Only 20% of people in poll consider themselves "liberal" ?

[kentuck]

Sometime back, I saw a poll that reflected numbers very close to that? Do you believe those numbers are real? And, if true, aren't we much more of a minority than we would ever admit? And, what leverage would we have, if any, with the Democratic Party or any Party, for that matter? Or do you think our numbers are much larger than the polls might reflect? And, if true, how would that change your political viewpoints and strategies?

[Placebo]

1. I think the majority of Americans consider themselves "moderates"...

but more have been brainwashed into being a self-identified "conservative" than have seen their way clear to being a self-identified "liberal".

[YOY]

2. It's become an insult...thanks to idiots like Ann Colter

Some more of those people that don't own up to it may very well be, but prefer to mislabel themselves as libertarians or moderates.

[Mythsaje]

11. Like Bill Maher?

He calls himself a Libertarian, but he isn't.

[YOY]

21. and Penn and Teller

Just because they disagree with PETA and Greenpeace (I do too...moreso with PETA) doesn't necessarily mean they can escape the definition.

[dissent1977]

23. Aren't Penn and Teller very right-wing?

I know I saw one of them on a right-wing talk show bashing progressives and defending Bush.

[YOY]

24. yet they hate Fundies and get sick over anyone ripping

apart the constitution. I have heard spiteful rants over how much they dislike the Patriot Act. They also distrust the government.

They walk a wierd walk but talk an interesting talk. I have yet to hear about them saying how great * is. It would surprise me...but not too much.

They might stick up for him in some ways...but would denounce him in the most obvious.

[Starfury]

30. Libertarian, actually - CATO Institute

http://www.cato.org/people/penn.html
http://www.cato.org/people/teller.html

[dissent1977]

34. CATO is very right-wing...

There is more than one type of Libertarian, what we generally call Libertarian in this country is a very right wing ideology at least when it comes to economic issues which are CATO's main focus.

In Europe however the word Libertarian implies a very leftist position. A Libertarian Socialist (which is what I am) supports socialist economic policies as well as strong protections of civil liberties.

My point is that Libertarians run the spectrum from far left to far right, and Penn and Teller seem to me to be on the right end of that spectrum.

[Broken_Hero]

26. Good post, and ...

I agree. The media, and most RW thinkers have attatched a bad label with the word LIBERAL. Its amazing, i see people sneer and gasp when they are called a liberal, its like someone just called them a Nazi or something. We have to start pushing back in the word game, cause words control thought and ideas....but i agree with your post, well done.

[JohnnyBoots]

32. It has become a dirty word with a stigma atteched, who

here has never gotten a wierd look when some one figured out your political leanings?

[still_one]

3. well the 80% that don't

please stop using social security and medicare. Those are the MOST liberal programs we have

[gokar]

38. Their response will be, we paid into it, and are getting a

puny rate of return on our taxes collected. How do we answer that?

[marmar]

4. I think it's because of the job...

Repugs have done on the word "liberal." I've found that when you actually talk to people who don't consider themselves "liberals" about their positions on various issues, they come off sounding liberal, although they claim that they're moderates.

[Booster]

16. For me, I hate extremists one way or the other, so I tend to call

myself a left-leaning moderate. I've taken that political test a couple of times and every time was right where Ghandi was politically, so that's ok with me. I really don't call myself a liberal though.

[Lecky]

28. That's funny

I took an online political test (probably the same as yours) and got Ghandi...

I identify myself as a liberal :)

[Booster]

29. Like I always say, what's in a label anyway - I really don't always

say that, but glad I'm in your political company. Good place to be. Compared to my Republican friends, I'm a screaming liberal, but sometimes my logic gets in the way of how I think things should be and I trip myself up.

[Clark2008]

40. Heh... I'm with you. I always end up as Ghandi and consider myself

a left-leaning moderate, too.

What's in a name?

:D

[rwheeler31]

5. Huh and which poll was this?

nt

[wli]

6. it might be interesting to compare it to politicalcompass.org results

[Stil]

14. I took this before and turned up

about dead center. To me the repubs appear to be right wing whackos.

[wli]

15. unfortunately we need statistics, not anecdotes

[dogman]

7. It's in the framing.

I believe many more are liberal but don't define themselves as such because they have accepted the RW definition. A concerted effort needs to be made to explain what liberal means. To many have accepted defeat because the spin of the right has become mainstream. Many have surrendered and say they are progressive or some other term. Now the likes of O'Vilely attack progressives. Will people retreat further and be bullied into redefining themselves further?

[dissent1977]

22. Using the term progressive is not surrendering...

I happen to think the term progressive fits my belief system much better than the word liberal does. The problem with the word liberal is not that it has been slandered, although it certainly has, the problem is that the word has more than one meaning and in many ways those meanings are contradictory. Look at the way the term liberal is used when describing trade policy, and you will see that those who hold "liberal" views on international trade are actually very right wing. Although when you are talking about politics and you call someone an economic liberal it means that they support social programs that liberals in the other sense of the term despise. It is a very confusing term, and that is why I don't like the word liberal. Progressive is a much more straight forward term that is really only interpreted one way at least as far as politics goes, so I believe that is the one people should be using.

[dogman]

31. Not in all cases.

But I think to a large degree. As you point out it is lack of definition which is as I feel because the RW has been allowed to define it. This brings up my question, what are you going to call yourself when they have redefined and slandered the term progressive. Don't think they won't. That is what they do and they have already begun doing it. I am a liberal in the same way George Washington was.
“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.”-George Washington

[dissent1977]

35. I won't redefine myself when the term is slandered...

I like the term progressive, not because the term liberal has been slandered but because the term progressive I feel suits me better. I actually call myself a Socialist as well, a term that has been slandered far worse than liberal has, and I am not dropping that one because of the slander so I don't think I will drop the term progressive when that is slandered either.

The term liberal was a confusing term since well before the slander on it began. It has always been used in completely different ways depending on whether a person was talking about economics or politics, that is why I don't like the word all that much. I hold nothing against people who call themselves liberal in the political sense, in fact I admire them very much and will stand up for them when I hear them being slandered. I just think the term progressive is a better term.

[seabeyond]

8. kentuck i use the word liberal for my self because the right has

made it a "bad" word. so i like to say it outloud and often to take it away from offensive to normal again. but.....i dont see me as liberal. i am a very conservative, pragmatic person. always have been. but.....

i believe in right to chose
helping those struggling with food programs at schools
helping single parents
building up our educational system and being a part
gay equality

but
i am a conservative.

so who knows with that poll. i know over 60% of the people dont want roe vs wade overturned

[Donna Zen]

9. the poll needs to ask specifics:

Health care

government intervention into medical procedures

voting rights

out sourcing

environmental issues

veterans issues

education

college loans/grants

social security

prescription drugs from Canada

etc

Then when all of their responses are given, inform them that they are "liberal."

[bvar22]

18. Exactly!

Don't worry about the label.
Where do YOU stand on the issues!

When polled on the individual issues, the MAJORITY of Democrats agree with the positions held by Dennis Kucinich!

[Old and In the Way]

10. Conservatives have been very sucessful in redefining the word.

But they have managed to change the definition-

Main Entry: 1lib·er·al
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lEodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
1 a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts <liberal education> b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2 a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED <a liberal giver> b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal> c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE <a liberal translation>
5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

Thing is, why would anyone want to be the definitional opposite of a liberal? A narrow-minded, greedy person who needs direction by others?

[LoZoccolo]

12. This happens time and time again so yes, I'd believe it.

That's why the DLC is AWESOME!

:bounce:

[sonicx]

13. liberal is a 'bad word'

most people call themselves moderate (even tho a large chunk are pretty much liberal).

[NorCalDem]

17. The may be true

but only because the average american associates "liberal" with tree-hugging hippies. A significant majority (in my opinion) would say they are Democrats though. I think the real split in this country (even in November) is 2/3 Dem, 1/3 Rep. The Democrat citizens are just too lazy/busy/downtrodden to get out and vote!

[Eric J in MN]

19. I directed a video to promote Liberal pride.

It's about 4 minutes:

http://www.moveleft.com/liberal_values_american_values.html

[FloridaPat]

20. What's the difference between liberal, moderate, and progresssive?

My definition of a conservative is an insane person who tries to detroy other people, their rights, their opinions.

[dissent1977]

25. I think your definition of conservative applies more to fascists.

The conservatives in this country are the ones that we call moderates such as Jeffords, McCain, and either of the Clintons. The fascists are those such as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Coulter, Hannity, and the others on the extreme right.

The terms liberal and progressive are a bit more difficult, as they generally represent the same people. The term liberal can be a bit confusing though in my opinion because it can be interpreted in more than one way so I prefer the term progressive. That term applies to people like Kucinich, Boxer, Conyers, and pretty much any Green candidate.

[Hidden Stillness]

27. "The Word is Not the Thing," as General Semantics Puts It

This reminds me of polls showing that women do not want to be called "feminists" and have a negative, stereotypical opinion of the word and the group, yet when pollsters go down a list of issues, they always find clear and even overwhelming support for almost everything on the feminist agenda. Equal pay, the right to choose on abortion, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws, enforcement of alimony and child-support collection, strengthened prosecution of rape, battering, harrassing, etc. I remember during the '70s, when people thought this was a peculiar result, and wondered how to deal with it, improve the response to the word "feminist," etc., but since then, it is just accepted that with non-stop hostility from the media toward women and women's issues, there will be a stereotypical negative response on the surface, but beneath that--where the corporate propaganda can't reach--there is actually agreement.

The same is true with "liberal"--there is a reaction against the word, which after all, is only vilified, nothing else, (like the word "union"), but if you ask about opinions on issues, you will find on almost all issues, from wanting rich people and corporations to pay heavy taxes to wanting government to prosecute corporate criminals, from supporting environmentalism to now turning against the Iraq war, from being against NAFTA, GATT and CAFTA to wanting the whole population to have access to the media, from wanting the corporate money out of elections and campaigning to wanting taxes raised if it will go to education, etc., people are on the liberal side of things. Remember the outraged response to Republican attempts to kill Social Security, and the anger at Repub meddling in the Terri Schiavo tragedy. Often, people will not consider an opinion "liberal" and will just think of it as "common sense," and you miss it unless you really ask. It wasn't that many generations ago, for example, that Social Security was considered by some archcons to be "socialism." Since then, and it has been allowed to prove its value, now it is just considered a lifeline, and something that has always been there to help you.

When all you ever hear from the Republican media is jeering against the "liberal" stereotype, and then when they ask their "D"LC "representatives" of the Democratic Party, all they do is exactly the same, so that there is only attack of Democrats/liberals, and no criticism ever of Republicans no matter what they do, then there can only be this conditioned response on that shallow level. Deeper than that, though, where people really express their own thoughts, there is agreement with the liberal side of things. You just have to ask more detailed questions to get to it--but of course, this is exactly what the "D"LC/Republicans don't want to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Here's The Link...

Scroll down to ideology....


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

[best left blank]

36. The word is misused in the US.

In terms of what was originally intended, by the likes of Adam Smith and his contemporaries, most Americans are 'liberal' including the republicans.

[Walt Starr]

37. I've been polled a few times and asked that question

I always claim to be moderate.

[Comandante_Subzero]

39. Collective Brainwash?

Most Americans are more "socialist" than they realize.

How many want to do away with Social Security, unemployment comp, the 8 hour day, labor's right to organize, & all those other things the Repubs used to denounce as Communistic back in the day?

The corpmedia has fostered the twisting of the term liberal, as well as an almost complete erasure of American history in terms of labor struggles, civil rights, & the like.

Even most progs don't discuss social class, for example - in the US even the left is cautious & conservative & the working classes are never mentioned. There was much more serious resistance to the Iraq war in Europe than there was in the US!