Al Franken --- American Enterprise Institute/

[JDPriestly]

What is this? Why interview Hitchens and this guy from the American Enterprise Institute on the same day? That's two right-wingers in one morning. That's two right-wingers too much for me. No! No! No! Al Franken. Those guys get enough coverage in the right-wing MSM. We don't listen to AAR to hear their blather. Besides, there are too many Democrats who don't have a forum.

[BlueWolff]

1. Lets all call and complain to AAR

You are right on about this HIDEOUS Al Franken show.

[madfloridian]

2. Agreed. I just stream Thom Hartmann now.

AAR left Sirius, and I can't Thom except for one hour, so I just stream it. Then I switch to streaming Randi.

[The Night Owl]

3. Hitchens is a right winger?

Hitchens was wrong to have supported the Iraq invasion and occupation, but that doesn't make him a right winger.

[madfloridian]

4. Ok, then, does this make him one?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens

"One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight."

[ProudDad]

7. Hitchen's is the "lover spurned"

I think he's basically jealous of anyone on the left who gets more attention than he does.

I've followed Hitchens for decades. He's always been sort of "contrarian" and now he's making a career of it.

My basic problem with Hitchens is that he's not funny anymore.


(title edited to eliminate unintentional sexism).

[ChiciB1]

21. What You're Saying Here Is Absolutely Correct...

I remember seeing him on C-Span quite a few times in the late 80's and 90's and I always looked forward to seeing him because he seemed like a "leftie"! David Corn was on a lot then too and the both of them always peaked my interest. Didn't he write for the Nation too???

He started getting VERY WEIRD about the time Bill Clinton got elected. I think he hates him! I also recall him talking about his son and how they were both SOCIALISTS, but perhaps all his boozing and drinking has clouded his vision these many years.

I don't even give him a second glance these days because he's so.... WELL WEIRD!!

Glad to see this post because I try to watch Franken on Sundance every night. So I'll skip this one tonight!

[JDPriestly]

He's definitely right-wing.

Otherwise he would not distance himself from the "left-wing." I think he is jealous of Clinton and others who are more popular and have more clout with liberals.

[ProudDad]

24. That doesn't follow

I think that he thinks of himself as a "pure leftist", unsullied by any taint from anyone else's opinions.

In other words, a leftist curmudgeon.

[ProudDad]

5. I heard these

Ornstein is an old friend of Franken's who happens to be an old-fashioned "conservative" who (from the times I've heard him on the program) has no great love for the neo-cons.

Hitchins is a curmudgeonly character who Al enjoys sparring with.

Both interviews were interesting, entertaining, funny and informative.

Kudos to Al for continuing to book them...

[madfloridian]

6. Curmudgeonly?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

"One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight."

[ProudDad]

10. That was before Air America took off

That article was written when Hitchens was obviously green with envy over Moore's movie's success...

Ed Shultz is the left's Rush Limbaugh -- he even sounds like the rush-monster.

Shultz is a little to right-wing for me but he's fun to listen to...

He's got the right slant on the class war though.

Go Ed!!!

I don't like everything Hitchens writes (actually, very little of it) but like the anti-choice pro-1st amendment Nat Hentoff sometimes there's a kernal of information -- sometimes they say something we should hear.

I must agree (with Hitchens) that most of the people on the left I've known (especially in Berkeley, CA) have been too solemn, mirthless, dull, monochoromic, righteous and boring. And most of them are so paralyzed by over-analysis they can't DO anything. At least, they could leave flyers under the windshields of the cars parked at the UU churches in town on the weekend before the elections :)

[madfloridian]

13. "solemn, mirthless, dull, monochoromic, righteous and boring."

Your description of people on the left sounds a little ugly to me.

"I must agree (with Hitchens) that most of the people on the left I've known (especially in Berkeley, CA) have been too solemn, mirthless, dull, monochoromic, righteous and boring. And most of them are so paralyzed by over-analysis they can't DO anything. At least, they could leave flyers under the windshields of the cars parked at the UU churches in town on the weekend before the elections."

That is just over the line, I think.

[ProudDad]

25. It's true

I've been involved with most of the political struggles in Berkeley, CA over the last 15 years. I even had a program on Free Radio Berkeley until the Federal Court shut us down.

I probably shouldn't have said "most of the people on the left". Upon further reflection, it's only about 20 or 30% of the far-lefties I've worked with that fit that desciption.

To the other 70%, I offer my apology.

(over what line?)

[glarius]

8. Hitchens is a DRUNK who spews mostly venom!

I saw him on CBC in Canada about a year ago, doing an interview, bleary red eyes, glass of liquor in hand and being anything but curmudgeonly!...I don't think I've ever seen him that he hasn't said hateful things!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

29. and he looks like he has a distinct odor as well.

He clothes are always crumpled like he'd slept in them and he doesn't look very clean. Listening to him on Franken today, I could almost smell him. Yuck.

[madfloridian]

9. And his Front Page interview disowning the "left" is not curmudgeonly.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11241

"As to the “Left” I’ll say briefly why this was the finish for me. Here is American society, attacked under open skies in broad daylight by the most reactionary and vicious force in the contemporary world, a force which treats Afghans and Algerians and Egyptians far worse than it has yet been able to treat us. The vaunted CIA and FBI are asleep, at best. The working-class heroes move, without orders and at risk to their lives, to fill the moral and political vacuum. The moral idiots, meanwhile, like Falwell and Robertson and Rabbi Lapin, announce that this clerical aggression is a punishment for our secularism. And the governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, hitherto considered allies on our “national security” calculus, prove to be the most friendly to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.


Here was a time for the Left to demand a top-to-bottom house-cleaning of the state and of our covert alliances, a full inquiry into the origins of the defeat, and a resolute declaration in favor of a fight to the end for secular and humanist values: a fight which would make friends of the democratic and secular forces in the Muslim world. And instead, the near-majority of “Left” intellectuals started sounding like Falwell, and bleating that the main problem was Bush’s legitimacy. So I don’t even muster a hollow laugh when this pathetic faction says that I, and not they, are in bed with the forces of reaction."

And Bush lied. And Hitchens goes after the left.

[ProudDad]

15. I can't see anything here to disagree with

If the definition of the "left" is the democrats in congress and their hangers-on, I concur with Hitchens' opinions here.

They are all still tainted by their crime of creating the permanent war economy for the U.S. just after WWII. These were the "best and brightest" of the New Deal who did this, not the repuke right-wing. This current bunch of fascists are just taking advantage of the environment created by the cold warriors of the FDR administration -- a bunch of "democrats".

There should be NO business done (outside of the U.N. and diplomatic channels) with any nation that has a repressive or destructive regime -- that includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel, North Korea, China, Pakistan, Myan-Mar, Indonesia, etc., etc.

I too would demand a top to bottom house cleaning of the FBI, CIA, and especially the Dept. of State - in support of a "fight to the end for secular and humanist values".

Read the article, don't just react to the messenger.

[JDPriestly]

26. Apparently Hitchens mistakes the DLC for the left.

He's wrong. He supports the Iraq war and, on Franken's show, went on and on about evidence that Hussein had a centrifuge and was trying to buy nuclear weapons from the N. Koreans. I think he has fallen for the right-wing lies and is not really thinking critically. What a muddled fool.

[JDPriestly]

23. a chacun son gout.

I respect your right to your opinion, but I still don't like these guys. There are lots of other venues for them. I want to hear liberal talk on liberal radio. If there were a shortage of conservative venues, I might feel different.

[pretzel4gore]

11. email email email....

Al's always been a little too easy going; he likes people and sloughs off their windbag opinions....hitchens is a bushpig, and giving him a forum so annoyed i, me muted the show and sent AAR a wemail....please do likewise, it only take a moment!
don't get angry at al...he's just a good hearted guy who doesn't hate the enemy as much as many of us do...same with ed shultz...he hates them in a different way. we should interact with them to head off the rw trend (geez, does filet mignon and finest wines have that much sedative effect?) that seems inherent in the good life

[biscotti]

12. I was also surprised

that Franken had Hitchens of all people on. I do not understand debating with insipid no-it-all ramble mouths.

[ProudDad]

16. Did you hear it?

[Beer Snob-50]

14. One of the great things about the left having it's own radio

network now is that we allow all viewpoints on a show. I would love to see rush or hannity have a leftie on, they could eat both of those blowholes for lunch.

I don't listen to talk radio for just people who I agree with, I like a good mix of views.

[ProudDad]

17. HEAR, HEAR!!

Actully, I enjoyed the Norm Ornstein interview more.

[JDPriestly]

27. When Rush and Hannity have liberals on,

then Air America Radio should reciprocate and have conservatives on.

I have plenty of opportunities to hear the conservative point of view. I listen to Air America Radio for nurture and support as a liberal, not for "fair and balanced" coverage. Being too "nice" got us into this mess. We liberals need to go on the offense and shout our values to the world. The time for being "nice" is long gone. Martin Luther King and Ghandi were non-violent, but they weren't "nice." We need to follow in their footsteps -- non-violent but in-your-face about truth and justice.

[Beer Snob-50]

28. I am not talking fair and balanced

I am talking that we are intelligent enough to hear the blather from the other side and not be threatened by it. We can hear from the horses ass what the other side thinks and realize that they are morons while the right just lies about our point of view.

[JDPriestly]

30. I don't feel threatened. I just want to hear liberal voices

because I don't hear them anywhere else.

[madfloridian]

32. If I want to hear the far right, I could turn on their shows.

I want to hear honesty and truth. I hate hearing all the folks who detest us.

[xxqqqzme]

18. I have sent this exact complaint at least

three times 2 AAR. I'm sick of listening 2 limpballs and o'lielly on AAR. If I wanted 2 listen 2 them, I'd know where 2 tune. Franken is consumed w/ being fair and he needs 2 give it up.

[ProudDad]

19. PS: Hitchens suffers from a disease

of the far-left and far-right. He sees the world as a binary proposition. You either agree 100% with every position or opinion he holds or you are an idiot.

That's why I've tired of Hitchens although I may pay more attention in the future since the Hitchens articles posted here do make some good points.

I don't want to only hear from voices that I 100% (or even 80%) agree with. I can't test my own opinions and frame of reference if I do.

[madfloridian]

20. Your own definition of the left which I put in a subject line above....

is about all I need to know.

You have a right to your beliefs, but when you are insulting so many it is wrong.

[ProudDad]

22. I insulted no-one

I merely recited the facts. The permanent war economy was a Roosevelt/Truman administration idea. I hated that idea.

Nearly all of the dems in congress are tools of the capitalist system that is killing us all -- economically, emotionally and with their ally, pollution, physically.

How is it an insult to tell the truth?

[madfloridian]

31. "solemn, mirthless, dull, monochoromic, righteous and boring."

No, no insults there...shall we look under that table over there? Nope, no insults there either.

Gee, guess I was mistaken. Trouble is, you are describing the DLC types when you say this;
"Nearly all of the dems in congress are tools of the capitalist system that is killing us all -- economically, emotionally and with their ally, pollution, physically."

And you describe the "left" thusly:
"solemn, mirthless, dull, monochoromic, righteous and boring."

So, gee, what you say to us moderates? And what do you want us to be?

[ProudDad]

33. Correct. No insults

just facts.

The capitalist system is killing us.

Most of the dems and all of the republicans IN THE CONGRESS are "true believers" in the capitalist system (and most of them huge beneficiaries of same).

If you'll check my posts you'll find that the "left" that I was talking about was the 30% of the hard-core lefties I've dealt with in Berkeley, CA during my rather full activist career there.

I can understand thin skins after lousy news like bolton to the U.N. but please read my posts thouroughly before blowing up over them, ok?

:)