NYT: Iraq Dances With Iran, While America Seethes (There goes the pullout)

[iconoclastic cat]

Does this put a crimp in the 2006 pullout?

Iraq Dances With Iran, While America Seethes

DONALD H. RUMSFELD, the defense secretary, delivered a blunt message to Iraqi leaders during a visit here last week: the Iraqis would have to be more aggressive in opposing the "harmful" meddling of Iran in this country's affairs before the Americans could consider regional stability assured and the way clear for the United States forces to go home.

It was an argument with a paradox at its heart.

Regaining a semblance of stability here is a goal of both the Iraqi government and the Americans. But the country's elected leadership apparently believes that Iraq's long-term welfare will depend on building a strong relationship with Iran as well as on maintaining ties to the United States. As the Shiite Arab leaders who now hold sway in Baghdad see it, support from their co-religionists in Iran could be decisive in keeping Iraq from slipping further into chaos.

That is clearly not the kind of stability Mr. Rumsfeld has in mind.

Read the whole thing. Sounds like those Unknown Unknowns are about to bite all of us in family jewels. We need to rub their faces in it.

[Deja Q]

1. Ironic. The enemy of an enemy is one's friend...

That's how it was when we worked with them during reagan's era...

Now it's the other way around.

:crazy:

[deadparrot]

2. What, the forces of democracy aren't triumphing? nt

[applegrove]

3. So Chalaby is pulling the wool over Rummy's eyes? Again? Just like

Saddam did.

[welshTerrier2]

4. "we want you to be free to do whatever we say"

you know what really pisses me off about this???

the response or non-response of the Democratic Party ... if Democrats genuinely believe we are in Iraq to help the Iraqis become a stable, autonomous country, they're naive but at least they're well-intentioned ...

but if they refuse to speak out against the blatant hypocrisy of rumsfeld's message of US imperialism, something has gone terribly wrong with the Democratic Party ... the DLC likes to label the left "anti-American" ... being critical of this outrageous abuse of American foreign policy is not at all anti-American ... it is anti-imperialism ...

if the US sends a message to the rest of the world, as rumsfeld has done, that we expect the sovereign nation of Iraq to dance to whatever tune we call, we are nothing more than puppeteers ... this is an unconscionable abuse of American power and Democrats should do the right thing for the country by telling the American people the truth ...

they won't, of course ... they're too worried about the political fallout ... the truth is, the American people would respect them for doing it ... btw, if they remain silent now while bush continues to convince the American people that Iran is an evil nation, their capitulation with bush's next war won't be far behind ...

Democrats need to speak out NOW to protect Iraq's sovereignty from a meddling US administration and they need to speak out NOW that war with Iran is NOT justified ... it's the right thing to do for the Party and the right thing to do for the country ...

btw, the NY Times headline sucks ... America is not "seething" about this ... a WH that only seeks to exploit the Iraqis is "seething" ... how dare they lump the rest of us in with those imperialist jackasses !!

[Lecky]

10. zzzzzzzzzz

Another blame Democrats for everything rant.

[welshTerrier2]

11. and another sleeping Democrat fails to respond ...

make your case if you have any intelligent to say ...

btw, your post was a blatant LIE ... you said my post was a "blame Democrats for everything rant" ...

if you read my post, you'll notice that i blamed rumsfeld for pushing US imperialism and for his hypocrisy ... i also referred to rumsfeld's remarks as "an unconscionable abuse of American power" ... maybe you just forget to mention that part ... it's one thing to criticize but please don't lie ...

you'll also notice (did you actually even read my post?), that my statement about the Democratic Party was conditional ... i wrote "if they refuse to speak out against the blatant hypocrisy" ... that's not quite the same thing as criticizing Democrats, now is it ?? i doubt they will speak out but we'll see ... i hope they do which was the point of my post ...

and my post also criticized the NY Times ... unless the Democratic Party owns that paper, your statement that my post blames Democrats FOR EVERYTHING is a just nonsense ...

[Lecky]

12. The Democrats HAVE been criticizing the current administration about Iraq

...but every time they do the fucking media brings up the fact that the Democrats voted for this war. No one ever brings up the FACT that they were LIED to...

The MSM is not on our side, it becomes clearer and clearer to me each day. This greatly disturbs me because it's such a powerful propaganda tool, ever notice how even though the Republicans have control over the WH and Congress the media always finds a way to shit on the MINORITY PARTY. The most corrupt administration in history is getting a free ride by the press. We are now learning that Judith Miller was working with these assholes to spread their lies...do you think she's the only one? I don't.

I even see goddamn "Democrats" at DU who constantly blame the Democrats for voting for the war...then they blame the Democrats for not coming out against the war (which many have).,,and when they do they whine that Democrats are not being shrill enough...and if a Democrat starts getting tough, I see assholes on DU who will then bring up something irrelevant to Iraq like CAFTA, NAFTA or the DLC. There are people at DU who just constantly bitch like it's their job. It doesn't seem like they are really thinking clearly about anything they just spout their vitriol and kick the Democrats when they are down.

You guys remind me of those obnoxious hypercritical parents screaming on the sidelines whenever their "team" appears to be losing. You add nothing...in fact, you hurt us even more.

Don't mean to take this all out on you in particular but there is a crew of rabid DU'ers who make it their mission to bash Democrats 24/7. I certainly understand their frustrations and concerns and it's totally acceptable to express them but I often wonder the intent of people who make a HABIT of doing it EVERYDAY. Some people take it step further and start advocating the Green party...LIKE WE NEED THAT SHIT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Is the GOP paying these people or what?

Sorry for the rant, I'm just fed up at what is happening to our country, I come to DU to talk to like-minded people...it gives me some hope. I don't assume to agree with everyone but I don't understand the constant sabotage of our own party...just adds to the frustration and makes me suspicious.

[welshTerrier2]

13. i appreciate your response ...

i want to make two points to respond to you ...

first, regarding the Middle East, i am very disgusted with what i label as the "we're stuck there crowd" ... we need not argue whether my views are right or wrong but they are my views ...

i am deeply concerned that we are about to go to war with Iran and maybe Syria as well ... what Party would you have me turn to to find support to speak out NOW against this tragic action? frankly, i just don't think i can put much faith in most Democrats ... it's not about bashing them; it's about trying to prevent an unnecessary war ... the Party, especially the DLC, has been heavily pushing the theme that we can never again allow republicans to paint us as "weak on defense" ... it's one thing to call for a strong, solid defense; but refusing to object to wars that make no sense seems like it's automatically part of the program ... call it bashing if you want to but that is just not OK with me ... and i will not ever again vote for anyone of any Party who condones such insanity ... that's point one ...

on point two, and i've written about a billion posts on this subject, the left wing of the Party, rightly or wrongly, feels disenfranchised ... we do not feel like our elected representatives represent us ... we don't even think there's much of a process for them to even hear us ... i believe Democrats will do very poorly if this friction continues ... i do not see the Party's activist left as an insignificant fringe group ... i hope unity can be achieved ...

but the very kinds of things you and others are pushing will NOT achieve unity ... you can't shame me into "going along" ... does this mean i want republicans to win? of course not ... but if the Democratic Party flatly refuses to find common ground with the left, and many of us see things that way (even if we're wrong), it just doesn't make any sense for partisan Democrats to demand, or expect, loyalty ...

what would be far more effective would be to call for meetings, discussions, forums and new internal processes to allow every single Democrat, from left, right and center, to truly be heard and to truly be represented ... if we want to be unified, we can't just insult people; we have to make changes that will hopefully lead to unity or at least to greater cooperation ... time is growing very short and i don't think much progress if any has been made ...

so, what you see as sabotage i see as a fight for representation ... i worked very hard for Democrats i did not like very much last year ... they got my campaign work; my money and my vote ... i'm done with that forever ... the Party needs a huge infusion of democracy if we are all to remain under the big tent ... the goal is unity but that will not be achieved by maintaining the status quo and criticizing those who are rebelling ...

[cliss]

5. Someone once wrote that politics is "like playing pool".

You hit a ball, and you think you're going to make a bank shot. Instead, the ball hits 2 other balls which cause other balls to move.

That's exactly what Don Rumsfeld did when he opened the Iraqi Pandora's Box.

Of course Iraq will be allying itself with Iran. Afer all, the most holy man in Iraq (Al-Sistani) is Iranian. These two countries share a lot of history. It will be to their advantage to become allies.....regardless of what Washington thinks.

RumsFool would like to quit, I think. He's getting old. Didn't he just testify in a Congressional hearing "I've given my resignation twice". But they just wouldn't accept it, would they Don? They need you there. Since this was your baby, you get to stay with it to its ugly conclusion. If you look at recent photos, he looks tense, desperate, exhausted from all his "surprise visits".

Don RumsFailed is a multi-millionaire. He's worth about $136 million, mainly from skimming off of arms deals, and his corporate cronyism with Searle.

I'd bet he wants to kick back with a Margarita Mary right about now. Right, Don?

[bemildred]

6. Duh, the NYT finally gets it. nt

[gratuitous]

7. Wow, who could have predicted this???

{Entirety of DU raises their hands.}

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. *hand raised*

[Cha]

8. Shutup rummy..you

fucking hasbeen..where's that picture of rummy shaking saddam's hand when ya need it?