The DLC--I'm not buying the talk that it is going down--see this NJ poll

[Gloria]

and you will see why. (posted from another thread where it was buried)

I'm not so sure the DLC is going down, as much as I want it to....

In this interesting NJ poll, you will see that Hillary tops the list of Presidential names at 40%!

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/vi...

If the average voter doesn't know about the DLC or how it differs from other Democrats and just goes for the "name" candidate with the $$...if that candidate is DLC, then DLC wins and usurps the rest of the party!

Right now, Hillary has the name and is raising money. I just got a "2005 Critical National Survey" mailing from Hillary. Where would that money go? Well, the address on the back says "Friends of Hillary"....(aghhh! FOB, remember?)

The mailing is like one of the national surveys the party sends out...but it's from Hillary...

I fear the worst!!

[NMDemDist2]

1. We could do worse than Hillary as a candidate. I heard her in Aspen

on C-Span the other night. The lady is very smart and she'd be mountaintops above any repub around.

[tedoll78]

10. Silly, silly DUer..

that's so logical that it's downright crazy around here!

If I have to take a DLCer as president, I'd much rather have a real Republican instead. Why pretend.. right? Let's give 'em the Supreme Court until 2050, and the power to end birth control rights, and the power to lock-up the homos for private consensual acts, etc, etc.

There's no difference.. right? :sarcasm:

[NMDemDist2]

16. ROFL

ain't the first time some one's called me silly :crazy:

:rofl:

just don't call me late for dinner.......

[Eloriel]

12. I just hope to God we can do better -- 'cause if not,

repeating myself from another thread that touched on the subject: JUST SHOOT ME.

Yecch.

[Blue_In_AK]

14. I'm with you, Eloriel... n/t

[NMDemDist2]

15. Well, Eloriel, I'll take Hillary as the first woman president over Condi

or that horrid woman from Texas (Kay Bailey is it?) or worse yet... Libby Dole :puke:

I still say we could do lots worse.....

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. I think the point is that

we could do lots better.

Can we start at the starting line and not the finish line?

[RoyGBiv]

18. My problem with Hillary ...

I don't know if this is the right place to make this comment, but then I can't think of a better place at the moment. This is not necessarily a response to you. Your comments just inspired the thought.

You're right we could do worse, much worse. There are many aspects of Hillary's ideology that are both in fitting with my ideology and possibly more importantly the mainstream American ideology. Certainly there are some very important parts of her performance and those things she seems to care about that I do not particularly like.

But that's really not the thing with me.

When I was 14, for some reason I ended up with my name on a politician's mailing list. He was a local Republican running in a county that hadn't elected a Republican to any office since statehood. (Of course, this is Oklahoma, so that doesn't mean as much as it might.) With his fund-raising letter, he sent a questionnaire that he said he would take and compile into a list of result he would personally deliver to the governor, if he were elected.

Several weeks ago, I got a questionnaire from Hillary Clinton. To the best of my memory, the questions are almost identical to the ones asked on that questionnaire I got when I was 14 from a Republican.

I don't tell this anecdote to suggest she's the same as a Republican. The questions were generic and probably the typical thing most politicians would ask. But that is the thing. She asked typical questions that most politicians would ask. For a President, I want someone who asks questions that are not typical and pays attentions to the answers because the typical thing that has been done in Washington lately is simply not working.

IOW, don't ask me what the most important issue facing the country is and give me a list of eight or ten possibilities using such generic concepts as "The Economy," "Foreign Relations," etc. Republicans, Democrats, and apolitical people might answer any of these things and mean something completely different by it. Show me you actually give a shit, Hillary, and then I might give a shit about you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. If it's any consolation, in the summer of 2003, I saw polls

giving Joe Lieberman as the clear front runner.

We all know how that turned out. I'm not worried too much about anyone's standing at this point.

[wli]

3. very serious parallel power structure ploy

Oddly, this ploy is most typically a neoconservative tactic.

[punpirate]

4. It's early yet...

... and if one goes by past elections over the long term, the early birds get over-exposed, then crash and burn early.

BTW, I hear that the "2005 Critical National Survey" has nothing in it that smacks of anything that matters. True?

Cheers.

[welshTerrier2]

20. it's true, mr. pirate ...

here ya go: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1961981&mesg_id=1961981

i'll be kicking that thread up shortly if no one else does ...

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. It's actually worse than that, Gloria.

Because the DLC are the only "Democrats" that the Whoremedia will recognize, the only names even being mentioned for President in 2008 are Hillary and other DLC'ers like Evan Bayh, Joe Biden, Mark Warner, etc. Granted, Joe Six Pack couldn't give a flying fuck about 2008 right now, but if this is the situation in 2007, it could be hard for a real Democrat to get noticed. Unless another Dean or Clark appears out of nowhere and demands recognition.

And that works for me ;)

[Jim Sagle]

13. Me too. But it sure didn't work for Dean. The media nuked him.

x(

[Gloria]

23. Exactly, the air is sucked out of other people...Let me say, I am NOT

against centrists necessarily. What I am especially bugged about is the way the DLC seems to speak the language of pandering to Republicans. They go overboard on it...it's one thing to strategically act collegial or compromise, but they just go way too far. And oftentimes, the actual policiesgo too far into GOP lite-land and erase whatever you thought the Democratic position was.

To sum it up:

Bill Clinton with Bush I uniting to do something for tsunami victims= OK

Yachting with Bush I = too far

[LSdemocrat]

6. Hillary is a hell of a lot bigger than the DLC

[bloom]

7. Propaganda/MSM is a powerful thing

that is why grassroots and the internet are going to be so important.

[tjdee]

8. Yes, it'd be so horrible to have a Democrat in the WH again.

I am 1000% happier to split hairs and deal with the DLC than to deal with any of the Republicans likely to run.

I'd rather get some of what I want, and fight about the rest, than none of what I want.

[KoKo]

9. I think that it's important to keep supporting a strong viable LEFT

alternative. If she's the only choice we are faced with at least she will have a LEFT Dem coalition that's as STRONG and FEARCE as the RIGHT WING has been for Bush.

We have over three years. Let's get going on this and not worry so much about who the 08 Candidate is. By that time...much else could have happened. The lazy will be satisfied thinking that a Hillary/Bill Presidency will come in and sweep away the cobwebs and terror of the Bush P-Residency. But....what the Repugs have done to this country in dismantling EVERYTHING we've known will be a huge factor within the next couple of years...the Dems might be viewing such a "wasteland" to preside over that a Hillary/Bill will seem like a bandaid...and not the panacea they thought by 2008. :shrug:

[punpirate]

17. I don't think that coalition will want much to do with her...

... as she drifts rightward. If she keeps up at the rate she's going, her politics will little resemble those of anyone of the left, except for reproductive rights.

And, if it becomes apparent that she's the front runner in 2008 and is assured of the nomination, that right-wing conspiracy she was fond of talking about ten years ago will rip her apart--and don't think such isn't in the planning stages now. They'll smell blood and it will be all over for the Democrats again for a few years.

Barring a complete collapse of the economy between now and 2008, there's not much chance of her reaching the White House. If she does, if one goes by her votes in the Senate and her position statements thus far, we won't be seeing many constructive changes, which is only going to further disenchant the left.

Cheers.

[OzarkDem]

11. Don't read too much into that

Public approval for Hillary doesn't translate into support for the DLC.

[sunnystarr]

19. I didn't know about the DLC until I joined DU

and I paid attention to politics ... by an average person standard. In 2000 I lived and breathed the Gore/Bush saga, I even read the FL Supreme Court decisions. Because of that "selection" I started paying even more attention in 2004 and looked for other Dems. I joined the Kerry forum and through them found DU. I've always been a Dem but never got into the party ins and outs. I can't imagine that even 1% of the population can tell you what DLC means.

So coming from a wet-behind-the-ears perspective, we have the devil (Darth Vader or Voldemort if you prefer) in the WH and I see a tug of war in the Dem party. It's kind of like being invaded with tanks on the street, but hey it's time for a family squabble. When facing the loss of our democracy and the many horrendous things that entails, it's time to ban together in unity to destroy the enemy.

When I see the lies, distortions, destruction of our rights, of people, the victims of this senseless war, the war profiteering, etc. etc. etc... I get depressed, feeling helpless and hopeless and all I can do besides contributing $, writing LTTE, filling out polls, calling my congressmen, is to search here for direction and any glimmer of hope that somehow we can regain the excecutive and legislative branches. When I see this rift in our party, I only get depressed and fear that something like this can only lead to defeat.

Can't this fight wait until we get these monsters out of office? Can't everyone work together to get the seats back in Congress and the Presidency?

We're at war ... and I don't mean the War in Iraq. The stakes have never been higher. Let's fight it together. United we stand ... divided we fall.

[bloom]

21. The DLC is for increasing the military

and increasing recruiting on campuses for starters. How does that help do ANYTHING about the "senseless war" or even the war profiteering. The DLC wants the war to go on.

That is why we are fighting for the Democratic party. Because we want a party that is against that. Against starting wars against countries because the countries are not cooperating with our corporations and the multi-nationals.

Progressives are for fundamentally different things than the DLC. That is why the DLC says they want to put distance between them and us.

[sunnystarr]

22. I love Howard Dean ...

I would suggest that all our support should be thrown to a progressive candidate in the primaries. But if the Dem candidate is from the DLC I'll still vote for them ... I would never vote for a R or throw it away on a Green. Assuming of course that we've succeeded in having our vote COUNT by that time. With everyone's limited energies, I would prefer seeing them directed to the issue of BBV or all of it won't amount to hill of beans anyway.