We need John Kerry in 2008!!

[LittleClarkie]

Sorry, was feeling left out.

Carry on...

Kerry on?

2006!!!!!

[Bucky]

No apology necessary

But you need to realize your user name is a tad misleading.

[LittleClarkie]

2. I know. It's a relic from when I started out in the primaries

He said one thing that resonated (that Bush didn't have a blank check with which to wage war dated 9/11) and so I latched on to him. I paid attention to his race like someone would pay vague attention to a sporting event. When he lost I was none to excited about Kerry, but as I learned more about what Bush was really like, and de-sheepled myself, I sorta was thrown into his arms. I read, I researched, I watched as he became less wonky and more angry, found out about Kerry 1971, and fell in love with the big lug.

So, on a Republicans for Kerry yahoo group, I posted and referred to myself as just a little Clarkie for Kerry. They liked "Little Clarkie" so it stuck. So when I signed up here, that's what I called myself. And so it goes.

[Mass]

1. You're right - 2006 is what is important now.

We need to win seats in the House and the Senate.

And, in MA, we also need to push Romney out.

[LittleClarkie]

20. So far, you're the only one to get the point

of posting this thread, which was that all the 2008 threads were makin' me nuts.

2006, people. 2006!

[Somawas]

3. Ending his campaign with $50 mil in the bank

still has me pissed at him.

[Mass]

4. May be, but he did not\nt

[LittleClarkie]

8. Where the Sam Hill are you getting that number from?

Over at Open Secret.org and the FEC website, he had all of 15 million by the end of 2004.

As far as I know, the other numbers were nothing but rumors. Someone here even resorted to just calling it a "bazillion".

Looking on the same two sites, you will see that Gore ended with the exact same amount.

So Donna Brazille, the main instigator of that Kerry rumor, and the former campaign manager of Gore, can just shut her yap.

And since the beginning of 2005, he's given a million to Dean, 25000 to the Dem Governor in Washington for her recount, some other money to runoff elections in Louisiana for a couple of Dems, and a goodly chunk of money to the DCCC.

So can you give a source for the $50 million amount, because I doubt its validity.

[cally]

44. Could you explain why you think Brazille was behind the anti-Kerry

rumors with the money. I hadn't heard that. Doesn't surprise me. I can't figure her out. I think she is a Democrat and does care about GOTV but she seems to have her own aganda. She trashed Gore and now Kerry?

[LittleClarkie]

67. I can see if I can dig it out, but it was an article that quoted her

that started the whole uproar. I'll go see if I can find it.

[LittleClarkie]

70. Found one

Okay, I see the $45 million at the end of the primary season, but by the end of the campaign, he had $15 million, meaning he'd coughed up $30 million during the campaign that he couldn't use, but the rest of the party could.

http://www.argusleaderonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-639.html

And it was said that he'd given more as a presidential candidate to the DNC than any previous candidate had.

And as I said, if you check campaign finance sources, Gore had about as much, so Donna's talking out her butt near as I can tell.

I don't get her either. She has lunch with Rove, she thinks it's just peachy that Condi got the SoS job, and yet she's supposed to be a Dem. I don't get it.

[Noisy Democrat]

167. It was in all the papers

When the mythical $50 million first got mentioned, it was specifically because of Donna Brazille blathering about it, complaining about Kerry to the newspapers. Charming behavior, eh? I wonder if she'll be working on Hillary Clinton's campaign.

[MH1]

182. Brazile 'help' Clinton? Anti-Clinton forces certainly hope!

Seriously, why anyone in the Democratic Party would give this woman the time of day after her crass display of anti-teamwork, is simply amazing.

Depending on the true facts of the matter, there may or may not be some legitimate criticism to be raised - the $50 mil is a total red herring designed to smear, though - BUT regardless of the facts, the way she did it was harmful to the Democratic Party as a whole, and downright mean-spirited and assholish to boot. That woman should be shown the door, and I will have trouble trusting anyone who would hire her. Not that they should hire her anyway - I mean she was Gore's campaign manager, right? Well isn't that a great bullet on the resume of a political consultant... :sarcasm:

[ray of light]

154. because it's not valid! Good points made!

[FreedomAngel82]

15. But hasn't he used that money for some campaigns for others?

I thought he donated some to someone running for Congress or something. :shrug:

[Ce qui la baise]

57. That's because you are wrong. It was 15 and he did give in to DNC

Later than some thought he should. We don't know why so why assume.

[LittleClarkie]

71. Here's an article that explains some

http://www.argusleaderonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-639.html

Why was Donna trying to damage Kerry, when she herself managed a campaign that had just as much in the bank by the end. I don't get her.

[Somawas]

92. I apologize for repeating bad rumors

about Kerry. I appreciate your giving me better information and disabusing me of that notion.

[MH1]

101. Thanks, you just made my day!

Sometime it seems so pointless to keep posting the facts because many people don't have the class that you show here.

It's nice to see that it's worthwhile once in awhile - even if it was my fellow Kerry-philes that did the work on this thread, I only just noticed it now - and it really does make my day. :-)

:yourock:

[nosmokes]

171. here's where the $50m figure comes from

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/17/1525203

and i don't care whether it's $50.00 or 50¢, how do you lose a campign and have money left in the bank? and then not even have the cajones to to ask for a recount and use your own excess $$ for it, instead relying on the greens and the libertarians to do the heavy lifting? and youwant me to vote for this *fighter* again? after the hours i put in phone banking and walking and all for a man that couldn't even give a straight answer to the simple question"do you own an suv?" no, i'll be voting for someone else, most likely the green candidate because john kerry exemplifies exactly what is wrong with the democratic party today. he doesn't represent me or any other working class member. i'll give him props on the environment, up to the point that it really interferes with corporate interests.

[Noisy Democrat]

168. Oops, sorry!

I didn't read your comment here before I replied above. But anyway I wasn't angry at you, because a lot of people have heard this; Donna Brazille managed to get very wide coverage for her smears on Kerry.

[Noisy Democrat]

166. Then you must be relieved to know it's a myth

Donna Brazille spread that story but it's not true. He was left with something closer to $13 million, probably because he was holding some back in case of needing to fight legal battles (Al Gore hadn't budgeted for that and it hurt him); it was money he couldn't have spent on his own campaign at any rate, because it was raised during the primary season. He's since given a large portion of it away to other Democrats, e.g. helping Gregoire with her legal fight (I think he gave her either half a million or a million), giving at least one million to the DNC, etc.

[wisteria]

5. Yes! In 2006 we need his help and in 2008 we need him as President

I hope he never fades away.

[Mass]

6. In 2008, I get to vote for him whatever happens.

[halobeam]

7. me too.

[LittleClarkie]

9. Lucky stiff

Which do you think he'll pick?

[seabeyond]

10. i like john kerry too, little clark....n/t

[Imagevision]

11. Kerry promised us ALL votes would be counted?

We now know this wan't the case, also, I believe that actions do speak a helluva louder then words. Bill Clinton had a way with words but then his recent actions with the Bushies speak more about him.

[LittleClarkie]

14. Do you know the name Don McTigue

by any chance?

I suppose if he would have given a loud dog and pony show so that folks could feel something was happening, even if there wasn't, people would look more favorably.

But instead he has a lawsuit running in Ohio, and Voter Action Teams forming on his website, cosponsorship of election reform, and other things people overlook in their rush to say "he didn't count the votes."

You can't count air votes. Suppressed votes. Flipped votes. And the recounts that did happen didn't get us anywhere. The gap was too big. He could have had a little tantrum I suppose. But I don't know where that would have gotten us.

I think, when he said all votes counted, he was thinking his election would be like Gore's. It wasn't, whether by voting or Republican design, we still debate.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. And how are you supposed to prove it if there's no paper trail?

:shrug:

[Caleb]

12. Kerry almost took down a "war-time" president

I would glady support him again.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Yep

He got more votes then anybody before and we all know Bush stole this election.

[MODemocrat]

144. I was devastated when John Kerry didn't get the presidency

He had huge crowds everywhere he went, and he looked so strong and is so intelligent. I had him in my mind as being president. However, I'm true to my party, so whichever one, ie; Clark, Clinton, Kerry or Edwards
gets the nomination, will have my full support. (One exception will be, if they pick a republican for a running mate, they can kiss me goodbye.)

:dem: :thumbsup:

[cyr330]

13. Kerry should have won in a landslide

but he was out windsurfing while the Swift Boat Liars were smearing him. I personally like JK, but he ran a shitty campaign against the moron who's squatting in the WH right now. I would rather see Wesley Clark run.

[LittleClarkie]

18. You like him, but you repeat RW talking point about him?

Why not call him a flip flopper and an elitist and complete the motif?

Reports are that he was seething actually. Cahill and Shrum, when they heard that Kerry was going to go out on an appearance and blast the Smear vets, called back "Restrain the candidate!"

No, DON'T restrain the candidate! He's good when he's pissed. I just wish you could get him pissed off earlier in the campaign.

He apparently gave Cahill what for and how when he realized her advice wasn't working and the polls were going down. She thought that August would be like May, when nothing much came of the Smear vets claims. Ah, but the Right Wing knew when to pay attention to such things, in August when it would hurt Kerry the most. And when to put money into such endeavors, in August when it would hurt the most.

[faithfulcitizen]

24. with all due respect...

"Restrain the candidate!" -was exactly the problem.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Tell me about it!

He finally got loose about the last two months, but it was almost too late. Some of that was his own tendancy to only get going at that point (the Closer, doncha know). But still, shut the f. up, Shrum.

[thebigidea]

36. sure, you can blame his advisers.

And I sure as hell do - but he deserves a big chunk of the blame for hiring them in the first place. That wasn't good judgment.

[LittleClarkie]

58. Well, yeah, I'll give that one to you

But then Donna wasn't Gore's brightest ideas either.

I bet neither one would make that mistake a second time.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. And every time he would get the SBVT guys they would've come back

with something else. Earlier this year one guy was blaming Kerry cause he didn't pay his bills. :eyes: So please. Plus the media didn't give him any time to show himself. And where did Wesley Clark get to huh?

[Jai4WKC08]

108. "Where did Wesley Clark get to"???

Huh?

Don't get your meaning. Clark was the lead speaker at the National Press Club that shut down one planned by the Swiftboat goons (they actually decided to cancel rather than go up against Clark and Kerry's Band of Brothers). He had an editorial published in the WaPo when Kerry's medals were first called into question. He was on CNN and MSNBC, probably as many times as they'd have him, speaking out and defending Kerry, especially his war record and medals. He toured with the "Band of Sisters," wives and moms of men who died in Iraq. He appeared in every battleground state Kerry sent him to, repeatedly, occassionally with Kerry, most often on his own. He sat on the dais when Kerry addressed the potentially hostile audience at the VFW convention. He was the first pro-Dem speaker on CNN after the first presidential debate (the one on national security), appeared on the Daily Show that same nite, and hit every other reporter in the spin room.

I'm probably leaving some of it out, but I sure as hell don't know what else you think Clark could have done, or where he should have been. I mean, it's kind of tough for a surrogate who's not the running mate to get much media coverage.

[jillan]

122. I like Clark and wish Kerry would have picked him for vp!

Edwards had a certain energy during the primaries. But it was absent thru the campaign. Wonder why?

[Jai4WKC08]

129. Assuming that's not a rhetorical question

Here's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth, since I'm a die-hard Clarkie. I hope it won't be construed as Edwards- or Kerry-bashing, because I don't mean it that way. Well, it's just my opinion anyway.

Personally, I think Kerry always intended to have Clark be his VP, that Kerry meant what he said about Clark "walking point" for him, but his advisors talked him out of it in the last few days before the announcement. Because of the Edwards' performance in the primaries, because of the buzz his PR people created afterwards, because of the money he brought in, and because he was a BIG protege of Ted Kennedy as a junior Senator.

But I think Kerry always saw Clark as the attack dog that Kerry knew he needed and Edwards really wasn't up to. So he tried to have it both ways. Edwards got the nod, but Clark played the part.

I like Kerry. I really do. And worked hard for him. Yeah, largely because of Clark, and how much we all wanted to beat Bush, but Kerry was always my second choice and I ended up a caucus delegate for him to our district level. He's a good man, and I truly admire him for the good he's done and still works his ass off for.

But Kerry has a fatal flaw, in my opinion, and that's that he is not decisive enough when he needs to be. Probably from being in the Senate too long, because he sure has known how to take a stand in the past, and stick to it. And because it's something that works well there, where you have to be deliberative and thoughtful, and give and take to get things done.

But his whole campaign was about trying to be all things to all people, it seemed; he hired people who only wanted to play nice and he listened to 'em. Even at the end, he couldn't fall on his sword over the election fraud, because he needed to keep his options open. It's just the way he is.

No candidate is perfect. They all have flaws. Kerry's just happens to be one that doesn't play in the presidential ballpark.

[jillan]

177. I agree with you.

Kerry was at his best, when he was himself. All of the mistakes came from him trying to say or do the right thing.

Look at him now, he is kicking butt in the senate. No one is advising him. He is fighting for what he believes in, and I support him even more now, because he is saying what I want to hear.

He would have been an awesome President tho, and none of this crap - Cindy Sheehan having to go to Texas, dsm, treasongate, fascism would be going on:grr:

[rfkrfk]

178. how did Kerry, counter the Swiftvets?

perhaps someone could refresh my memory,

what I remember is, other people called the Swiftvets liars,
and Kerry said that a certain enlisted man did not
know where he was.

anything else? (other than the fact Kerry's persistent
troublemaker has made several factual errors, we all know that}

[karynnj]

21. He went windsurfing for one day - during the Republican convention

when it is normal for the Dem candidate to stay out of the limelight. He also began work on debate practice. He says it focuses him - from his performance in the debates it worked.

The problem was the press - both in how they dealt with the liars and how poorly they covered Kerry.

[LittleClarkie]

22. Oh my God did it ever work!

He was so focused on those debates, esp. the first one. Timed down to the second, no minced words.

If that's what windsurfing did for him then I say he needed to do more of it.

Meanwhile, I live in Wisconsin. Tons of lakes. We windsurf. We jet ski. We do that hang glide thing when you get towed behind a boat, but you're up in the air... para sailing?

Anyway, we ain't no elitists. So what, are you people landlocked or something? Ain't never seen watersports?

[jillan]

121. Kerry was windsurfing when the RNC was going on

He couldn't campaign then. So he went windsurfing! I remember thinking how awesome it was that he was doing that. To me, it showed that he had more depth to him then to sit around and think about what lies were being told at that very minute.

Little did I know that it would be used against him.

Stupid me - even his volunteering in Viet Nam was used against him:banghead:

[Island Blue]

147. Wesley Clark did run. n/t

[Noisy Democrat]

169. Give me a break

Kerry was working with advisors almost non-stop during the week of the RNC. So he took a couple of hours to do a windsurfing photo-op, making a show of the fact that he wasn't running scared -- big deal. The fact remains that by all accounts, his house was full of strategists and advisors, and he was working his ass off to pull things out of the fire -- making huge ad buys, bringing in more help, etc.

I think he may also have occasionally eaten, and possibly even slept, while the Swifties were bashing on him; are you going to hold that against him too?

[TankLV]

185. He couldn't win against a WORSE candidate in a long time!

And that criminal managed to still wrangle another 4 years!

No thanks - he should have won in a landslide and still lost.

Get over it. Kerry's SOOOO yesterdays news.

[faithfulcitizen]

23. yeah, like a hole in the head!

:evilgrin:

[snowbear]

25. My sentiments exactly.. although..

I think Little Clarkie rocks! :hug:

[FrenchieCat]

26. Me too...I think Little Clarkie is too Kewl!

:pals:

[LittleClarkie]

29. Aw geez

:blush:

[LittleClarkie]

28. Oh yeah? OH YEAH!

Well YOUR candidate is a Republican in disguise. Nyah.

:P

[FrenchieCat]

30. Ok....now.....come on!

:shrug:

That's not the case.....and you know that I know that you know this!

[Mass]

38. No, she is right. (and was obviously joking),,,

100 threads pro Clark where little Clarkie NEVER said anything against Clark and she cant put one proKerry thread without proClark posters (I'm not talking of you here) thrashing Kerry, or at least trying to read her post correctly.

Cant blame her, particularly when she made it clear she put the thread as a joke, or rather a protest against all these 08 threads.

[LittleClarkie]

56. Yeah, I even had my little tongue stuck out and everything

Like Triumph, I kid! I kid!

And she's right, it was more as a protest against the 2008 threads, and a joke for those who got it.

I could see Clinton, Clark, Bayh, Kucinich and Edwards in 2008 threads on the front page, and I was feeling, like, all left out, you know? So I sez to myself, "Self," I sez, "There should be a Kerry thread too." And so there is.

Now can we please go elect Democrats in 2006.

[Jai4WKC08]

78. I knew Little Clarkie was "obviously" joking

But so was faithfulcitizen. So where are the "proClark posters thrashing Kerry"? Not here. Not anywhere. You can't tar us with that brush.

And tho LittleClarkie was joking (and we luv ya, LC ;) ), you are obviously not. Considering all Clark did for Kerry's campaign, how DARE you call him a Repub?!

[Adelante]

47. SSSHHHHHH

That's our secret ;)

2006, yeah!!

[kerrygoddess]

31. You are so right!

Yes you are!

[kerrygoddess]

32. Well right now John Kerry has something no one else has...

A email list that is 5 million strong.

For a guy who everyone complains so much about, it's rather astounding that his email list has increased by 2 million since the election. Don't you think?

[rockymountaindem]

45. For real?

I feel cool, having been there from the beginning.

[kerrygoddess]

151. Yeah... me too!

For real-- 5 million on the email list!

[politicasista]

52. That's really impressive

[Imagevision]

100. This is good , Kerry can point his million+ supporters to a viable

candidate.

[karynnj]

160. He won't have to point to the viable candidate -

After 4 years of reading intelligent, solution oriented messages from Kerry, readers will know that one candidate who cares for the same things as they do, who has offered viable solutions and who has reached out to push many of us into becoming more active is John Kerry.

I think Kerry became an extraordinary candidate by October, 2004. With fair news coverage, it would have been a landslide. When people as close to him as his daughter, Vanessa, talk about how the campaign changed him and his family, it's clear that if Kerry runs again he will be a Kerry who is more accustomed to reaching out to people. If you saw the CSPAN coverage you would know what the media didn't want you to know - he could very seriously move people.

Several MA people have talked about how Kerry really does learn to improve how he does things. They talk about having seen him improve his political skills with each race. This was Kerry's first national race.

[Noisy Democrat]

176. I agree completely

Kerry has learned a lot, and he has a lot to offer that this country needs. There's no reason to write him off.

[OneBlueSky]

33. no we don't . . . n/t

.

[DemBones DemBones]

34. As Novakula would say, "Bullshit!"

:evilgrin:

Seriously, I couldnt'/wouldn't support Kerry again. He blew his chance.

[politicasista]

35. Yawn

:boring:

[Mass]

39. Good - I can keep him as Senator

Because you said so...

[LittleClarkie]

77. Greedy, greedy, greedy

Be that way :P

[TankLV]

186. Totally agree.

Sorry, no ABB this time around.

[LTRS]

37. Why? Are we aching for yet another ass kicking?

Why is it that we'd want that incoherent wussy to be our nominee? You didn't get enough humiliation last time?

[Mass]

40. Highest number of voted ever for a Democrat. Yes, I want him again...

[LTRS]

60. Means nothing

... when even a larger number voted for the other guy. More and more people vote in most presidential elections. It's called population growth.

Some dems can't get enough of a bad thing, apparently.

[ecstatic]

134. That high turnout was due to Bush

not Kerry. It was the contest between Bush lovers and Bush haters. It could have been Springer up there, would not have made a difference.

[Mass]

41. I wish people could read, but I guess, on DU, there are limits, they dont

Or cant think simply.

[second edition]

42. I totally agree with you! Kerry in 2008!

The most qualified, intelligent and knowledgeable about issues inside and outside the US. He also looks and carries himself like I think a President should.
Unfortunately, some oxygen deprived DU's think we need a bonehead similar to themselves to run so that they can have a beer with him.

[derby378]

43. For the love of God...

...no more gun-grabbers!!

Kerry's a Vietnam vet. He should know better than to get between a law-abiding citizen and her gun.

[second edition]

49. I don't recall much in the way of Kerry calling for gun restrictions

for responsible owners.

[derby378]

51. Oh, he did, you betcha

He's still falling for that "hunting and sporting weapons" paradigm.

[LittleClarkie]

55. Did you have a problem with the ban that just expired

7 months or so ago?

Because that's about as restrictive as I think he was going to get.

[derby378]

84. I think he considered strengthening the 1994 ban

But yes, I had a major problem with the ban in question. Still do. For all that talk of "19 types of semi-automatic assault weapons," the ban actually covered hundreds of different guns, including some old-fashioned pump-action shotguns - not just the "Street Sweeper" riot guns targeted by the ban.

[rhett o rick]

46. I need a candidate that isn't afraid to stand up for what is right. Kerry

won't even stand up for himself. Bush duped him into signing the IWar resolution. The swift boat thugs made minced meat of him. He didn't fare well under the attack of the Reich Wing last election, what makes u think he will the next time. We need someone will to fight back. There should be someone going after Novak, Rove, Bolton, and whoever set up Dan Rather. I don't want us to slide into the slimy tactics of the Republicans but we should be fighting back. There is not near enough outrage from the Demo Party. Continued support of Kerry is hurting the Party. We need to let him go. Move on.

[second edition]

50. Excuse me, but Kerry is one of the few dems who have been fighting

What exactly do you want to see,us looking foolish attacking everything republican for the sack of attacking? I won't get into the campaign issues with you except to say, I don't agree with your assessment, nor do I agree with you that Kerry is dragging the party down. I think just the opposite. He represents our party well with articulate, well thought out actions,comments and speeches.

[rhett o rick]

66. I guess we disagree on what fighting is. I agree he is a good guy and

hard worker, but he isn't fighting very hard. He is articulate but we need someone willing to boldly stand up to the Republican machine. He hasn't yet. If nominated, he most likely be the nicest, most articulate candidate to loose. We need to get over the syndrome of being afraid of looking foolish by attacking the Republicans. We are loosing ground every day. We have lost almost every battle. Being articulate isn't enough. I apologize for misleading you to think i meant he was dragging the Party down. I like him and think he is a very important part of our fight. I meant, the Demo's have to unite and i feel that Kerry isn't the one to lead us out of this. Being divided is what is dragging us down.

[blm]

59. What your post proves is we need better SURROGATES around the candidate.

Every point you made was not that BUSH was attacking Kerry, but, that his network of THUGS were attacking Kerry relentlessly.

You can't seriously believe that it was Kerry's job or the job of the next Dem nominee to attack ALL of those attacking him? That's the job of TRAINED KILLERS and that is the job of the DNC and ITS operatives, just as the RNC does it for the Bush campaign.

The left wing writers, journalists and pundits did the worse job compared to their counterparts on the right.

Why? Because the left can't get the airtime from broadcast media that the right does, and the left doesn't stay on the same page as the right does.

Blame Kerry? The three times Kerry needed to actually perform man to man he hammered Bush all three times. He then went out and drew record crowds throughout the country.

The RNC had their system in place for over 5 years. The DNC should have been working to match their discipline and learn to play on all the same fields towards ONE goal, the way they do.

Bush was outmatched by Kerry, but the DNC was outmatched by the RNC and the left media was WAY outmatched by the right.

[rhett o rick]

69. Yes Kerry is 10 times the man and candidate Bush is, but that is beside

the point. No he shouldn't have to personally attack all his attackers. But one or two, yes. He voted for the IWar. Either he made a huge mistake or was duped by *. And if he was truly duped by * he should have screamed loud and long when the facts came out. But nothing. When the swift boat thugs attacked him he should have buried them. Again, nothing. We are loosing ground daily, and need strong leader not afraid to attack or at least defend.

[blm]

73. You totally missed the point. There should be an INFRASTRUCTURE in place

for ALL Democratic candidates and officeholders that is prepared for the public relations debate no matter WHAT the race or the issue.

DNC didn't have it, and doesn't have it yet today.... and the left leaning media got THEIR asses handed to them because the RW dominated them by staying on the same page - something the left will probably never do.

One person CANNOT do it alone.

And if you say Clinton did, well, factor in what all helped Clinton get in....Bad news constantly about IranContra, BCCI, Iraqgate and Poppy's involvements - the American people lost trust in him, so when the economy was sluggish, he took an even greater hit.

That was back when the media WAS more balanced and not the corporate-run media we have today that spent almost 5 years keeping the dictatortot propped up and his incompetence and malfeasance OUT of the headlines.

[rhett o rick]

98. I got that point and totally agree. My point (badly stated) must be

able to speak out more decisively than Kerry did in 2004.
Thanks for the dialog.
Rhett

[blm]

99. But that was media spin. Kerry had great plans and message that media

CHOSE to muddle and never discuss with any depth. Instead the public was told ad nauseum that the Democrats offer NO plans or alternatives. Completely false statement, yet it was repeated EVERY day on broadcast news channels.

And every day it was stated that Bush could not be beat on the terror issue - the media would never allow the public to hear of Bush's MONUMENTAL FAILINGS and incompetence on any national security issue.

If Kerry's campaign was really as bad as some think, then Bush campaign wouldn't have NEEDED the cable news to keep them propped up, bury the issues, months of Swift vet lies, vote suppression and rigged machines.

[karynnj]

119. Clinton was helped by all the bad news

and the Democrat who stood alone when no one else would go after the Bushes on Iran/contra and BCCI was John Kerry. Once it became clear there was something real and provable on Iran/contra, the Democrats who refused to look into it took over the hearings and pushed Kerry, a first term Senator out. On BCCI, the entire party tried to stop Kerry from preceding.

In his final report after Kerry's committe was ended - in the list of what still needed to be done one of the first item's dealt with Pakistan's Khan, who's nuclear bomb was largely financed by BCCI and whether he would sell the technology. That this was not pursued is a very large missed opportunity. During Clinton's presidency he opted not to follow Kerry's lead on this.

[blm]

145. And that is exactly why bartcop has it ass backwards on Clinton and Kerry.

Clinton does have a great mind, and I believe had good intention....but HE was the one who really got duped by the BFEE into not revealing their entire syndicate of crime when he had the opportunity after taking office in 93.

There would have been no terrorist networks, no 9-11, and no Iraq War,


and NO BUSH WOULD EVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN THE WHITE HOUSE EVER AGAIN.

[karynnj]

161. And at least per the Stephenopolis book

Clinton supported the Republican effort to fund the contras - mentioned as one area of disagreement when he was choosing the 1992 candidate he wanted to work for.

If this is true, it may explain why the Clinton administration didn't make a peep about all those GHWB pardons that prevented any further charges.

I actually think the real reason that BCCI was not brought up was not the silly story that Shrum thought people would mix it up with the BBC, but rather there is a very obvious question if it was brought up of why the Clinton DOJ didn't work on this. (It's likely that this would have helped Bush blame Clinton for 911 - hurting Kerry.) So it's pretty sick that Clinton now portrays his wife and himself as strong on defense, while calling Kerry weak.

What's ironic is that given BCCI, and his book on the possibility of non-state attacks, Kerry worked the hardest to avert things like 911. What I wonder is how he can get credit for being as prescient and as honorable as he was to fight all these things alone.

[blm]

179. You make an excellent point. You have a very powerful case to make....

If you add the citations, like from Shrum, Stef, and Clinton then it would be VERY compelling and hard for any fair-minded person to ignore.

[whometense]

117. No one could say it better than that.

Amen.

The dems' use of surrogates was weak, weak, weak. They left Kerry out there fighting on all flanks at once, all by himself.

[jillan]

123. Kerry fought against Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq!

He only changed his mind when he believed that * would go to war as a last result.

That was Kerry's mistake. He believed the pResident of the United States.

Kerry said this over and over in his campaign. But no one remembers that for some reason. They only remember that in the end he voted to give the pRes the authority to go to war if necessary.

[Norquist Nemesis]

48. Yes! I hope he steps forward for service to the country

and canvasses for a winner with the rest of us.

[Jacobin]

53. You can have him. You are welcome to him

Been there, done that.

It was painful to watch unfold.

[LondonReign2]

54. Ummmm...

No.

Just no.

[second edition]

61. I still think he is the best candidate!

Those commenting negatively either offer up the election results- as proof he shouldn't run- or didn't support him any way because he wasn't "their candidate". The election was close and Kerry earned more votes in this election then even Clinton. Why do we view the presidency as a one time shot? Repubs don't do that. They know when they have a loyal runnable candidate and aren't afraid to run him again. Just because you didn't win it doesn't make you a loser. This is really a childish way of thinking about things. I'll stick with Kerry. he offers the most complete package.

[politicasista]

62. Excellent post

:yourock:

[Old_Fart]

63. "Yes we do"

n/t

[kan2005]

64. Yes 2 Kerry

John Kerry was a great candidate and he got millions of votes, more than any other Democrat ever!
I would love to see Kerry run again but I think he should dump poor Edwards and perhaps reach out to the liberal base with Feingold. KERRY/FEINGOLD would be a great ticket!

[MH1]

102. Welcome to DU kan2005!

Glad to see you here. If you get a chance check out the John Kerry Group here at DU (look under DU Groups), if you are a fan you may enjoy reading the posts there. There are a lot of folks still mad at Kerry in the general forums so if you get a little weary of the bashing, you can take a break among friends. (Sadly you need a "star" to post though. It only took me a couple days of reading the John Kerry Group to ante up for my star!)

[brentspeak]

65. I have great respect for John Kerry

And I think he would have made a fine president. But he had his chance. I want to see him return to the Senate.

[Dr Fate]

68. I'm supporting who ever stands up to Bush the most.

Kerry gets a B minus. Probably better that most in that area.

[LittleClarkie]

74. That's fair. How's ol' Hillary doing?

Someone down thread said something about maybe her having balls and such, but aside from the... ahem... gender issue... I don't see it. I think that her and Bill are playing too much kissy face with the Bush crowd, her comment about Alfred E. Newmann notwithstanding.

[Dr Fate]

75. Kerry is MILES ahead of her. Plus he has plenty of "moderate" credentials.

...and he got them without kissing ass.

I still have a "thing" for Kerry somewhere deep down-

A part of me wants to be redeemed for all the BS they threw at him (me) in 2004.

It's up to Kerry as to whether he will get the support of the base in the primaries- he somtimes seems to know we are keeping an eye on his efforts.

[kerrygoddess]

150. Oh yeah...

He knows!

[WildEyedLiberal]

82. Does anyone have an A?

Just curious. Conyers, obviously, but he won't run.

[Dr Fate]

85. No.

But most Republicans with media access do get an "A" for fighting Democrats.

That is what frustrates me.

[WildEyedLiberal]

89. Well, I'm not sure I *want* a Dem equivalent of Ann Coulter or Rove...

That is, a Dem who would lie and slander just to make Repubs looks bad. Course, we don't NEED to lie because they're all so awful.

[Dr Fate]

90. How about just telling the blunt, unvarnished truth about them?

We dont need more DEM Coulters, we need more John Conyers, Dennis Kusiniches & Rhandi Rhodes, Al Frankens,Mike Malloys etc.-

For example- when was the last time you heard an elected Democrat on TV even MENTION the Downing Street memo? Did they ever mention it on TV more than once or twice?

Now imagine what elected Republicans would STILL be saying if it were Gore's memo.

Thats what I'm saying- Bush hands DEMs scandals on a silver platter and they cant even talk about it. But I'm not here to hijack a pro Kerry thread- I like Kerry for the most part.

[WildEyedLiberal]

91. True nt

[AtomicKitten]

72. Sorry

I came to like John Kerry and worked tirelessly for him, but he was a terrible candidate. He was incapable of answering a direct question with a straight, cohesive answer. Drove me nuts. Plus he just folded whereas at least Al Gore fought, not hard enough according to some folks, but still he got mad. I'd like to see a candidate with balls even if it is Hillary! I yearn for a candidate who will step up and not take the neocon trash & burn politics of personal destruction. Kerry just wasn't effective up against the bastards.

[Imagevision]

76. I'd have to see an open debate between Kuscinich & Kerry first

Kerry told me every vote would be counted and this wasn't the damn case!
Kerry didn't even help John Conyers out who was trying to save Kerry's stolen election - instead Kerry says; "don't get paranoid"??

[Dr Fate]

86. We have seen them in open debates before...

...and if they both run again, we will see more.

It's never DEMs who are afraid of a good old debate.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

80. Does Bill make Hillary pee sitting down?

:evilgrin:

[aspberger]

81. that is funny

you made me chuckle. Maybe it was a little mean of me to post that but Kerry just comes off that way to me.

Kerry is a brave man. He is also a helluva guy from what I understand.

[Dr Fate]

88. Make up your mind.

Either he is "brave" or his is a sissy who pees sitting down- which imagerey do you want to convey?

I'm not Kerry's biggest fan either, but save the Swiftboat/Rush style comments against DEMs for the Republicans.

[aspberger]

93. It is like kantian perception verses reality

A perception is a perception. A fact is a fact. Anyway to say something has to be one way or the other is just 2 possible ways, out of an infinity of ways, something can be.

[Dr Fate]

104. All your smart words confuse me- I guess Kerry must be a sissy afterall.

I mean, you would not have all these smart words if it were not true.

[WildEyedLiberal]

83. Friend,

Kerry couldn't MAKE Teresa do any damn thing she didn't want to. :)

[Dr Fate]

87. Sounds like Swiftboat shit to me. How about some substance?

There is plenty to critique Kerry over-Lord knows I have my complaints- but Freeperish comments on his manhood are pretty- well, "Swiftboatish."

[aspberger]

94. any time someone has an criticism of any Democrat

swiftboatesque motives may be asserted. That is why honest introspection can never be on a discussion board like this because someone will always slip in the swiftboatesque insinuation.

[Dr Fate]

103. Wrong- I question Kerry's POLICY and STRATEGY all the time.

You are questioning his manhood-I'm sick of this Bush/media tactic against DEMs.

Typical Swiftboat bullshit- and now its on DU.

[aspberger]

106. you have just proved my point

any criticism of any Democrat by anybody may be answered with, "I'm sick of all this parroting of right-wing talking points". What we are left with is safe, uncritical rah-rah which leads to intellectual dishonesty.

[Dr Fate]

107. You said he peed sitting down. That is not political debate.

That is a meaningless, false personal smear designed to conjure specific negative imagery. Much like Swiftbaot tactics- if not identical.

You are proving my point.

Nice try.

[aspberger]

127. well you are right

in your own mind. The truth that Kerry lost and not looking at every angle of the candidate will only stunt the political growth of the party.

Any time someone wants to quash unpleasant ANYTHING, just say,"right-wing talking points, right-wing talking points". Kerry is needed by America, but in the Senate.

[Dr Fate]

193. No- not "anything"- just Rush style smears- like urination "jokes."

Surely you see the difference.

I'd like to thank you- you have reminded me how much more fun it is to defend a good DEM like Kerry than it is to put him down-

I have criticised Kerry myself plenty of times-and taken the heat for it-but never with RW style talking points.

[aspberger]

197. well we have discovered the silver bullet

urination jokes! jUST MAKE REPUKE CANDIDATES THE BUTT OF URINATION JOKES AND WE WILL WIN A CLEAN SWEEP!

What great thinking, we can use the urination joke that brought Kerry down, to bring down the republicans. We are BACK!

[Dr Fate]

203. Does not make sense. Not funny either.

Thanks for playing- over & out.

[Vektor]

110. *Lover's Haiku*

he pees standing up
in fact, they call him "tripod"
it's that big, you know

lesser men envy
the giant liberal wang
must suck to be them

manhood so massive
his flight suit cannot contain
national treasure

[Dr Fate]

115. LOL! Thats more like it!!! n/t

n/t

[Vektor]

116. :-)

Good times, eh?

[MH1]

126. Oh, bullshit. Dr. Fate pisses me off all the time with his own

criticisms of Kerry. But I respect that his criticisms are about reasonable points of discussion (even if I disagree with his POV).

You, however, made a personal, mean-spirited attack not only on Kerry, but also on Teresa, which is totally undeserved.

(And bringing "intellectual" into the discussion, after what you posted - what irony!)

[aspberger]

131. maybe you see it that way

Some people use the right-wing talking point argument as an ego defense to not do a failed campaign autopsy so the truth, however unpleasant, may be revealed. If we don't look at all perceptions, we will never understand that pond of ideas the public drinks from; and, hence cannot formulate a message that is a winner at the ballot box.

[WWFStern]

95. Chris Dodd instead.

I'd prefer Chris Dodd, personally.

[wisteria]

96. Kerry is and was my choice.

I can't imagine any other candidate offering a more steller resume then Kerry.

[MoonRiver]

128. Your statement reminds me of that saying,

the operation was a success, but the patient died. :wtf:

[wisteria]

158. Well then let me make myself clear.

Kerry is a great Presidential choice and your presidential choice is, well,not as great!

[zulchzulu]

97. I've got his back

Whoever runs will get my wholehearted support against the GOP...but I certainly would love John to finally get what he probably won in 2004.

We have to change the 21st Century's present course and John Kerry would be an excellent leader that the World would also embrace.

[kerrygoddess]

109. I've got his back too!

:kick:

[Vektor]

114. I'LL TAKE THE FRONT!

:-)

Tee-hee. Hi, KG.

[kerrygoddess]

149. Ha ha!

Hi Vector!

[zulchzulu]

164. Yo yo yo!

Vector and KG!

Kerry on!

...as usual...

:bounce: :headbang: :toast:

[Vektor]

174. HECK YES.

Kerrying on. With bells on. And little else. :evilgrin:

[Vektor]

105. We needed him in 2004.

Fucking thieving Bush and his buddy Wally O'Dell...

There's a special place in hell warming up for those two, I'm sure.

[whirlygigspin]

111. This thread is brought to you by...

The Democratic Leasure Class (DLC)

Because things never 'really' seem that bad when your windsurfing near your summer home in the Vignard.

I mean really, that Bush boy summers in Texas!
Need we say more?
That should have won us the election in and of itself.

Noblesse Oublige and all that, ta for now dharling.

[Vektor]

112. Um, you spelled "leisure" wrong.

If you are going to make a feeble attempt to bash a man of Kerry's genius, you should, at the very least, try to spell your petty insults correctly.

:eyes:

Also, his summer home is not in the "Vignard."

Do you mean "Vineyard"?

It's on Nantucket. He is, after all, the proverbial MAN FROM NANTUCKET.

:-)

[whirlygigspin]

132. well your genius couldn't beat the chimp

but by all means, don't let that stop you.

Maybe we should run Walter Mondale again or better yet Dukakis,
all good men to be sure.

oh, yes I should use spellcheck, feeble as I am, I keep forgetting to click on that feature. But thanks for the snarky remark.

It serves to remind me of why French, like Latin, is fast becoming a dead language--stuck in the past and unwilling to evolve.
Languages do evolve, there is no 'right' spelling only temporary convention.

Ex.the U in 'Leisure'
only appeared in the 16c., probably on analogy of words like pleasure
from O.Fr. leisir (Fr. loisir)

So, there is nothing to suggest that spelling Leisure as Leasure should not be preferable, as it has a historical precedent.

As for Vignard for vineyard, it would seem more phonetically accurate
c.1300, from O.Fr. vigne
c.1300, replacing O.E. wingeard, from vine + yard. Cf. Ger. weingarten.
or better yet vinyerd

All i'm trying to say in all this is that you shouldn't let your respect for the past, as in your respect for John Kerry or the spelling of vineyard, stop you from looking foreward and embracing change.

[Vektor]

172. Took you long enough to look all that up, then copy and paste it.

My "genius" couldn't beat Bush buddy Wally O'Dell's machines, which "counted" the votes.

He certainly can, and did beat Bush.

But don't let that stop YOU.

You can jump off your high horse now, and quit acting surprised that I didn't respond favorably to your unprovoked attack. No one would have.

You can invent all the preferred spellings you want, but the fact of the matter is, it's pretty lame to interrupt a thread just to make childish insulting remarks about how inept Kerry supposedly is, and not even bother to check yourself to see that you're making sense.

Quite frankly, the windsurfing stupidity is played out and was never a genuine issue to start with.

I have no objection to embracing change, but I don't take kindly to being singled out on a thread and talked down to by someone I wasn't even in dialog with. (OVER WINDSURFING NO LESS!!)

Why out of the vast number of people who were conversing here did you choose me to reply to with your rudeness, I have no idea. But again, you really shouldn't be shocked that I wasn't thrilled about it.

[Dr Fate]

118. Can we use somthing besides RW talking points against Kerry?

Wind surfing as a Kerry critique? Where have I heard that one? Was it FOX or Rush? -about this time last year , wasnt it?

Surely you have legitimate complaints with Kerry's political & strategic policy rather than RW concocted imagery- lord knows I do!

You guys are almost turning me back into a full fledged Kerry supporter with this nonsense!

[Vektor]

120. That windsurfing shit is SO LAST YEAR.

And not even a valid issue. Never was. Just a "divertor" tactic used by those with no real ammo. Windsurfing isn't a crime, nor is it remotely controversial.

You are so right about the whole "let's criticize Kerry for actually daring to do something fun and pretend it's news" being BEYOND played out.

That's right....Come back to the light, Dr. Fate. :-)

Besides, he was total hot beefcake in those windsurfing pics.

[karynnj]

159. But Vector, we both know that he should have

cleared brush and fallen off a mountain bike - like a real President!

You are totally right - he took ONE day and got a lot of healthy exercise and was out on the sea that he loves having fun. In fact, he was setting a good example for those of us who don't get enough exercise.

[TankLV]

187. Windsurfing was sooooo last year - and SO IS KERRY.

Nuff said.

[Vektor]

189. There was enough said

before you piped in, actually.

[aspberger]

130. HE LOST

Is that a right-wing talking point?

[kerrygoddess]

152. Well yes it is...

They stole it. Duh!

[aspberger]

153. he is still responsible for the loss

he should have made his case more convincing to the voters and the powers that be. In this way, he would have been out of the vote cheaters range.

[kerrygoddess]

155. Oy vey!

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[Vektor]

173. It's a right wing myth. He didn't lose, and we all know it.

"I PROMISE to deliver the electoral votes of Ohio to George W. Bush."

-Wally O'Dell, owner of Diebold, and chairperson of the GWB re-election committee for the state of Ohio.

[aspberger]

180. BINGO-THAT IS EXACTLY MY PROBLEM WITH KERRY

Oh he promised to fight for every vote but when crunch time came-he chose to go back to the Senate. And we should consider this guy again to battle the crook repukes?

That is why I support Hillary. She will not reach for her ankles when the repukes try their stolen election shenanigans. When it is all on the line, she will fight back. Hillary will not make a mad dash back to the Senate when a rotten odor is in the air on election night.

[Vektor]

181. Why didn't you just say that?

That's a valid point worth discussing. Granted - it's been raked over the coals a million times and we're all pretty much at an impasse about where we stand on the "fought all he could/didn't fight hard enough" issue.

Still, what was offensive was the way you busted in here making lewd, disparaging remarks about his manhood when that's no real constructive way to get a point across.

It's fine that you support Hillary - you are totally free to do that, but why the need to be insulting to other candidates because you do not prefer them?

[aspberger]

183. I, Aspberger am the bringer of the Light

I will help all to connect the dots. Overlook my omega status here and RESPECT the Light I bring.

I bring the prospective of victory. Please don't lash out at me out of instinct, but pause and metabolize slowly my ideas.

[Vektor]

188. Ehh...well, let's not get a huge head here.

I'm not sure about "bringer of light." Don't push it.

I "lashed out" (IMHO, I "repsonded accordingly") because you were, well, sorta being an ass, dude.

I think most here would be willing to listen to what you have to say, whether in agreement or not if you approached the topic at hand in a more constructive, and less insulting manner.

Example:

Good = "I have reservations about Kerry's response to the election theft (or what have you) and in turn choose to support Hillary."

Lame = "I suspect he pees like a girl."

You can see why one statement might invite intelligent discourse and the other disdain.

As for me, I support Kerry and don't agree with your opinion about him, but that's fine. I also have no problem discussing with people their selections for future Pres. candidates.

As long as they are mature about it.

[Dr Fate]

192. He lost because of Swift-type smears- like saying he pees sitting down.

Even though I'm not Kerry's biggest fan, I dont find those tactics as cute as you do- and I am making that clear on this thread.

[aspberger]

194. well I'M SURE YOUR CRITICISM OF HIS IS O.K.

but my criticism-OH MY GOD!! RIGHT-WING TALKING POINTS!!

I never gave him any criticism until election night he stuck his tail between his legs and arfed off to the Senate.

[Dr Fate]

196. My criticism involves policy- not homophobic imagery against DEMs.

Thanks for playing.

Dont you and Hillary have some war recruting on college campuses to take care of and some video games to ban?

I'm done helping you hijack this thread- I'm not a Kerry supporter but I like & respect the Kerry people here at DU. Thanks- have a great day.

[aspberger]

199. STEP OUT OF THE BOX

go ahead, take that step.

[Dr Fate]

202. You pee sitting down and your mama dresses you funny.

There- is that on a level you can understand?

Go fly a kite Kiddo. I'm done, really.

[aspberger]

204. you can have the last word

to respond to that would be too undignified.

[WildEyedLiberal]

163. Well then please let them continue

I'd sure love you to be a full fledged Kerry supporter. :D

Seriously, why IS it that 90% of DU "criticism" of Kerry is a page out of Rove's book?

[LibMod]

113. No Kerry re-hash for me, or Hillary, either.

Vote for Evan from Indiana and say Bayh-Bayh to the GOP!

[jillan]

124. Waiting for him to show us what he's got.

I saw him on C-span, and he did nothing for me.
He just seemed like a really nice guy!

Nice guys don't have a chance. But I will keep an open mind to him.

Let's see what he's got.

[politicasista]

136. Sorry, don't know much about him.

[MoonRiver]

125. What exactly do we need him for?

Not for a presidential candidate. But hopefully he'll supply a strong voice of support for a democractic presiential candidate who is anti-war, anti-imperialism, and knows how to stand up to the fascists by fighting like hell.

[ecstatic]

133. no way!

Can't stand Kerry, but will hold my nose and support him, once again, if he becomes the nominee.

[politicasista]

135. I smell some good Rovian talking points.

:rofl: :boring:

[MoonRiver]

137. I smell intolerance for differing opinions and propaganda overkill.

:thumbsdown:

[politicasista]

139. I respect peoples opinions

You wouldn't like it if I was dissing the General while propping up Kerry. Too bad you enjoy eating your own.

[MoonRiver]

140. I wouldn't insult you if you didn't support the General.

To each his/her own. My favorite is not necessarily another's. That is NOT a Rove talking point. When people post this Kerry propaganda they have to expect contradictory opinions in response. Last I checked DU does not endorse one and only one potential presidential candidate.

[politicasista]

141. I agree to each his/her own

You don't have to like Kerry, but at least give him credit for being one of the most visible dems out there. Even if you and others don't want to see him as a presidental candidate, focus on 2006, worry about 2008 later.

[MoonRiver]

142. I don't have to give him any kudos.

He's running for 2008 and has been from the moment he conceded. I have no respect for the man as a presidential candiate. If Mass likes him that's great. He's doing good as a Senator. He can stay in that roll until he retires.

[politicasista]

143. Well I and others in this thread do

I didn't like the concession thing either. At least I look forward to the future while many choose to stay in the past. No wonder we lose elections. eom.

[fedupinBushcountry]

146. Kerry propaganda ?

:rofl:

Oh pleassssse. I see Clark, Dean posts all over the place, but I for one will not go into one to bash, just because it is not the candidate I supported.

I also wouldn't go in to insult that certain candidate. You know they are all on our side fighting the good fight,and yes DU has not endorsed ANY Presidential candidate. What we should be talking about is 2006 and how to get ready for that, and rather you like it or not that is what John Kerry would like us to do too. EOM

[Vektor]

175. I'm not sure I see any "propaganda."

Psst. What the hell is this person talking about? PROPAGANDA?

:rofl:

[Mass]

198. May be you would need to reread the initial OP.

This was a call for stopping all these posts about 2008.

It seems a number of people on DU are unable to focus enough to understand a simple post.

[ecstatic]

138. perception is more important than reality

At least in elections. And my perception of Kerry is :thumbsdown:

[wisteria]

156. Oh well, too bad your perception is wrong.

It's obvious you had someone else in mind even during the primaries.

[Mass]

200. In this case, this country has the president it deserves

and we should stop whining about that.

As long as we will not try to get the most competent president and agree with the perceptions given by the media and propaganda, we will not have a good president (and we have seen that in many previous elections).

People like Feingold, Clark, or whoever a rational choice could be need not apply. Anybody who plays the media game will do better than they do .

[Vektor]

190. I do too, and they reek like horse shit.

A stale, old, and useless aroma indeed.

[VADem11]

148. I like the guy

but in 08? Not for me.

[wisteria]

157. It's early yet- just keep an open mind! n/t

[roguevalley]

162. 2006 is the one to work for. if we can't get the senate and/or the

house, it will take YEARS to undo things when we do. Also, it will be up to the voters to choose the candidate for 2008. Kerry has the added baggage of 2004 on him and perhaps a perception of being a loser or someone who can't be strong enough to beat the pug. Hackett called Bush a son of a bitch. He didn't back down or apologize. His military credentials were attacked and he attacked back, hard and immediately. If Kerry can't do this, if its perceived that he didn't last time, he won't be the choice. People will be waving pitchforks by 2008. They won't go for someone who has good intentions. They will want a tyrannosaurus, DLC be damned.

[wisteria]

165. I don't entirely agree with your post. Kerry would do just fine.

He is still well liked among the general population, and he has another three years to hone his media skills. Bush is not going to be running anymore, and Rove will be gone. His loyalty is with Bush an Chaney. look who seems to be considering running on the Repub side, Frist, Allen, Gulliani and Gingrich. McCain appears to be the strongest candidate, and he isn't appealing to the Repub base. He may not get the nod. Kerry can be tough when he needs to be. He just knows how to control it better than some other people. People are just beginning to realize what a mess Bush has created and I have heard people comment that we may have been much better off with Kerry. My personal feeling is people don't view Kerry as a loser, many people were surprised he didn't win.

[Warren DeMontague]

170. No, we needed him in 2004.

And he shit the bed. He promised to fight back, fight hard.. Remember? "No retreat, baby, no surrender". And what did he do? He retreated in front of the Swift Boat Goons. He surrendered, and quickly- in the face of another highly questionable election.

And his wet rag of a personality didn't help matters any.

Fuck, no. I like the guy, but respectfully, he had his chance. I'd say let Al Gore have another shot at it WAY before Kerry.

[TankLV]

184. Absolutely NOT - never "ABB" again!

A quitter and appeaser does NOT deserve our vote!

I sucked it up last time - and I've learned my lesson:

NEVER AGAIN!

Fool me once...

[fedupinBushcountry]

191. never "ABB" again!

Your words, correct? Maybe if people weren't so hung up on ABB, they might have done their homework and found out about the real John Kerry, and spread the message BETTER. I hate that little three letter slogan "ABB", to me it meant that Americans would rather just vote against someone, than find out what a really great President John Kerry would have been. Instead you let that slogan ring over and over again. So you sucked up , that's your problem, maybe next time you'll back a candidate instead of a slogan. EOM. :argh:

[Mass]

201. never ABB again, I agree - Vote Kerry.

[Mairead]

195. Oif kapores vir darfen em. (nt)

[Moderator]

205. Locking

Enough already.