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ok, so Bush/Blair seem resigned to pull troops out asap--

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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:53 AM
Original message
ok, so Bush/Blair seem resigned to pull troops out asap--
political exigencies.

I don't suppose they'd do so w/o assurance that the 14 permanent bases will remain in Iraq; that the oil will remain under U.S. hegemony, etc.?

Let's focus: if we pull troops out, exactly how are "we" to retain control of whatever it was "we" went to war for?

I'm trying to figure their strategy.
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't care
:rant: If they stop bombing London, then they can keep their goddamn oil.

Sorry, but I'm mean, nasty and tired right now
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. My ? arises because I think our odds of winning are greatly enhanced
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 06:18 AM by snot
by knowing the enemy and their myriad motives and strategies.

We all have every reason to feel tired, afraid, angry, cynical, freaked out, etc. etc. I wonder whether even the most prescient among us ever imagined it would get this bad, so fast.

I asked because I need your and others' help in thinking about this.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. get this bad, this fast
We are brutal occupiers in their country, robbing their wealth, destroying their social and cultural infrastructure, ransacking their heritage, torturing their people, reducing their cities to rubble, killing their children--What the hell do you expect? Gratitude?
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. what I meant was
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 06:28 AM by snot
I at least am somewhat surprised that the Bush Admin has managed to wreak so much destruction so quickly. To human life, to our ideals, to our economy, to civil rights, etc. etc.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I never expected anything less from the Bush Cartel. The shock, to me,
has been, a) the corruption of the Dem leadership at the local, state and federal level on electronic voting --letting Bushite companies gain private control over the tabulation of our votes with "trade secret," proprietary programming code--and saying nothing, NOTHING!, and b) the extent to which the Dem leadership is pro-war even though the majority of the country (nearly 60%) is outright antiwar or anti-unjust war, with the Dem grass roots overwhelmingly so (Dem leaders messed up in war profiteering, and Israel--big, big divide between Dem leaders and grass roots).

I thought the Dem Party had learned some lessons from the Vietnam war (the Dems' doing--2 million slaughtered), and from Reagan's war on Nicaragua (Iran-Contra), and they did, for a while. All gone now. Slaughter over 100,000 people to loot, plunder and dominate? Destroy the fabric of our law with torture and indefinite detention? No problem. The Dems sit back and let the Bushites do it--and let the Bushites take the rap for the deaths and the cost--and say nothing, NOTHING! Most of them.

A third outrage was NAFTA, GATT and other "global free piracy" agreements--which have destroyed the financial fabric of our nation, and have created indentured slave laborers all over the world, to the benefit of US-based global predators. But that was Clinton and the DLC. Now that the damage is done and the precedents and the labor profiteering are all in place, some Dems are backing away from it--and that's good. I'm glad to see it. But that was a huge betrayal of the Dem working class base--huge! It will be decades--maybe centuries, if the planet and humanity survive that long--to restore simple justice (fair wage, benefits, safe work place).

I knew about the "corporatization" of the Dem leaders prior to 2004. So the biggest shocks, for me, lately, have been the destruction of our election system with Dem complicity, and unjust war with Dems actually voting for it and not strongly opposing the war and the torture even now, as the horror of it, and the 100% lies about it, and the egregious, evil war profiteering, become more fully revealed.

The key to what the Bush Cartel has been able to accomplish so quickly can be found in the Dem leaders' catastrophic failure of leadership on electronic voting. That's the heart of it. The Cartel shouldn't have this kind of power. 60% to 70% Americans oppose every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. They do NOT represent the majority of Americans. But the election system itself is now in rightwing hands. And I guess the Dem leaders--who are well off themselves--are benefiting from the tax cuts, the boondoggle of electronic voting systems (voting systems are now big business deals), war profits, and campaign contributions from our corporate rulers and from kneejerk Israel supporters, and they have just gone off the deep end. They no longer represent the poor.

And even if our corporate rulers permit us to have Dem as prez in '08, it will be a pro-war, pro-global pirate Dem, and it won't make much difference. It will be just for the purpose of cleaning up Bush's disastrous war, and a few other catastrophes, and running the bread lines more efficiently.

I know it's not popular around here to blame the Dems for Bush. But we really need to face the truth about the situation, before we can even begin to solve it. I don't think we're going to get anywhere until we restore our right to vote, and start electing people who truly represent the interests of the majority. Some Dems do. Many don't--and the ones who don't absolutely were calling the shots on 11/3/04, and still are.

In Feb. '03, all opinion polls were showing that nearly 60% of Americans opposed the Iraq war--BEFORE the invasion. I'll never forget that stat. And who was representing this majority? Who?

We still have a chance to fix our election system--at the state/local level. That's what we should be doing, if we want to see a change for the good. It's not glamorous work, but it is the essence of democracy. Without the right to vote, we have no power. And it's just very, very, very clear that that is where we are at. No vote. No power. No. say.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm inclined to agree, but still
I wonder, if we're pulling out troops, how will the neocons retain the hegemony they presumable sought by invading?

Of course it's possible the talk of withdrawal is just pre-2006 election talk.

But if not, I'm just wondering what other kinds of back-room control the neocons might have managed to install.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. After Nov. 2006, the troops go BACK in
or at least you will see the draw down stop.
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osama_bin_BUSH Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. GOP'ers are evil
The GOP and its evil religious minions are a threat to the entire world. Just take a look at some of their banter and opinions on Muslims.

http://tigersmack.com/forums/index.php?topic=2304.0

and

http://tigersmack.com/forums/index.php?topic=2310.0

These people are ALL DANGEROUS!

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