Feedback please, re: Abortion stance

[Nickster]

Folks, I humbly ask for some feedback on this subject. Myself, I feel that it's up to a woman to choose and she will deal with whatever moral and ethical dilemas along with the advice of her physician, and her support group. That's a quick and dirty sum up of what I think.

Ok here's the question. I'm discussing a possible campaign with a local independent candidate who is looking to run against a "Bush Democrat". He says he is against abortion. BUT he is very much into supporting women's rights by providing other support, such as income credits, adoption services/counseling, healthcare, etc. So I'm torn, I'm thinking of possible circumstances, such as rape, incest, his views would mean that he'd want the victim to carry the child full term. We haven't discussed stem cells yet, so I don't know his stance there. He said he'd never stand on the same podium as Senator Man on Dog.

His stances are much more liberal than the current Bush Democrat we have. We are also in a pretty conservative district.

I'm seriously torn here, he'd be a step in the right direction, but do I support him or hold out for the perfect candidate who may not appear? We aren't a bastion of progressive politicians around here. Help?

My other option is to figure out what it will take to get my name on the ballot myself. I was hoping this independent candidate would be a good fit, since he has the political experience that I don't. I wouldn't stand a chance of winning, but I'd put my name on the ballot as at least a protest vote. Thoughts?

[Extend a Hand]

1. If a womam does not have the right

to determine what happens to her own body, she has no rights.

I think it is dangerous to accept any democratic candidate that will not fight to uphold this fundamental right.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I see nothing in his stance that supports 'women's rights by providing

other support". I would have more sympathy for him if he promoted birth control and education...we need to eliminate the need for abortions. His plan is also taking the decision making out of the individual woman's control. Saying to a pregnant rape victim, "Here's money to cover your pregnancy and a nice couple to adopt the baby" ain't it!

[rocktivity]

8. DING DING DING! Sinkingfeeling, you're our grand prize winner!

I would have more sympathy for him if he promoted birth control and education...we need to eliminate the need for abortions...
"He says he is against abortion. BUT he is very much into supporting women's rights by providing other support"? That's useful if you WANT to have the baby but don't have the resources. But since when is it woman's "right" to be forced to have a baby?

:shrug:
rocknation

[formerrepuke]

3. The candidate doesn't have to like it; in fact, nobody does.. but until

he grows a uterus he should leave the decision making to the indidual.. and he ought to keep in mind that making the practice illegal won't stop it from happening; it'll just make it expensive and/or more dangerous.

[Nickster]

4. Thanks for the responses so far

I have to say I'm right with you folks. You're helping me to crystallize some of my feelings and I appreciate it.

[seabeyond]

5. i dont know who you support, but this anti abortion person

is at least looking at the repercussions of what outlawing abortion would cause and the tax payer responsibility. that is further than i have ever heard an anti abortion person go. so i find that interesting

[Nickster]

7. Well, that's what is causing me some internal conflict here.

I haven't had a chance to give him a good grilling on the subject, I will try later this evening if possible. He's against abortion, but I haven't got a good sense if he's going to legislate his belief or not. He's also very anti-war.

[seabeyond]

9. people have to understand the repercussion of outlawing abortion

there will be different realities. so often people will demand, and then refuse to htink of a game plan. kinda like bush in everything and the war. there will be young people dieing. cannot have it for rape and not other. that is legistation morality. if illegal, is illegal for all. including that mom with her 4th child on the way.

she dies. and those other 3 children lose a mother

if you are taking a position, this is the responsibility in this decision.

i cant get anti abortionist to own the problem they will create

that is an important part of the argument we dont talk often

[Booster]

19. Also, to me the reality of abortions is also EVERYONE the woman

confides in about the pregnancy, whether it be her mother/father, siblings, and of course the boyfriend, should be arrested for aiding and abetting if they don't turn her in to the cops. If they would just talk about this I think most people would see how absurd making abortion illegal would be. I have to say tho, for underaged girls, I do think the parents should be notified and I'm not sure what I think should happen if they aren't.

[rocktivity]

6. If your candidate is against abortion, he shouldn't have one

More important, he would be exercising the FREEDOM to choose not to have one. He was able made up his mind without interference from the law; shouldn't every other America have the freedom to do the same?

:headbang:
rocknation

[DemBones DemBones]

10. That's such a simplistic response.

War supporters could say "Against the war? Don't participate" but that would hardly satisfy our objections to the war.

Abortion, like war, has ramifications and societal impact far beyond the people who actually participate in the practice. It's not just a personal decision, though every abortion of course involves a personal decision.

Our country is missing a third of the last two generations, a third of them having been aborted. (A generation is, I believe, generally considered to be all those born within a 25 year period. Perhaps it's 20? In any case, abortion is now impacting a second generation.)

[prolesunited]

12. Statistically, carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth

is more dangerous to a woman than abortion. So, by your same logic, how many more woman would be dead as a result of pregnancy. Do the unborn have more rights than women?

And if you think outlawing abortion would stop abortions, you need to review history. Women have been terminating their pregnancies for centuries -- often with deadly consequences. Legalizing abortions just make it safe -- for everyone. Rich people will always have access to safe abortions, either in another country or by paying an exclusive doctor. It's the poor, as always, that will suffer.

[ieoeja]

13. So it is a woman's duty to produce offspring for our society?

I can not even think of a civil response to that sort of thinking.

[rocktivity]

15. That doesn't make it a BAD response.

Maybe this issue HAS been made more complicated than it needs to be.

As Sinkingfeeling suggested in post #2, the candidate's "support" of unwanted preganancies means nothing if it doesn't include measures to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. But if we did that, and one third of our next two generations never even get conceived, would you consider THAT a more preferable outcome?

:headbang:
rocknation

[colinmom71]

11. I'd ask him directly if he would support legislation that would...

attempt to ban abortion either within Roe v. Wade's Constitutional limitations (and including following case law like Casey) or beyond them. Beyond the Court's currently stated limits would mean trying to proscribe abortion pre-viability, for health reasons, or even within the first trimester. He may however only be willing to go as far as current laws, such as the so-called "partial birth abortion" ban and abortions performed before the fetus is medically viable.

I suppose the most critical questions that need to be addressed are whether he respects the authority of the Court as having defined what constitutes an unconstitutional burden against a woman's right to make medical choices in regards to her pregnancy (and this includes the decision to terminate). Does he believe that the government should be in the role of micro-managing which medical choices are appropriate for individual women? Because that what anti-choice laws do.

One does not have to be either exclusively pro-life or pro-choice. We can respect the distinction between not making abortion illegal despite our personal moral qualms, while at the same time working to make abortions as rare as is possible (in the manner you mentioned above - promoting better health care, access to reliable birth control, social services to aid single moms, etc.). Abortion is not always the best choice for many women facing an unplanned pregnancy, and it is our duty to make sure women are empowered to make the choice that is best for themselves and their families...

If this potential candidate is able to see this distinction and adopt it into his platform, I would be willing to aid his run for office, especially considering that you've said he's more progressive and liberal than the opposition. As for how to seem appealing in a more conservative district, I'd say to keep the position directed towards the basic sense of mistrust in the state... The question should always be "do YOU want government bureaucrats deciding your/your wife's/your daughter's/your sister's medical care?".


Edited to add - For a reminder on how destructive and anti-woman the pre-Roe days were, listen to the audio recording of the documentary "From the Back Alleys and Beyond". http://www.albany.edu/history/FromTheBackAlleys.html

[dsc]

14. You leave too much out to give an intelligent opinion

1) What is the Bush Democrat's opinion of abortion?

2) You don't state with any specificity what support he is willing to offer women. Thus does he or doesn't he support birth control and realist sex ed?

3) What office is he running for and to what extent are his abortion views relevent to that office?

4) Is he running in a primary against this person?

5) Would your protest candidacy be in a primary?

6) What are his chances of winning?

Without answers to those I can't really intelligently respond.

[Nickster]

18. These were very preliminary discussions, prompted by my being fed

up with yet another pro-Bush vote by my Congresswoman. I decided I was fed up enough to consider putting my name on the ballot since I've not yet seen an opposition candidate come forth from the Dem side of the aisle. I've seen at least 5-6 Repubes come out and state they are candidates.

While thinking about all this, I decided to see if there were any Greens or Indies in the area who had run before or were interested. I found out we had an Indie who ran against our Congresswoman in 04. I didn't know much about him, since I was drinking this congresswoman's kool-aid. I sent an email to him and ask what his plans were for 06 and told him why I was seeking him out, etc etc. We sent a few emails back and forth and he had some great OpEds that he shared with me and some other assorted articles that were of interest to me. I told him that I'd be interested in working with him in 06 if he decided to come out. He sent me an email, and I have to say I appreciate him being upfront about it, and asked if I'd support him even if he was pro-life, etc etc. He laid out some of his position, but not enough to really know how far he is going to go or not go. So I wanted some feedback about it from this community before I formulated a response and engaged him in more conversation about this subject.

*He would be running for a House of Rep seat in the US Congress.

*If he comes out, he would be running in the Dem primary against the incumbent Dem Rep.

*If it comes down to me running, I would be running in the primary as well.

*Honestly, I don't know what his chances are of winning. I'm fairly certain that my current rep will be defeated, the Repukes want her out and what few progressives are here, have started jumping ship. That doesn't leave much else to win on, at least in my book.

*I don't know what the current Rep's ideas on abortion are, she doesn't have anything listed on either of her web sites that would tune me in to what that is.

[dsc]

20. This cycle only

I would do anything and everything to keep the seat Democratic that I could. If we win the House, even if some of the Dems are very conservative, we can have lots of partisan investigations of Bush. After that, I probably would choose between the two Dems on a holistic basis. I don't know how you rank issues, the choice would be very easy for me but I am on the other side of the abortion issue than you are.

[Sapphire Blue]

16. Have you asked him directly whether his personal views against abortion

... would mean that he would take legal steps to limit or prevent a woman's right to choose, or whether he would join in the effort to outlaw abortion? Or is his goal to make abortion 'safe, legal, and rare? Providing support services for women who choose to continue a pregnancy is commendable. Forced pregnancy is unjust.

Is he willing to take on the Bush Administration's cuts in social programs... programs that provide continued support for women who might choose to give birth, and continued support for their children? Does he support universal health care, maternity leave, subsidized daycare, subsidized housing, Early Start, Head Start, fully funded public education for all children, etc.?

If elected, how likely is he to follow through on any of his campaign promises? Who is funding this candidate, and what allegiances does he have?

And what will it take for you to you to get your name on the ballot?

[Lars39]

17. If he's going to run on being against abortion, his base would

expect results in line with their agenda.
I would consider him a stealth candidate and would not vote for or support him.