To all DLCers

[knight_of_the_star]

I have a VERY simple challenge.

From 1988 on, list off ALL the DLC-backed Democrats, who used the ENTIRE DLC platform, excluding Bill Clinton, who won an election and was sworn into office on a Federal level.

ON EDIT: As was pointed out in the first post, it isn't fair to make them have to be COMPLETELY pure. So instead they will have to have run on the key points, so to speak, of the DLC platform.

[DaveinMD]

1. I'm not a DLCer

but no politician runs on the entire platform of any party or organization.

[expatriot]

25. 6 hours later and the author of this thread hasn't responded

to your quite legitimate point, but rather he chooses to post that it has been 6 hours and no one has taken him up on his challenge. geesh.

[AtomicKitten]

2. It's tough to exclude Bill Clinton

but I know you must to prove the point you're trying to make.

[AllyCat]

26. Okay, include Bill Clinton. That's one, count 'em ONE guy! That's it!

[CTLawGuy]

33. he ran on universal health care....

that's REALLLLLLL DLC :eyes:

[AllyCat]

34. The FIRST time he ran on a populist platform that included

universal health care. It was great. I heard him here in Madison and he did a great job addressing the crowd and I really believe he wanted to get the things done that he promised in his campaign speeches. Then it didn't happen for many reasons, but not for lack of trying on his part. I voted for him. I believed he could do it in 1992. 1996 was another story, but I digress...

What I am saying is that if we use DLC members elected and include Bill Clinton (OP said to exclude--I'm saying include Bill), we still have one and only one person meeting the criteria. I did not feel Clinton ran as a populist in 1996. He had been caught getting money from Buddhist nuns that was funneled through China. Universal health care was a dead deal. 1996, he acted DLC and still won. Outside of winning in 1996, how well has the DLC worked since then?

Gore didn't win in 2000. Kerry is DLC. That didn't help us did it? Edwards is DLC--that didn't help either. We've got Lieberman (okay, he's an anomaly). We have 9 members voting for CAFTA on Weds/Thur night. We have the whole group who voted for the Moral Bankruptcy bill. So...what has the DLC done for us? We have Bill Clinton the second time around. Who else? What else?

I think that is the OP's point: aside from Clinton, what else is there?

[woodleydem]

3. BILL CLINTON. He ran as a "New Democrat," a moniker he worked with

the DLC to come up with. This platform included welfare reform, free trade (NAFTA), smaller government, fiscal discipline, and family values. In office, Clinton passed NAFTA, Welfare Reform Act of 1997, Defense of Marriage Act, and balanced the budget (which he did by cutting defense spending). The entire idea of the "New Democrat" label was to distance himself from the traditional liberal Presidential candidates of 1970's and 1980's. We can argue about how much of the DLC platform Clinton actually enacted, but we can all agree that Clinton WASN'T a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. Now, you may not agree with some of Clinton's policies, but he was a champion of the lower and middle classes (22 MILLION NEW JOBS!!!), restored fiscal sanity to Washington (which led to Greenspan keeping interest rates down which spurred economic growth), took serious steps to reduce the emissions of Greenhouse gases (Kyoto), created Americorps, gave $30 billion in tax credits to lower-income families for education, and presided over an unprecendented period of domestic economic prosperity. Oh, and he didn't unilaterally start any wars!!!!

Bill Clinton is the DLC standard bearer. He was one of the founders of the group, and was the chairman of the group. Who is the liberal standard bearer? Where's your two-term President? And to all the liberals who say "what have you done since 1996," well at least the DLC has done SOMETHING!!! Here's an idea: instead of eating our own, let's focus on the Republicans. They are having a good laugh right now because the Democrats are attacking each other, and not them. And to all liberals who say there is no difference between DLC Democrats and Republicans, I ask you this: IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION?

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. I guess you missed the EXCLUDING BILL CLINTON part of the challenge?

Care to try again?

BTW, NAFTA and the Defense of Marriage act aren't exactly worth bragging about.

[woodleydem]

9. No you can't really exclude Bill Clinton because he is the DLC standard

bearer. But FWIW, Al Gore was also a founding member of the DLC in 1984, and he got elected to the Senate a couple of times and became Vice President of the United States. Hillary Clinton, Evan Bayh, Tom Vilsack, Mark Warner are a couple of others off the top of my head. So really, my question is, where's the neoliberal two-term President? The DLC's main guy was living in the White House as recently as 2000. John Kerry, one of the most liberal guys in the Senate, just lost to an incredibly unpopular President by about 2.5 million votes.

Oh, and those current DLCer's I mentioned above, what's most impressive of that list is that all of them were elected in either swing states or red states. (with Hillary being the exception) It's really easy for people like Boxer, Feingold, Kennedy, Kerry, Leahy and the like to be raging liberals--they represent very liberal states. When you actually represent states that have an equal number of Dems/Reps (Iowa) or states that are solidly Republican, (Warner and Bayh) you need to have the ability to reach across the aisle occasionally and make an effort to appeal to independents and moderates. I can't think of ONE liberal who represents a solid red state. Can you?

[OzarkDem]

5. Bill Clinton won because he's Bill Clinton

He's an excellent politician and campaigner. DLC needs to stop riding on his coattails because they have no record of success on their own.

[FrenchieCat]

7. I certainly agree....

Bill Clinton won because he was Bill Clinton.....

[AllyCat]

29. Frenchie, that is one COOL photo!

Love it. Just love it so much and want it to be true.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. If it's time for the freeps to stop blaming Clinton...

...it's time for the DLC to step off the coattails.

[dolstein]

15. There you go again, trying to re-write history

Your suggestion that Bill Clinton's electoral success had everything to do with his campaign skills and nothing to do with his agenda and his record as a moderate Democratic governor of a Southern state is completely laughable. Ideas matter. Perceptions matter. The DLC understands this. The left-wing doesn't.

[woodleydem]

18. I completely agree. It's liberals-in-denial when they say that the only

reason Clinton won is because he is charismatic. Oh, that played a big role, because NO ONE can get elected President in this country without having a personable demeanor. (i.e. see John Kerry) But if Clinton had been a liberal governor, there's no way he would have won on a national stage. Actually, this conversation would be moot because there is no way Bill Clinton would have been re-elected as Governor of Arkansas three times if he hadn't governed from what he called that "sensible center." Welfare reform, balanced budgets, small government, free trade, etc...--those ARE NOT LIBERAL IDEAS!!!! Clinton used his charm to promote his centrist, 'New Democrat' platform to DIFFERENTIATE himself from the static liberal Democratic candidate that kept getting their asses kicked (i.e. Dukakis, Mondale). The DLC can rightfully promote Bill as their guy because he is. And I'll make a prediction right now: a DLC-backed candidate will get the nomination in 2008. (my prediction: Clinton/Vilsack) The liberal wing has a decision to make: either get on board or sit in a corner and pout and let a Republican win. (and to any liberal who says a DLC Democrat is the same as a Republican: IS THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION THE SAME AS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION?)

[bvar22]

6. Bill Clinton USED the DLC.

"With Clinton's election, the DLC -- and its now-formed companion think tank, the Progressive Policy Institute -- lost its status as the arbiter of New Democratic public policy. That mantle shifted to Clinton. "The election of Clinton resulted in his, not the DLC's, setting the bounds of what a New Democrat was," writes Baer. "Clinton's inability to implement the New Democratic agenda caused many to doubt his commitment to the New Democratic cause as well as the utility of the public philosophy generally."

"The DLC had made a political gamble that by backing a less-than-100% New Democrat -- in contrast to men like Robb and Nunn who were purists -- it could push the New Democratic agenda forward. But as with many others, Clinton initially disappointed the DLC. For example, the early Clinton administration chose to place a priority on crafting a plan for national healthcare -- a proposal that the DLC viewed tepidly -- rather than on the more New Democrat-friendly idea of welfare reform. Clinton's much-noted ability to appear all things to all people apparently blinded the DLC, and they were stuck with a public face that did not always adhere to the organization's principles."



<snip>

" At first, like a scorned lover, the DLC has a fit over Clinton's lack of fealty to its cause. In 1994, its then-chairman -- then-Rep. Dave McCurdy (OK) -- publicly denounced Clinton as having "the heart of an Old Democrat." In 1995 and early 1996, some DLC leaders toy with abandoning Clinton, and the Democratic Party in favor of a new party."
<end>

excerpted from:
Book Review: Inventing New Democrats
by Bob Kolasky

Bill Clinton was not a purist member of the DLC. He formed relationships with anyone who could help him.

They DLC still cling to Bill Clinton because they have pathetically few successes. He opened his term with a populist HealthCare initiative that the DLC helped to torpedo. He also vetoed the DLC supported Bankruptcy Legislation 5 times (yes, the one that just passed) . He didn't return to the DLC for help until the Republican Party hobbled him with investigations and impeachment. He then made a deal on Welfare Reform (which was the first priority of the DLC in 1992) for DLC support to finish out his presidency.
He was (and still is) a charming CON who could make you thank him for lifting your wallet.

Bill Clinton used the DLC.

[Geek_Girl]

10. That makes allot of sense

If democratic elected officials starting seeing the DLC as a liability they'll dump them like a hot potato. I'm strongly in support of marginalizing the DLC's influence on democratic policies. And am very pleased to see the progressive bloggers and pundits taking a strong stand and speaking out against their organization.

[dolstein]

14. Bill Clinton was a founding member of the DLC and served as chairman

Sorry, but your attempts to disassociate Bill Clinton from the DLC are laughable.

Were you aware that Al From, CEO of the DLC, was a domestic policy adviser to Bill Clinton during the 1992 transaction, and that Bruce Reed, DLC president, worked in the Clinton White House for eight years, serving as Clinton's chief domestic policy adviser and director of the Domestic Policy Council?

[dolstein]

11. Here's a list of signatories to the Hyde Park declaration

The Hyde Park Declaration was a statement of principles drafted in 2000, which is probably the closest thing to a DLC Platform. An earlier manifesto, referred to as the New Orleans Declaration, was adopted at the DLC's 1990 annual meeting (back when Bill Clinton chaired the organization).


Evan Bayh, United States Senator, Indiana
John Breaux, United States Senator, Louisiana
Lee Brown, Mayor, Houston, Texas
Bob Buckhorn, City Councilman, Tampa, Fla.
Tom Burroughs, State Representative, Kansas
Kevin Cahill, State Assemblyman, New York
Ken Cheuvront, State Representative, Arizona
Michael Coleman, Mayor, Columbus, Ohio
Pat Colwell, State Representative, Maine
Kathleen Connell, State Controller, California
Marti Crow, State Representative, Kansas
Donald T. Cunningham Jr., Mayor, Bethlehem, Pa.
Wayne Curry, County Executive, Prince George's County, Md.
Jim Davis, United States Representative, Florida
Dan DeMarco, Commissioner of Ross Township, Pennsylvania
Dana Lee Dembrow, State Delegate, Maryland
Calvin Dooley, United States Representative, California
Douglas M. Duncan, County Executive, Montgomery County, Md.
John A. Fritchey, State Representative, Illinois
Jeff Gombosky, State Representative, Washington
Ron Gonzales, Mayor, San Jose, California
James S. Gregory, City Councilman, Bethlehem, Pa.
Daniel Grossman, State Representative, Colorado
Lars A. Hafner, State House Democratic Caucus Chairman, Florida
Bob Hagedorn, State Representative, Colorado
Karen Hale, State Senator, Utah
Robert Henriquez, State Representative, Florida
Scott N. Howell, State Senate Democratic Leader, Utah
Sam Hoyt, State Assemblyman, New York
Calvin Johnson, State Representative, Arkansas
Paula F. Julander, State Senate Minority Whip, Utah
Ember Reichgott Junge, State Senate Assistant Majority Leader, Minnesota
Delores G. Kelley, State Senator, Maryland
John F. Kerry, United States Senator, Massachusetts
Kwame Kilpatrick, State Representative, Michigan
Mary Landrieu, United States Senator, Louisiana
Thomas Lazieh, City Councilman, Central Falls, R.I.
Joseph Lieberman, United States Senator, Connecticut
Blanche Lambert Lincoln, United States Senator, Arkansas
Duane E. Little, Assessor, Shoshone County, Idaho
Dannel P. Malloy, Mayor, Stamford, Conn.
Jennifer Mann, State Representative, Pennsylvania
Jack Markell, State Treasurer, Delaware
Stan Matsunaka, State Senator, Colorado
Jonathan Miller, State Treasurer, Kentucky
Tom Miller, State Attorney General, Iowa
Bobby Moak, State Representative, Mississippi
James P. Moran Jr., United States Representative, Virginia
Eva Moskowitz, City Council Member, New York
Ed Murray, State Representative, Washington
Janet Napolitano, Attorney General, Arizona
Martin O'Malley, Mayor, Baltimore, Md.
Marc R. Pacheco, State Senator, Massachusetts
John D. Porcari, State Secretary of Transportation, Maryland
David Quall, State Representative, Washington
Joe Rice, Mayor, Glendale, Colo.
John Riggs IV, State Senator, Arkansas
Antonio R. Riley, State Representative, Wisconsin
Stacy Ritter, State Representative, Florida
Charles Robb, United States Senator, Virginia
Carroll G. Robinson, City Councilman, Houston, Texas
Tim Roemer, United States Representative, Indiana
Linda J. Scheid, State Senator, Minnesota
Allyson Schwartz, State Senator, Pennsylvania
Kathleen Sebelius, State Insurance Commissioner, Kansas
Eleanor Sobel, State Representative, Florida
Ellen O. Tauscher, United States Representative, California
Michael L. Thurmond, State Labor Commissioner, Georgia
Tom Vilsack, Governor, Iowa
Kirk Watson, Mayor, Austin, Texas
J.D. Williams, State Controller, Idaho
Philip Wise, State Representative, Iowa
Jane Wood, State Representative, New Hampshire

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=128&subid=174&contentid=1926>

[blm]

12. No candidate has ever run on the DLC platform BUT Clinton. Gore and Kerry

didn't, and that's why the DLC claims today that Dems have to move to the center more to win.

Hooey on that.

Dems just need to deal with GOP control over most of the media and most of the voting machines.

[dolstein]

13. Here's a list of Congressional DLNew Democrats

This comes from the New Dem directory:

Senate New Democrat Coalition

Max Baucus, U.S. Senator, MT
Evan Bayh, U.S. Senator, IN
Maria Cantwell, U.S. Senator, WA
Tom Carper, U.S. Senator, DE
Hillary Clinton, U.S. Senator, NY
Kent Conrad, U.S. Senator, ND
Byron Dorgan, U.S. Senator, ND
Dianne Feinstein, U.S. Senator, CA
Tim Johnson, U.S. Senator, SD
John Kerry, U.S. Senator, MA
Herb Kohl, U.S. Senator, WI
Mary Landrieu, U.S. Senator, LA
Joe Lieberman, U.S. Senator, CT
Blanche Lincoln, U.S. Senator, AR
Bill Nelson, U.S. Senator, FL
Ben Nelson, U.S. Senator, NE
Mark Pryor, U.S. Senator, AR
Debbie Stabenow, U.S. Senator, MI

House New Democrat Coalition

Brian Baird, U.S. Representative, WA
Melissa Bean, United States Representative, IL
Shelley Berkley, U.S. Representative, NV
Lois Capps, U.S. Representative, CA
Russ Carnahan, U.S. Representative, MO
Ed Case, U.S. Representative, HI
Ben Chandler, U.S. Representative, KY
Joseph Crowley, U.S. Representative, NY
Jim Davis, U.S. Representative, FL
Susan Davis, U.S. Representative, CA
Artur Davis, U.S. Representative, AL
Rahm Emanuel, U.S. Representative, IL
Eliot Engel, U.S. Representative, NY
Bob Etheridge, U.S. Representative, NC
Harold Ford, Jr. , U.S. Representative, TN
Charlie Gonzalez, United States Representative, TX
Jane Harman, U.S. Representative, CA
Stephanie Herseth, U.S. Representative, SD
Brian Higgins, U.S. Representative, NY
Rush Holt, U.S. Representative, NJ
Darlene Hooley, U.S. Representative, OR
Jay Inslee, U.S. Representative, WA
Steve Israel, U.S. Representative, NY
Ron Kind, U.S. Representative, WI
Rick Larsen, U.S. Representative, WA
John Larson, U.S. Representative, CT
Carolyn McCarthy, U.S. Representative, NY
Mike McIntyre, U.S. Representative, NC
Gregory Meeks, U.S. Representative, NY
Charlie Melancon, United States Representative, LA
Juanita Millender-McDonald, U.S. Representative, CA
Dennis Moore, U.S. Representative, KS
Jim Moran, U.S. Representative, VA
David Price, U.S. Representative, NC
Loretta Sanchez, U.S. Representative, CA
Adam B. Schiff, U.S. Representative, CA
Allyson Schwartz, U.S. Representative, PA
David Scott, U.S. Representative, GA
Adam Smith, U.S. Representative, WA
Vic Snyder, United States Representative, AR
Ellen Tauscher, U.S. Representative, CA
Tom Udall, U.S. Representative, NM
David Wu, U.S. Representative, OR

http://www.dlc.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

17. I'll always vote for a DLCer if that's all that's left to me

You make it sound like the DLCis the Great Satan. Give us a break. There's a ton I don't like about the DLC, but the Democratic Party needs all the seats it can get. When the party holds the majority in Congress, the rest of the Democrats can actually get things done for the American people.

If you don't like the DLC, what you should do is support quality Dems in Blue States who could supplant the DINO incumbents in the primaries. The true-blue Dems you support would have to be politicians strong enough to have a good chance at defeating their Republican opponents. THEN you would have actually done something positive for America (and the party) rather than bash Democrats simply for the purpose of bashing Democrats.

[expatriot]

22. my thoughts exactly, man... well said.

it is easier for people to hold the DLC up as a whippingboy for all that's wrong with the Democratic Party and our collective butt-effing we have received from the Republicans as of late in national elections.... when the problem is much more complex and needs to be addressed.

I agree with you totally. If you want to change the party you take on DLCers in the primary but you do not call for Stalinesque or Maoist purges of them from the Party because they do not adhere to a particular political ideological test or political strategy.

Yes, I want a Democratic Party that has backbone and confronts BushCo at every turn and yes I think the DLC is a weak link in the party right now but to just think of them as the Great Evil in our party and how things would be better if we just "drove them out" of the party is naive at best.

[LoZoccolo]

19. You probably won't even bother looking up who they are.

I'm not too concerned.

[AJH032]

20. hard to see how Clinton was a true moderate...

considering he tried to socialize health care. Just because he compromised with a Republican congress on some things doesn't make him a Repub-lite.

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. Nearly 6 hours later and the original challenge has not been accepted

Sure, we got the usual DLC hot air and Clinton worship, but nobody has yet answered the challenge of the original poster.

I'm guessing in another 6 hours, it will be the same.

[expatriot]

23. show me their platform...

I am not a DLCer but your challenge was to find a DLCer who got elected by following the entire DLC platform... I just went to their site for the first time and I can't find a platform - they are not a party - they don't have a platform... they have a "key documents" section. What platform are you referring to?

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. My challenge?

I didn't start this thread, nor make the challenge. I just happen to believe it was a valid one. And a good opportunity to grab the popcorn and watch the From Scouts spin like draidels. :popcorn:

[expatriot]

28. oops.... my bad. just assumed and in the process

made an ass of myself AND uma thurman.

[expatriot]

24. How about DLC members who have gotten elected/re-elected?

Plenty of those. All those DLC Housemembers aren't first termers.


I am not a DLCer, I am a progressive who disagrees with the DLC on a lot of policy points and would love to see quite a few of them primaried out of a job (namely Lieberman) but going on a DLC witchhunt is an overly-simplistic and naive approach to taking back the party. the issues are much more complex than that... it is a question of strategy, of messaging, etc.

im going to bed. will respond tomorrow.

[woodleydem]

30. You haven't answered my question. Where is your two-term President, or

for that matter, please name me just ONE liberal who represents a solidly red state? And oh by the way, Mark Pryor, Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu, Tom Vilsack, Mark Warner, Bill Richardson, Hillary Clinton, Evan Bayh--and some of those aren't Senators on the federal level, but governors have more power than senators. And 'Clinton worship' is quite justified, seeing as how he was a TWO-TERM DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT!!!! I've come to the conclusion that many of the self-described 'liberals' around here are actually Republicans who are trying to destroy the party. Why else would people on a 'Democratic' forum spend so much time bashing Bill Clinton and other Democrats?

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. Why would DLC'ers spend so much time VOTING with Repukes??

I have FUCKING HAD IT with these DLC operatives calling me a "Republican". Get your pathetic Bush loving ass to Iraq if you want to defend it as such a damn great idea, like Hillary, Bayh, and Hair Plug do.

[woodleydem]

32. "DLC operatives?" No, just a regular Democrat here who refuses to wear

a tinfoil hat. Sue me, but I do believe that terrorism is a real issue that this country must deal with in the new century. I am also a Democrat that believes that giving tax breaks to the rich is idiotic, ignoring the environment in favor of polluters is ludicrous, and being agressive against terrorism is goddam common sense. Oh, and fiscal discipline (including giving states more control over their Medicare payrolls) is a key cog in getting our economy running on a high level (like Clinton did under the direction of Robert Rubin). But the question remains: Is there even ONE liberal senator or governor elected in a solidly red state?

[CWebster]

35. So, how do we fight terrorism? nt