Al-Zawahri offers truce

[greyl]

"Al-Zawahri says al-Qaida would offer a "truce" if Western nations with troops in Iraq stop working with the U-S-led coalition and leave the country. He also mentions al-Qaida leader Osama bin
Laden in saying there will be no world security until the "infidel armies" leave Islamic lands.

He also threatened the U-S with tens of thousands of troop deaths if it doesn't pull out of Iraq."
http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/12301996.htm

[Jack Rabbit]

1. How about all foreign combatants out of Iraq?

What would the Jordanian terrorist say to that idea?

[FloridaPat]

2. al-Qaida wants everyone out of Iraq. But they're attacking London.

But that was only after London said they were going to pull their troops out. So according to this, he's not behind the London bombings. Which leaves who? And you only get 2 guesses.

And if this is not real, then who gains? This guy was supposidly killed years ago. So did our government lie then about his death? Was he ever alive? My sense of reality is really going crazy with dead people rising, complying countries getting bombed, but the invading countries getting off scott free - so far. I'm sure once 90% of the US population wants us out of Iraq, they will come here.

[Greeby]

3. Umm, what pullout?

All I've heard is the same weasel-worded bullshit. If there were a real pullout, it'd be all over British MSM

[FloridaPat]

17. The day before the first London bombing there was a small blurb on

the internet that the British would announce a pullout of Iraq. Haven't heard a word about it since then except by others who also saw it and think it would be a good reason to bomb London by Bushco

[PATRICK]

4. The suicide bomber study

I'm lousy with names but the guy profiled nearly all the modern "terrorists" who committed suicide and in almost all cases the willingness stemmed from opposing an occupier of their territory against who no conventional power was adequate. it is simple as an equation and no belief system or psychology or anything else was such a common link.

This truce in fact is also an implied declaration of suicide attacks against us and any other foreign occupiers. Nor is that situation as hard to eliminate as to root out all the human race for the otherwise unpredictable disenfranchised terrorists willing to die as a strategy to regain their freedom from the invader.

Of course, trying to find these invisible few leaves the massive instruments of a police state with too much time on their hands. Soon they will become too busy with all the rest of us or discouraged in the un-winnable self-inflicted war on terrorism to do ANYTHING about anything regarding the pretext for state tyranny.

[SteppingRazor]

5. Yes, but...

How does this explain the London bombers, all British citizens who came from reasonably well-off backgrounds?

It's not just hopelessness. Violent religious extremism matters. Fundamentalism should be fought in all its forms, no matter what the religion.

[endarkenment]

9. I think that the point here is

that if we mistakenly assume that the enemy is a religious fanatic that 'hates us for our freedom' or some other such nonsense we are doomed to endless war as we fight our bogeymen and they fight theirs, which is more or less what the PNAC permanent war folks want.

So lets just get the heck out.

The suicide bomber study was simply a statistical analysis of who suicide bombers tend to be, and they tend to be fairly well educated, moderately well off men in their 30s-40s who are acting to end what they see as an injust occupation of their nation by foreign forces.

That does not mean that every suicide bomber fits this profile. The study also found that suicide bomb campaigns were very successful against foreign armies from democracies.

[PATRICK]

10. Violent extremism is contained in its own borders.

of power competition. It may be early, definitely for me, to know the motivation of the London bombers. They ere not very likely acting against Britain as a Christian bastion of anti-Islamic sentiment. The organization and strategy probably will match a sentiment of heritage in solidarity with the struggle against the Iraqi Coalition.

Or maybe they hate kippers. As to heritage. I can still sympathize with my Irish national cousins. In a similar situation, the occupation of all Ireland and add in more elements? We have not been pushed that far though America itself is indeed occupied by a dangerous minority of extremists. Were we invaded by invincible foreign troops though, that balance dramatically tips and SOME people will go to all extremes. McVeigh didn't commit suicide, but it was a tactic against a government he considered an enemy. The guy doing the study was not making any value statements. Just that atheists, sane people, ordinary people, were just as likely to be in that number of suicide bombers despite the active recruitment of naive zealots by certain groups
who were using them more as tools. the planners certainly don't intend suicide for themselves. They use these troops like kamikaze ammo. Nor were these London kids spontaneous. They were brought along and supported
by the Islamic extremists now resisting coalition invasion of the ME.

When locked in such a circle, simply demonizing and vowing eternal struggle against an implacable foe will not resolve a grievance for which there IS a solution that must come eventually anyway in the dismal long run. Vietnam by the way was an endless butting of heads thinking very indignant, pious and clever thoughts, using all power available. It was also fairly obvious how and who would win in such a circle constantly repeated. Barring the ever popular refrain of "annihilating" the foe disgruntled or victorious warriors must come to the table they should have been at all along.

There is a movie quote by a German general(Von Runstedt) who ironically got charged with war crimes. True or not it sums up what is perhaps said by brave generals even as they try to make this glorious mess work. "Make peace, you idiot."

Rigging elections to keep the nuts down isn't such a hot and noble method either. One might want to see how the decent majority ever get led to move toward them as a desperate alternative to a shitty government.

[SteppingRazor]

11. I mostly agree. However...

I think there's a difference between understanding the plight of those who become suicide bombers and calling for a truce with the planners who, as you say, use these bombers as kamikaze ammo. I don't give a damn what bin Laden or Zawahiri want. What they should get is a bullet in the back of the head.

I pity anyone who wastes their lives by taking out a bunch of innocent people in some quasi-religious war that the innocents didn't even realize they were fighting. But I think it's a mistake to transfer that pity to the people who brainwash suicide bombers into doing what they do. No trucve or treaties for people like bin Laden. Bush has failed us in not capturing the man, or even Zawahiri. Screw all of them. We'll never get anywhere in this world until we stop the religio-crazies on ALL sides who are running the show.

[PATRICK]

20. But all the focus shifts

to the suicide bombers or the heroic struggle of the soldiers while those responsible for the entire mess and the mess itself go untouched.

Therefore dealing with the ungentlemanly shock of the "terrorist" tactic, when the veil suddenly drops and the guy behind the scene and the changeable situation is revealed, is to dwell in sucker shock and not do anything about the scam.

How we were directed to wake up by 911. We weren't. We were misdirected to hate the foreigner's tools and love the war we were told would be an easy win. But apparently not for the war on terror but for the goals of both Bush and Bin Laden.

[wli]

14. .,. which is why GSAVE should raise HUGE red flags

[Norquist Nemesis]

6. Was that before or after he an Rummy negotiated

Wasn't Rummy at a "surprise" visit to Iraq last week?

[dhinojosa]

7. Looks like Bush made a call to his Al Qaida friends....

and told them to scare us a little about Iraq before he left to vacation.

[newsguyatl]

12. my thoughts too

[endarkenment]

8. OK, so lets call his bluff.

Why not pull all of our troops out of the middle east and cut military aid to all countries in the region?

[greyl]

13. kicking for an alternative view

of creating headlines. ;)

[barb162]

15. his last line is also very interesting

"Our message is clear: you will not be safe until you withdraw from our land, stop stealing our oil and wealth and stop supporting the corrupt rulers"
---------------
Who the hell is STEALING their oil again? Are not China and Japan paying the same price as we are?

Corrupt rulers? Well the Iraqis just voted a few months ago in a FREE election. Why are the terrorists in Iraq at all trying to disrupt the Constitution and further voting BY THE PEOPLE.

Maybe because the terrorists want to create their own Islamic fundamentalist state there and elsewhere in the Mideast?

[Igel]

16. No hudna.

You don't strike a hudna when you're clearly winning, and there are limits on the length a hudna can last.

[Disturbed]

18. Amerika has been an Oligarchy for many years.

Most people really want to believe that Amerika has no fault in the attacks on it's soil and around the world. Anytime the reasons are brought up, they are shunned. There are actual reasons. The methods that are being used are not supported by me yet neither are the methods that Amerika employs against others. In my view this is not about freedom, democracy or any lofty concepts. It is about power and wealth: Capitalsm and Global Domination of Resources.

[Igel]

19. That's one side.

But the wonders of multiculturalism posit the possibilities of other sides. (I'm not a reductionist on this point.)

[mmonk]

21. hubris

meet hubris. Hubris; hubris.