWebster]

37. Well, you are right

in case China pulls anything we will have a back-up plan to provide a slave workforce to provide the cheap merchandise to give struggling Americans enough buying power to buy trinkets at Walmart.

It is the thrown bone to keep the pack quiet.