have you seen new dem ad against santorum

[dajoki]

got this in email from DSCC http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/video/20050725__dscc_weird.wmv

[unhappycamper]

1. Nice video of Tricky Rick.

Nominated & :kick:ed

http://spreadingsantorum.com/

[Stil]

2. I like it!

:toast:

[welshTerrier2]

3. how about this: our anti-choice candidate is way better than yours ...

[dajoki]

6. well, he is

casey's not perfect, but a hell of alot better than pricky boy. at least he will try to help average american families.

[welshTerrier2]

9. take a swing at this ...

i understand how horrible santorum is ... he's hideous ... and i understand Casey is a candidate with a very good chance of winning ... but he is totally unacceptable to me because of his barbaric, and they are barbaric, views on choice ...

take your best shot at the following:

let's say that i have the view that anyone who would force a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is enforcing slavery ... i see it as an outrageous imposition by one person, or one government, on the rights of another human being ...

what arguments are then made to defend Casey's candidacy? well, i hear "santorum is every bit as bad on the choice issue so what's the difference" or "we can't choose our candidates on a single "litmus" test" or "we have to get back in power and then we can try to fight for the choice issue" ... things like that ... do you want to add other arguments to support Casey? i tried to list the ones i've seen on DU ...

so, here's the analogy ... let's say a pro-slavery candidate wanted to run against someone like DeLay and the Democratic Party believed he had a good chance of winning ... let's say this pro-slavery candidate was solid on many other issues: education, social security, Iraq, etc ...

would this be OK with you?

the problem i have with Casey's candidacy, and i'm totally disgusted Dean, Rendell and the Party are pushing his candidacy, is that there have to be certain standards and values beyond which we are unwilling to compromise even to win ... Casey's views on the choice issue are every bit as extreme as the most ardent anti-choice right-wing Christians ...

i say Casey's position is barbaric because he does not even allow an abortion in the case of rape or incest ... imagine a young teenage girl raped by her own father ... she tries to abort her pregnancy herself and is unsuccessful ... she winds up in the hospital and tries again ... she is placed into some kind of restrictive custody for her own safety and because she violated "Casey's law" ... she is physically restrained until she gives birth against her will ... is this barbaric to you? it is to me ... really, i see it as sick ...

for me, it is truly tragic that the Democratic Party could endorse any person who advocates this type of abusive restriction on human rights ...

that's why i think as i do ... what are your thoughts ???

[dsc]

10. You have zero and I mean zero

right to complain about Nader voters then. I have no idea if you have or do complain about them, but if you are willing on just one issue, to see Santorum reelected, then you have no business at all complaining about Nader voters.

[welshTerrier2]

11. wish you had responded to the details of my post ...

as for Nader voters, i do NOT complain about them ...

btw, let me state again that i do think voters should have some degree of flexibility on issues ... i think we have to balance "perfect" with "good enough" ...

but on issues that go to the heart of human enslavement, there should be very little room for compromise ... Casey's barbaric views on forcing a young girl raped by her father to carry a pregnancy to term are extreme; they are purist; they fail to understand the cause of human liberation that should be a mandatory minimum standard for anyone running for office in the Democratic Party ... even if they have a chance to "win" ...

[dsc]

17. You are basicly saying my issues trump yours

You may use highfaluting language to do so, but that is in a nutshell what you say. Nader voters would come back with the idea that corporations are enslaving everyone and that anyone who votes for a corporate Democrat is voting for slavery too. If you wish to vote on a single issue and not take on others for doing so, then while I strongly disagree I won't take you to task for hypocrisy. But there isn't any pricipled difference between what you are doing here and what they did in 2000. I also think you should ask yourself the following honest question. Why should pro life people who support labor unions vote for your favored candidates if you won't vote for theirs?

[dajoki]

12. i wish...

he was pro choice also, and i am completely sympathetic to your views. i consider myself very liberal and would never ask anyone to compromise their principles to support any candidate. i did not ask you to do that. my point is casey has liberal views on labor, healthcare, wages, poverty, taxes, etc. and i do believe he is the only candidate that can beat santorum. and santorum must be defeated. that's the way i feel and i totally respect the way you feel:hi: http://www.bobcaseyforpa.com

[welshTerrier2]

15. thanks, dajoki ...

i appreciate your comments very much ...

imagine this scenario ... the Democratic Party realizes that the abortion issue has been killing us electorally ... they reason that while we fight for this one issue, we end up losing most of the South ... we end up losing religious voters ... and we've become the minority party ...

i wouldn't make a case that abortion is the only reason this has occurred but there's no question it's hurt the Party politically ... so, the Party's political strategists have a change of heart ... they argue that we can no longer support this single issue at the cost of so many other important things we believe in ...

they proclaim that from now on, Casey's views will be the official view of the Democratic Party on the choice issue ... let's even go further and say they're right and the Party starts making huge political gains ...

is this OK with you ??

[dajoki]

16. no, but...

i very highly doubt that coud ever happen. i think casey was picked, not because he is anti-choice, but because of name recognition, he has won numerous statewide elections with overwhelming numbers. and i don't THINK he can or will mess with Roe. i have a wife and two grown daughters so i AM very concerned about women's issues. i just read that they are trying to mess with title IX.(sorry no link) this greatly disturbs me as one of my daughters went through college on a track scolorship. my daughter is finished with school, but what about other little girls who aspire to be college athletes? :pals:

[dsc]

18. that is totally absurd

Pro choice voters have been pandered to by our party in ways that much more loyal voters haven't. There is literally no evidence at all that our party is thinking about, much less actuating a change in our abortion policy. Cripe Kucinich had to flip flop to run a vanity Presidential campaign.

[dajoki]

19. come on now...

let's not get nasty. being a liberal means being open to all thoughts. i agree with you that it will never happen, i posted it above. you could just be a little more tactful. we all basically want the same thing.:hi:

[dsc]

27. I am not sure if you are addressing me or not

and admittedly maybe the word pander is over the top, but compare the treatment of blacks who voted for Clinton at about a 9 to 1 split vs that of pro choicers who voted for Clinton at about a 2 to 1 split. I think any reasonable person would say Clinton dissed blacks way more than he did pro choicers.

[dajoki]

29. i just don't know why...

our party must be so divided, we will never win that way. nobody is going to be satisfied all the time. we must unite the party through compromise, we cannot pander to any single group, or complain if someone gets more than the other.:shrug:

[dsc]

31. I don't vote single issue on any issue

nor do I usually complain about who gets more than whom. But I do get very tired of pro choicers incessent complaining when our party supports one, single, lone Senate candidate who happens to be pro life. I have voted for way, way, way, way more pro choice candidates than I have pro gay ones. I can literally count on one hand the number of pro life candidates for whom I voted and I lived in MS for an election cycle. I think it would be helpful if some on the pro choice side at least admit that they have to compromise vastly less often than members of some of our most loyal constitencies are asked to. Instead they threaten to let Santorum win reelection. Imagine if say economic liberals behaved this way.

[dajoki]

33. neither do i...

but i am pro choice but that is not my only voting issue. i live in pa and am definately voting for casey. one of the easiest choices i'll ever make. but i do think pro choicers are a large dem constituancy. casey is a good candidate for pa, because we are not as blue of a state as you might think. two repub senators, 12-7 repub congress, state legislature controlled by repubs. at least a dem governor. casey is a very well known name in pa politics, he is probably the only one that can beat santorum. but we have to be united to pull it off.

[dsc]

34. I definitely agree

both with the need for Santorum to go and the fact Casey is our best shot by miles. I do fear for the unity part. We have gone down this road once before with another pro life candidate in 2000. Kirk was no Casey but still Casey will need every vote he can get.

I do think Republicans are way over represented in your state assembly and Congress due to gerrymandered districts but your point about PA not being reliably blue is well taken.

[dajoki]

35. when you said kirk...

did you mean klink? that was in 2000, little ricky's LAST victory. he lost by 5% if i remember correctly. the problem there was the party didn't put enough money into his race or back him wholeheartedly. klink made an issue of it after the election, but nothing came of it.

[dsc]

36. Yes sorry memory and all that

but Klink wasn't backed due to his views on abortion, guns, and gay rights (though he had changed those a little before getting the nod). It was stupid not to back him.

[dajoki]

37. i agree

he did very well considering the lack of support by the party. hey, my memory ain't so good any more either. LOL:toast:

[welshTerrier2]

20. pathetic arguments ..

we are not talking about pandering here ... we are talking about the state's right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term even in the case of rape or incest ... i see that as a form of human enslavement; apparently you don't ...

and as to your ridiculous statement that "There is literally no evidence at all that our party is thinking about, much less actuating a change in our abortion policy.", that wasn't my point at all ... i made no such claim ...

my post merely took the "we have to win even if Casey is anti-choice" argument and asked whether if would be acceptable to those advocating this thinking if the exact same thinking were applied party-wide ... you've made an argument against something that was never alleged in the first place ...

[dajoki]

21. i'm trying hard...

to be a peacemaker here. i truly believe the democratic party is THE big tent party. there is room for all views. like i said in my last response to you i am greatly concerned about women's issues, not only 'cause of my wife and daughters, but all women. but we can't win if we are divided, we must unite to have any chance. we can argue amongst ourselves(which is how ideas come about), but in the end we must try to find common ground.:shrug:

[welshTerrier2]

22. appreciate that ...

many of us are very concerned about a Party that seems hell bent on moving many of our agendas further and further to the right ...

ultimately, unity must be achieved if we are going to win ... but unity must be earned by improved communication, a more democratic Democratic Party and shared power ...

if those currently setting the direction push right without approval, the ensuing rebellion will tear the Party apart ... and that is exactly what i'm afraid we are seeing ... power not shared will be fought for ...

time is growing short for 2006 if unity is a goal ... i see no signs at all of a new openness from the top ...

[dajoki]

23. that i agree with...

i am seriously worried about our party. in my lifetime i never saw it in worse shape. what are the answers? i don't know, above my pay grade. i do know that our leaders better get together and have a serious discussion about the future of the dem party. right now i am very disappointed with the entire situation, but i'm willing to give dean a chance. but he better get on the ball, 'cause like you i agree time is short.:shrug:

[dsc]

26. My uncle used to be a barber I'll see if I can find you some more hairs

to split. The fact is that pro choicers vote with us about 2/3 of the time and in return get nearly everything they wish. Even things that are very unpopular like vetoes of 'partial birth' abortion bills. Yet blacks who vote with us 90% of the time saw high profile people like Guineer and Elders thrown to the wolves while Sister Soljah was called out by Governor Clinton. By any reasonable measure, no matter the merits of the issues involved, pro choicers have gotten far and away more bang for the vote than just about any other group.

[tedoll78]

30. hmm..

Casey's vote might be the one vote that gets us the majority, and thus control of the Senate. Casey's vote might be the one vote that gives us the ability to stop ALL of Bush's anti-choice court nominees.

I'll take the anti-choice Democrat over the anti-choice Rethug, thank you very much.

[dajoki]

39. i wish all of...

you outta staters could move to pa next year around september for awhile, register and vote. we could use all the help we can get.:rofl:

[Greeby]

4. ........................

That 13th cenutry bit always cracks me up :rofl:

[dajoki]

5. the funny thing is...

it's the truth. although i personally think little pricky is from another planet.:dunce:

[McCamy Taylor]

7. No wonder he was on the Daily Show. He must be worried about 2006.

[SharonAnn]

14. He's got a book to sell. That's why he's been showing up on TV shows.

[TheFarseer]

8. That's powerful

if they can't beat him with this especially in a blue state, with a pretty good candidate then I give up.

[dajoki]

13. spread it around...

to everyone you know.:kick:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. He's even on BookTV Sunday...

I won't be able to watch it :puke:


After Words
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sunday, July 31 at 6:00 pm and at 9:00 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) interviewed by Kirk Victor

This week on After Words Sen. Rick Santorum explains his belief that the values of conservatism creates an appreciation for the civic bonds that unite communities. He elabortes on other ways social conservatism can influence public policy in his new book, "It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good." He also argues that strengthening family ties in American society should take a higher priority over the "village" of the federal government promoted in a previous book by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

more... if you can stand it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4217869&mesg_id=4225197

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Well, it seems some DUers actually like him. I kid you not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=275&topic_id=4064&mesg_id=4073

[dsc]

28. It is absurd to call that an endorsement or liking someone

While I disagree with much of what that poster said in regards to the wisdom of taking the fetus home and the honesty of Santorum's convictions (given his gay spokesman) I would hardly call that post an endorsement let alone a ringing one.

[Robeson]

32. Thanks for posting. I'll pass it around....

...:thumbsup:

[MH1]

38. Woo-Hoo!! Nice ad!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

I saw the original editorial that said "one of the finest minds of the 13th century." I've passed that along to a couple friends who got a good laugh out of it. It's nice that DSCC picked up on it too.

[dajoki]

40. kick

spread it around:kick:

[dajoki]

41. send to everyone you know

good ad