Roberts' kids were born in Ireland

[kskiska]

From a Time article:

(snip)

Jack McCay, law partner of Roberts’ wife Jane and a friend, speaks of the couple’s adoption of John (Jack) and Josephine, born in Ireland 4 1/2 months apart. “As frequently happens when you go through the adoption process, some of the efforts weren’t successful, and it continued for a time … But when the opportunity came along to have not just one but two kids, they took both babies without blinking.”

http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,1086120,00.html

[DURHAM D]

1. Why did I read that the adoption papers were in Spanish ? eom

[City Lights]

6. Unos, dos, tres, catorce.

Irish Spanish. No wonder it was difficult to translate.

[napi21]

7. I don't know, but I can guarantee you those kids are not Spanish!

I believe the Irish story though.

I actually this this is a bit foolish...all this looking into adoption records. Yesterday, someone asked why they didn't adopt kids in America.

I realize people are trying to find any kind of dirt on this guy that they can, but I can't see any link to dirt and adoption.

I don't know anything about the adoption process, but I have a distant cousin who has more $$ than all of us combined! Her and her hubby adopted a little girl from Ruwanda. When I asked why, i was told that the adoption process in the US is an absolute nightmare, and they got very disgusted with the constant runaround, they started investigating other avenues.

They've had this little girl for about 7 years now, and all is fine.

[Changenow]

17. Why foolish?

Should nominees be expected to follow only the laws that are convenient to them?

[Stinky The Clown]

34. Not all Latins are swarthy ..........

Most are, to be sure, but far from all of us.

[burrowowl]

51. Spanards

Especially from Galica are blond.

[Maat]

60. And that's just a myth that 'adoption is a nightmare' in the U.S.

I went through it, and it certainly wasn't.

But then I was a social worker at the time, who went through another county. I knew the court process, and was not frightened of it.

[Poppyseedman]

42. I find it quite vile that the NYT would "investigate" Roberts children

in this matter. How about investigating him instead of his family.

I remember the howls of protest here when Chelsea Clinton was picked on in the press and by nut ball right wingers.

I find it disgusting we would think it's O.K. to stoop as low.

[Changenow]

46. We?

So illegal behavior should be ignored by the remnants of a "free press" to vindicate sick things said of the children Chelsae and Amy?

If this were an attack against the perfectly adorable Roberts children I'd agree. The question is about law, the children should be left alone.

[burythehatchet]

48. yeah because how he managed to assemble his family really does

not give any indication of the man's thought processes. :eyes: Whereas Chelsea Clinton was "picked on" as you state for being one of the most well adjusted and grounded kids in the white house. What's the correlation? "We" DON't think its OK to stoop so low, "I" choose to stoop a fuck-of-a-lot lower myself to find any way to derail this criminal enterprise/virus. Just looking for the opportunity:mad:

[Maat]

61. Yeah, as an adoptive mom ..

I'm not crazy about investigating the adoptions.

Truthfully, I'd flip out if someone was investigating my daughter's adoption; I would be afraid they would accidentally make a statement that would upset her, or embarass her in front of her friends, or identify and endanger her.

[Timefortruth]

62. If Roberts did something illegal in the adoptive process

he should get a pass?

These questions always go unanswered.

[Maat]

65. Yes, I say so.

Allow me to make the case.

Comments in the media would only hurt my daughter. And chances are overwhelming that they would be wrong. We built a bond that has resulted in her high self-esteem, and it would be disastrous if she believed something false from the media - written because they did not understand the process. And, by explaining, I would be putting her more in the spotlight, and it would be very damaging.

I, for one, humbly submit that we are going down the wrong road here.

[bettyellen]

67. nope, its about how Roberts handled the adoption process. and it's valid

not about the kids themselves at all.
that ain't stooping, it's vetting.

[Poppyseedman]

80. Vetting should be left to the Senate and the papers should focus on

the man legal mind, not his private life.

The NYT is going down the wrong road here.

If it OK for them try to find a legal way to dig into sealed adoption process, where do they draw the line???

If this was a democratic pick for the SCOTUS and the Washington Times were doing the exact same thing, I do believe the howls off this board would be loud and clear.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

81. FYI, the article cited in the beginning of this thread is from

Time Magazine, not the New York Times.

[bettyellen]

82. it should focus on his legal mind but they're trying to hide whatever they

can about that too, leaving people not much to work with.
like it or not, he has to have lived a life as a law abiding citizen. if there are conflicting stories out there, he ought to clear it up and he should easilt be able to prove he acted within the letter of the law and didn't purchase those kids. buying kids is illegal for good reason. if he did it, he doesn't deserve to be on the supreme court.

[AlCzervik]

84. I saw nothing in the article about the NYT-just because Drudge said it

doesn't make it so.

[AtomicKitten]

45. but that doesn't explain

why they dress them like dorks.

[Imagevision]

73. What is the significance of this post? Concentrate on "Dennie-boy Hastert

[XanaDUer]

2. Hmmmmm.

There are a lot of American kids who need homes. Gee, I wonder why they chose Ireland?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Lot's of kids needs homes

but there aren't that many snowflake babies to meet the demand, especially a pair of snowflakes. Instant perfect family.

[kskiska]

3. SELF DELETE

[GCP]

5. Funny how every other story about these kids

States that they were adopted from South America :shrug:

[kskiska]

8. More…

How were the children adopted?

According to The New York Times, based on information from Mrs. Roberts's sister, Mary Torre, the children were adopted through a private adoption. As explained by Families for Private Adoption, "

rivate (or independent) adoption is a legal method of building a family through adoption without using an adoption agency for placement. In private adoption, the birth parents relinquish their parental rights directly to the adoptive parents, instead of to an agency."

Apparently the process of adopting Jack involved some stress for John Roberts. According to Dan Klaidman of Newsweek, during the contested 2000 election, Roberts "spent a few days in Florida advising lawyers on their legal strategy," but "he did not play a central role," because " at the time, Roberts was preoccupied with the adoption of his son."

more…
http://underneaththeirrobes.blogs.com/main/2005/08/the_roberts_ado.html

[China_cat]

11. In other words

they bought the kids and wanted to make sure the paper trail was covered.

[Timefortruth]

12. Only permanent residents may adopt Irish children

INTERNATIONAL ADOPTION IN IRELAND



DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION IN THIS CIRCULAR RELATING TO THE
LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF SPECIFIC FOREIGN COUNTRIES IS PROVIDED
FOR GENERAL INFORMATION ONLY. QUESTIONS INVOLVING
INTERPRETATION OF SPECIFIC FOREIGN LAWS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO
FOREIGN COUNSEL.



PLEASE NOTE Section 10(6) of the Irish Adoption Act of 1991
states that a person or persons are not eligible to adopt in
the Republic of Ireland if they are not a permanent resident of
that country. Therefore, under Irish law, U.S. citizens who
are not permanent residents of Ireland will not be considered
as adoptive parents.
In addition, the number of children available for adoption
in Ireland has decreased dramatically in past years and this
trend is expected to continue.
Due to the low numbers of children available to be placed,
many adoption agencies will no longer accept applications from
potential adoptive parents. Those agencies that continue to
accept applications have advised that all prospective adoptive
parents, regardless of nationality, should expect to wait a
minimum of five years between the date of application and the
time the adoption is approved.

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/population/children/adoptions/Ireland.html

The partial ownership of the house may have given them residency cover, who knows.

[Lars39]

18. Family member did a private adoption when they lived in Mexico.

They left the country as soon as they were able, so that the birth
mother, her family, or the father could not change their mind and try to
get the child back. I'd think it would be extremely difficult for a poor
person to get their child back if they are having to hunt the adopting
parents down half way across the world.

[Changenow]

26. What was the nationality of the adopted child?

Was the baby from Ireland?

[Lars39]

27. Sorry, no, the child was Mexican.

I can't think of the name of the Indian tribe. They were supposed to
hand the baby over to the government and work through the proper
channels to adopt her, but they didn't.

On edit: corrected horrible subject line.

[Jersey Devil]

15. Except that it is illegal to pay a fee for a private adoption

You can go for a private adoption, true, but most states have laws that prohibit any fees being paid in private adoptions. Those are the ones that usually take place when the parties already know each other.

In NJ it is a crime to pay a fee to arrange a private adoption.

[DELUSIONAL]

9. Let's just wait until the truth comes out

The more stories I read -- the more I believe that more is involved.

Now -- WHAT ABOUT THE NANNY?

[Timefortruth]

10. Strange, it looks impossible to get Irish children.

INTERNATIONAL ADOPTION

IRELAND
DISCLAIMER: The information in this circular relating to the legal requirements of specific foreign countries is provided for general information only. Questions involving interpretation of specific foreign laws should be addressed to foreign legal counsel.


PLEASE NOTE: Each year only a few Irish children are placed for adoption. Foreign adoptions are exceptionally rare, since adoptive parents must be resident in Ireland for at least one year.

+++

AVAILABILITY OF CHILDREN FOR ADOPTION: Recent U.S. immigrant visa statistics show that in the last five years there were no immigrant visas given for adopted children/orphans.

+++

http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_402.html

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

14. This not only applies to Americans adopting Irish-born children,

it applies to people who live in Northern Ireland as well.

Very dear friends of my husband and myself adopted a baby boy in the Republic of Ireland in 1991. The adoptive mother had a very lucrative business and a beautiful home in Newry, Co. Down which is approximately 20-25 miles from the border. Shortly after their son was adopted, this couple sold their home and their business to move into the South. In fact, they still reside in Dundalk, Co. Louth.

If these children were actually adopted in Ireland, something is very wrong.

Also I thought the girl, Josephine, was 6 and Jack was 4. What's up with the quote in Time that they were born 4 1/2 months apart?

[Changenow]

16. Do you think improperly (illegally?) adopting children

is worse, from a moral perspective, than smoking marijuana?

Also, I'm not sure I understood your story. Who was the birth parent and who adopted the boy?

Thanks.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

25. Our friends adopted the boy. The point I was trying to make

is that under Irish law this couple, even though they lived only a few miles from the border with the Republic of Ireland, they sold their business and home and moved into the Republic in order to conform to the law.

I don't understand your inference about smoking marijuana? What does that have to do with this subject?

As for the abortion question, yes abortion is still illegal in Ireland but remember England is only a ferry ride away.

As well the stigma of the "unwed" mother has pretty much disappeared in Ireland. Most families accept that fact that "these things happen".

[Changenow]

28. My sincere apology.

There was a Supreme Court nominee a while back who withdrew after his decade old marijuana use was disclosed by the media. My question was to compare the two transgressions, that's all.

In the 1950's Ireland was a sad but rich source of babies for Americans who wished to adopt. I'm sure that legacy had something to do with the limitations Ireland eventually placed on international adoptions.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

30. No need to apologize, I re-read my original post and it was

confusing.

As for Irish born babies in the past, I have a very dear friend, that was adopted and brought to America in the 1960's.

Her birth mother, RIP, was one of those poor women that were sent to the infamous Magadalene laundries.

Thank God, the Irish government finally discovered the "error" of their ways in the past and finally put an end and that horrific practice.

[Timefortruth]

31. PS

I'm on my so's laptop now and in his username, didn't realize until I reread the posts. I'll logoff now.

[MADem]

54. Well, if your grandparent was Irish

...you qualify for citizenship, and the process is fairly straightforward. Perhaps one or both parents is a dual citizen, thus qualifying them to adopt the wee snappers???

Alternatively, perhaps it was a double adoption. Someone with the right paperwork adopts, and then cedes custody to the rich folk.

Who knows?

It sure would be a good angle for an investigative reporter to check out...

Unrelated, but amusing--great film about a snapper: http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=501853

[Timefortruth]

55. Even if one or both of them held two passports

they didn't meet the Ireland's permanent residency requirement. Your straw-man theory is a good one.

[MADem]

56. From my quick perusal (admittedly quick, mind!)

That law applies to INTERNATIONAL adoptions. If you are an "Irish citizen" you aren't "international" by their domestic definition, you are local, and the rules regarding residency may not be so onerous, even if you are a dual citizen and hold a second passport.

Interesting little codicil at the end of the reg: However, the act does allow the
removal of a child under one year of age for the purpose of
living with the mother or a relative outside the state, and
permits the removal of any other child with the approval of a
parent. The Irish Adoption Board advises that the accepted
interpretation of the intention of Section 40 of the Adoption
Act of 1952 is to impose restrictions on the sending of
children abroad for adoption.

Perhaps the mum was an Irish relative who found herself up the pole, residing here, or in some Spanish speaking country, and short of cash?????

Alternatively, the children may be of Irish ancestry, but perhaps they were born outside the Emerald Isle??? Majorca is a lovely place to spend a pregnancy....

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

58. Re: the residency requirement of the Irish government.

I think they're pretty strict about this. See my original post from last night about our friends who adopted in 1991.

They were required to move from the North into the Republic in order to keep their adopted son and under Irish law both adoptive parents were Irish citizens even though the adoptive mother was born in Northern Ireland.

My husband was born in Northern Ireland and he still holds his Irish (EU) passport along with his US passport. Mr. Wonderful would never even consider getting a British passport even though he is legally entitled to hold one.

We also own a home in Northern Ireland and even though we pay the "rates", i.e, property taxes on it every year, neither my husband or myself can vote in any election or be considered as "residents" because we legally reside in the US.

[Timefortruth]

59. If the Irish birth mother delivered

in Belize the adoption would be from Latin America of an Irish child.
Ireland presumably wouldn't have jurisdiction in that example. This theory would tie some of the inconsistent reports together.



No story will ever convince me that those kids aren't birth siblings.

[Timefortruth]

63. On the other hand

there would still be the issue of the infant's passport.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

57. That could be one possibility, re: Irish citizenship but

according to the US State Department you have to have permanent residency in Ireland to qualify.
See http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/population/children/adoptions/Ireland.html.

Another thing, I talked to my friend last night, who was adopted from Ireland in 1963, and she told me her Mom told her that she was one of the last babies to be adopted legally from Ireland to the US. Apparently the ban on adopting Irish children to the US was started by the Irish government sometime in 1964.

Frankly, I don't think this will go anywhere. No reporter is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. I'm quite sure by Monday the story will be that Mr McCay misspoke or something similar.

Re: the movie "The Snapper", one of my all time favorites. It was absolutely hilarious along with the adaptations of Roddy Doyle's other two novels, The Commitments and The Van.

[rinsd]

19. Even stranger for Ireland, considering abortion was/is illegal (nt)

[Changenow]

22. Women can, and do, travel. nt

[rinsd]

24. I know....

...its just that you would think that a country without legalized abortion would have more potential adoptees even with the avilablity of abortion in nearby countries.

[Rainscents]

13. Ummm, I smell something very fishy about this adoption!

I was adopted and also, I have 20 other siblings who also was adopted. My parents went through hoop to adopt all of kids. I was hardest one for them to adopt, it took them, 9 years to get into this country.

[chimpymustgo]

20. Bay Buchanen was apoplectic about this being "off the table" on Inside

Politics.

Makes you wonder...

[Changenow]

21. Details please!

If it was mentioned at all in the MSM must mean there is the smell of smoke in the air.

Where are all those who insist the children are off limits? They usually swarm these threads.

[chimpymustgo]

32. Dem Steve McMahon was cautious but unyielding that this should be

shall we say, "fair game". I think the Dems are going to turn over every stone they can to see what they find.

And if this guy had an illegal/ questionable adoption - it's something the American people should know about. If it was illegal, he's toast.

Bay Buchanan was just STEAMING that the issue is off-limits. I would just wonder, why? This is not about the looks or behavior of the children. It's about the parents.

[Changenow]

35. Indignation to prevent disclosure

is all they've got? Once this is out the options are very limited.

[Rainscents]

23. Yes, it really do make you wonder!

[spotbird]

29. This devistates the nomination

Up thread it was noted that much less has ended a nomination. This news may die of silence, otherwise Roberts is in real trouble.

[City Lights]

33. Wikipedia lists his kids' ages as 5 and 2.

The Robertses have two children, Josephine ("Josie"), 5 years old, and Jack, 2, years old, both of whom were adopted from Latin America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

Anybody have pictures of the kids? I remember seeing them after the chimp made his announcement, but don't have them handy.

On edit - I found a picture but can't post it. Wikipedia has to be wrong. Those kids look like they could be twins. No way are they are 3 years apart.

[kskiska]

39. Roberts kids

They look about the same age.

[City Lights]

40. Definitely.

Thanks for posting a pic.

[TahitiNut]

43. One story I read said the girl was 6 and the boy was 5.

:shrug:

[hang a left]

44. And they don't look Latin either eom

[txindy]

47. Adorable kids.

And who knew they still made saddle shoes these days? For boys, no less?! Seersucker shorts and blazer, too. I feel like I'm in a time warp.

Adding link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/21/AR2005072102347.html

[Donailin]

49. Jaysus. . !

No one fecking dresses like that in Ireland.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. I smile everytime I see that pic!

The little boy Jack stole the show!

[LeftyMom]

53. That boy isn't two.

He looks roughly of an age with LeftyKid, who is four, perhaps a bit older.

[Changenow]

36. This thread needs trolls to complain

about how the Democrats are too good to look at illegal activity if really cute children are concerned.

Trolls do have their uses, but they're never there when you need them.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

37. I agree, maybe if this was posted in General Discussion

it might get a few hits....

The thing that has my curiousity peaked is why the change in the story about where the children were adopted from and their ages?

If I remember correctly, every story in the corporate media said both of these kids were adopted in South America and that there was at least a two year age difference.

Another telling thing, at least to me, was the reaction of Bay Buchanan to the mention of this afternoon..

Something's up....

[Changenow]

38. Go for it. nt

[Changenow]

41. It should be rated up, there is there there.

[burrowowl]

52. Re adoption

It is interesting that Canadians and Europeans are adopting unadoptable US Black Children. There are plenty of children in the U$A that need adoption but aren't because .......
And what about all the blastos that the RW claims are fetuses in cryogenic jars .... and .......

[Maat]

64. Yes, there are plenty of US children to adopt.

Beloved Daughter was placed with us (and subsequently adopted) when she was 2.

I do not like this investigation of the adoption.

What if that happened to me?

Since I was a social worker at the time of our adoption, some might say 'it was an inside job.' Not true - I went through players I didn't know in another county, but who knows what they might lie and say?

And comments in the media always hurt both the adoptive parents and the children.

I certainly don't want my child falsely questioning her adoption because of a lie in the media.

I say we are going down the wrong road here (in my humble opinion).

[bettyellen]

66. sorry, if the guy plays fast and loose with the law, it's significant.

learn to handle your childrens questions. don't expect everyone to lie down and shut up just for you.
if he did something illegal, we should know about it, end of story.

[Maat]

68. I humbly and respectfully strongly disagree.

Your right to get something to nitpick about regarding Judge Roberts is FAR exceeded by my daughter's right to privacy and a healthy upbringing.

SHE is the one who would be profoundly harmed by any publicity.

Shame on anyone who would want to harm a child's best interests when it isn't that relevant, and there is a HIGH degree that any statement made about the adoption is false, and, because of privacy rules, could not be responded to.

I don't mean to offend or upset, but if I can make people aware of the potential damage they are invovled in, I'm going to try.

Suppose that an 'i' wasn't 'dotted' in my adoption, after seven years of bonding, and me being the only parent she has known (along with her other parent, my husband), it would be better to open up that hornet's nest? My daughter would be seriously affected for life. Shameful, I say (all 'i's' were dotted in my situation, but I feel for others). There are plenty of other aspects to investigate.

This is why they have created statutes of limitations, so that anything to be questioned must be done within a certain time framework - for the best interests of the child.

[bettyellen]

70. if everyone kept their mouths shut about wrong doing...

because some one else had a fear of that issue being discussed at all, where would we be?
bound and gagged. No thank you.
sorry, his life is fair game. as far as i know, no one is interested in yours. i hope your statue of limitations is up soon, so you can get over it. but, as i said, if a fear of dealing with your kid having questions is an issue, that's on you as a parent, not society to deal with.

[Maat]

71. I think you missed my point.

This is going to hurt the Roberts kids - they will be the ones hurt most.

How would you feel is someone relentlessly examined your conduct during a pregnancy, or the totality of the circumstances of your kids' births, looking for an attack item?

I stick by my assertion that this investigation is SHAMEFUL and INSENSTIVE about children's welfare.

Have a nice day!

[Timefortruth]

77. Why have adoption laws then?

What is shameful is the willingness to excuse potentially illegal behavior from a future Supreme Court Justice. You act as if this situation was beyond his control, it was well within his control.

If you're worried about scrutiny you have two ways to protect yourself. Behave honestly and ethically so there is no concern about getting caught or avoid positions where your transgressions will be revealed.

[bettyellen]

83. rich people who BUY KIDS should not be allowed to hide behind them

if the kids has unethical parents- or a dad who works 80 hours a week, that's more to be concerned about if you ask me.

[Timefortruth]

78. The kids know they're adopted

it isn't going to hurt them, you concern is a stretch at very best.

Have a nice day.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

72. Maat, I appreciate what you're saying about your daughter,

but bottom line, at least to me is this: No one is above the law, whether it be the laws of a state, the federal government or a foreign government.

I'm not saying that Judge Robert's and his wife did anything illegal here, but why the sudden change in this story? First we were told that these children were adopted in Latin/South America and there was at least a 1 year age difference.

Now according to Mr. McCay, a friend and collegue of Roberts' wife, that these children were of Irish descent and born 4 1/2 months apart. Someone, somewhere has their wires crossed.

A simple statement of facts is all I'm looking for. If these children were legally adopted, there's nothing to hide. End of story.

[Maat]

69. Because of what I have learned being an adoptive mom ..

I will NOT be paying attention to any investigation of the Roberts' adoptions.

I think that it is harmful to the children, and disgusting.

For those of you continuing, enjoy, and have a nice day!

[bettyellen]

74. Listen, I'm sorry your adoption process was difficult and all but

if people like roberts can just pay up to jump the line and skirt the law, it hurts everybody.
if there parents commited any other crime that would hurt the kids too, but less so than the average kid in america without the resources. because a person has toddlers it cannot make them above the law.
what about all the kids in shelters because dad was busted for smoking weed?
give me a break, his appointment will be for 30+ years and he's acary, so we'll do anything it takes to get to the truth.

[Maat]

75. Well, if a reporter destroys a child's life ..

because he wanted to get Roberts ..

that's something his or her conscience will have to live with for the rest of that reporter's life.

And I wouldn't characterize my child's adoption as difficult; I'm trying to make a point about the welfare of the Roberts' children.

[bettyellen]

76. everybody has to face up to the truth, Maat.

these kids can have a great or crappy upbringing, much is up to the parents themselves. i sincerely doubt he'll have to give the kids back. but if he cheated the system , yeah , his kids should know that. otherwise we're encouraging hippocracsy.
if they did something dishonest, they don't get a freepass for having toddlers. if the kids were groen up it would be okay to look into? i se=incerelt hope that's not what you're suggesting.
thank god life doesn't work that way, free get out of jail cards for parents of young kids.
what utter bullshit.

[Timefortruth]

85. Is this the only area where Roberts' potentially

illegal behavior should be ignored? Or do you have a list of laws that are acceptable for him to break?

As a hypothetical, it would be devastating to his kids if it were found out he was an embezzler or a flasher, so are those on the list as off limits for investigative journalists as well?

What you don't understand is that if there was something wrong with the adoptions Roberts will forever look over his shoulder, such a problem leaves him open to blackmail. The kids are young enough that they can be protected today and grow up with the truth of circumstances of their birth. To find out in five or ten years that they had been lied to would truly be devastating.

[Karenina]

87. Is John Roberts above the law?

It is PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE to ensure that a Supreme Court nominee does not consider himself "above the law" in pursuing his personal and professional ends.

[Timefortruth]

86. What do you think Roberts did that's so horrible

that the truth of it would destroy his children's lives?

[AuntPatsy]

79. Hitler would have loved those children, the perfect Arian race cloning 101