Voting: Customer Receipts?

[Fire Walk With Me]

I get a receipt when I pay $0.37 at the post office. I get a receipt when I buy shampoo. I get a copy of my major transactions as well. Rent, insurance, etc. When I vote, I get a...sticker. Saying I voted, and not for who, and it's not valid for a recount.

I want a receipt stating who I voted for, whenever I vote. One that can be used to do recounts as has been proven necessary. None of this "it's in some truck going to unknown destinations and the chads were hanging anyway and the Supreme Court doesn't care who you voted for" crap.

These people have taken a once-trustworthy system and caused it to be in need of the eternal vigilance spoken of by the ForeFathers. I want a receipt.

Other places you don't get a receipt: prostitutes and drug dealers. Hmm.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. A receipt isn't enough. You've heard of Halliburton overbilling, right?

Paper trails are only as worthwhile as the voting system they are tracking. We need transparency throughout the entire process. We need auditable machines. There should be NO "corporate secrets" when it come to the inner workings of the government.

http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Indeed. Defining the problem allows for resolution.

As is so obviously needed :-/

[Fescue4u]

3. The idea is good, but bear in mind

A receipt generally does 2 things.

1) Gives you recourse if the transaction later turns out to be fault (i.e. the item is defective, or you didnt get the money from the atm etc)

2) Allows you to account to someone that transaction (i.e. the IRS)

In the case of voting, you'll #1 is meaningless as the receipt doesnt prove that your vote was counted unless you get together with everyone who voted in that precint and do your own recount.

In the case of #2, this is actually bad as it allows for vote selling.

I don't oppose receipts per se, but this analogy really doesnt hold up in a true anonymous voting system.

[corkhead]

7. back in my Burger King days,

we had double copy reciepts; one was handed to the customer, and the other copy was rolled up on a continuous roll. This made for an audit trail that was undeniable.

Your point about vote selling is a good point I hadn't thought of before.

Maybe we can use it.

I'm kidding...

:yoiks:

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. A verifiable single item per precinct would certainly help.

There are stages in the process, each of which can be a vector for malfeasance or a step in the right direction.

Voter anonymity? That might not work anymore. Considering (this) alternative, why is it so important, in contrast to the potential for Bush? Just asking for the sake of conversation; I'm willing to be swayed either way.

[htuttle]

10. What's wrong with plain old paper ballots?

Other than the issues for people who need bilingual ballots, or are sight impaired (both are problems that can be solved in other ways), the ONLY impetus I see for more computerized voting is so we can find out who "wins" faster (along with being able to hack the elections, of course).

And who would care how fast we can announce a winner? Corporate television. The same way they've mangled pro sports for the sake of commercial breaks, they are mangling our elections to provide better TV...

[On the Road]

4. Receipts are Part of the Issue

but there's still no way to verify that your particular vote was counted for your candidate. I think if electronic voting is allowed, records of individual ballots have to be retained and traced back to an individual voter. That allows real audits and recounts.

[shoelace414]

5. just a reciept is useless..

If I wanted to steal money from people, I'd give them a reciept that has the wrong amount on it, then I'd take more than I told them I would.

now.. if you could.. voter verify the paper trail.. and it is untouchable by the voter.. and then it's recountable.. well.. that's what we need.

[htuttle]

6. Voting 'receipts' are bad -- we just need paper BALLOTS

Receipts are not ballots. They cannot be recounted.

In addition, providing a receipt that indicates how you voted would be the end of anonymous voting in this country. Imagine the owner of something like 'Tyson Chicken' requiring all his employees to vote a certain way, and then demanding to see a receipt from all to prove it.

The anonymity of the public voting booth should not be compromised. Nor should the integrity of the paper ballot.

Both are reasons why I, as a professional software programmer for 10+ years, am very much against almost any sort of computerized voting machines. I'd prefer to use a piece of paper and a #2 pencil.

[kcass1954]

9. You also don't get a receipt when dealing with organized crime.

'Nuf said!

[Greyhound]

11. Sorry to dispute you, but it's never been a trustworthy system.

Massive, blatant, vote fraud has been a part of Amerikan politics for generations. Just as today, most Amerikans will not see the corruption because, I think, it would entail admitting our complicity in countless crimes perpetrated on the world since the european rejects first invaded. :smoke:

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. That's fine. Gotta admit a problem in order to solve it.

This one needs solution. Considering the upcoming '06 elections will suffer the same fates if we do nothing.

[MercutioATC]

13. You don't ask for a receipt from prostitutes?

Maybe THAT'S why they look at me funny...