Is the US headed for (or already in) a religious civil war?

[Stinky The Clown]

I ask this question in all seriousness. The evidence is everywhere. It has, in fact, a media name: "The Culture Wars".

Just this past week, on Hardballs, Tweety had a Young Republican and Young Democrat. He asked the young Republican why he didn't enlist to fight Kim Il Bush's War in Iraq©. The Young Republican said he was fighting a war. A culture war. Here. At home. My home and yours. The US.

To be sure, this is but one anecdote. But it is soooooo indicative of what the religious right wants and what their tactics are. They *do* see it as a war.

What's your take?

Are we in a religious war?

If you think we are, will it ever go hot?

[opihimoimoi]

1. It has been hot for a number of years and getting hgotter.

What we see today is a Holy War in its incipient stage....Bush has started a conflagration....with what will turn out to be a very steep price. This is the warm ups, not even 1st inning.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I'm not talking about international war

I'm talking about a religious war within our own borders. Rightwing religious nut jobs and their followers vs the rest of us.

The only 'hot' I can see so far were the abortion clinic bombings some years ago.

[getmeouttahere]

4. Bring it on....

if they continue to force their beliefs on the rest of us, you better believe it's war. And maybe we'll find out if they are indeed a minority. I'd like to think that religious conservatives are a small minority, with Bush simply emboldening them. We'll see...

[opihimoimoi]

25. Our own Relgious Wars has started about 25 to 39 years ago...

That is when Pat Robinson urged the Christian Activists to engage in School Boards, Neighborhood Boards, City Councils, Legislatures, Mayorships, Govenorships, etc. This continues till the present...

Its gone off the wall.....and now we pay a price of a Bush selected despite the filter of good voting....

Ignorant Dufus Peeps choose Ignorant/Dufus Leaders which in turn, leads to stupid decisions, sometimes of dire consequences....

That our Nation is undergoing stress and discomfort is conformation.

[lumpy]

3. Religious civil war.

I think the born-again religious fundamentlists are becoming warlike against the US Constitution. When you have people declaring the US a Christian nation and a president using religiosity as a poltical ploy we might be well on the way to fighting religious zealotry.

[ClassWarrior]

5. Hmmmm... another post about divided Americans.

Remember, the Radical RW NEEDS a war in order dominate. When the American people are divided, THEY win. When we're united, WE win. Threads like these, perhaps unknowingly, advance the Radical RW agenda.

NGU.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. I'm sorry, CW, but I don't buy it. What would you have us do?

Should we continue to be civil and generous to politicians who are determined to obliterate all of the post-WWII gains we have made? This mindset is exactly why we lose; many of us appear to be unable to accept the fact that war was already declared on us. So many of us seem to believe that our system of government is still functioning, when in fact it has been utterly corrupted and compromised. We are not the ones dividing the American people; they are. You are correct about the fact that they win when we are divided; that division is their agenda.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Here! Here!

You're exactly right.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Oh sure, because the RWer said it's a war, it must be true.

Did I say anything about politicians?? I said THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Just because a miniscule minority of criminals say the American people are at war with one another, is that a reason to fight our neighbors in the streets??

Note my handle. I'm only too willing to wage war against the leaders of the Radical RW - but I don't for one minute allow those fucks to dictate to me that my misguided-but-well-intentioned Republicon-voting neighbor is my enemy.

NGU.

[lumpy]

8. I disagree.

The truth of the matter is that the religious so-called right is gaining political strength and influence in the political arena. Listen to professed Christian members of Congress who want to overturn Supreme Court decisions and create morality legislation. Hopefully most Americans desire to retain the freedom of expression, personal decisions of privacy and the right to practice their particular form of spirituality.

[ClassWarrior]

10. So why haven't they banned abortion and gay marriage yet?

Why isn't the 10 Commandments on every street corner?

You need to read this article. The link is expired, but I'll PM it to you if you want some enlightenment:

Getting Religion, Republican Style

Jonathan Chait
April 1, 2005

The Terri Schiavo saga has prompted yet another round of fears that the Republican Party has been hijacked by religious conservatives. The truth, however, is just the opposite: Religious conservatives have been hijacked by the Republican Party.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-chait1apr01.story

NGU.

[graywarrior]

Divide and conquer. Works everytime.

It's the oldest technique in the world.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Exactly. My neighbor isn't my enemy. He's a potential recruit.

And I work on him every chance I get.

NGU.

[lumpy]

24. I am enlightened about may things.

I do agree that the Republican party has highjacked and is using the religious right to further their insidious agenda. It is undeniable that many religious right church bodies have made inroads in politics to further their agenda. Rick Santorum's Congressional membership is just one example of how the Christian right has gained power in the Congress..... So far banning gay rights has been accomplished in some state legislation, it will be a struggle for gays to have full rights as partners in marriage. The desire to abandon women's rights as far as determining privacy of choice is in full assault by the far right. The Ten Commandments sets out some good rules to live by. I would have no problem with displaying a modernized version eliminating references to God.

[rhett o rick]

17. Like it or not, we are divided and playing directly into the hands of

the elite. This is a class war not any other. The elite have the power and they are determined to bleed us dry.

[graywarrior]

18. And they watch as democrats divide. Read DU for proof.

[ClassWarrior]

19. Agreed that it's the elites who are trying to foment class war.

Note the article in post #10. And again, note my handle.

NGU.

[Finder]

21. Who are the "elite"?

The war is being fought and funded by the lower/middle class at a grassroots level. I agree it is prompted by corporate/fascist elements but for the average joe it is not a class war by any means. After all, this admin gave them all tax cuts.(in their opinion)

Guys like Diamond Pat Robertson are seen as righteous by the right while guys like Soros are seen as evil. Just look at the way they see Ken Lay vs Martha Stewart?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

28. I am not talking about the Iraq War as being a class war. The elite

are waging a war against the middle class and poor. You know how we have a supposed war on terror and a war on drugs, well there is a less known war on the middle class. Most in the red states either don't know or don't care. Many in the blue states are sure that it will all work out. But billions and billions of dollars are being transfered either directly or indirectly from the middle class to the rich or elite. The huge debt for the IWar will be paid completely by the middle class and not a cent by the rich. but they are reaping profits galore from the IWar.

[Finder]

11. We are and it is quite warm.

Waco, militia standoffs, clinic bombings, OKC bombing, domestic terrorism are just a few of the many battles that have been fought and are still happening even today. The Right wing attack on the Catholic Church via the priest scandals is also part of the culture war and the attack on education is glowing hot.

Those of us on the other side are kept confused/overwhelmed dealing with the religious right as well as the neocons who are a separate ideology but focus more on global issues. We are kept from focusing by being bombarded by so many issues.

Even if a person is not a political idealogue they are given a perceived enemy--satan, pedophilia, communism, foreign terrorism, biological warfare, etc...

The fear factor works on progressives as well as conservatives as you can see by some of the posts even on DU.

Al Qaeda, the mafia, the republican party, religious right, etc... work through cells that focus on a particular meme or objective and are successful.

Meanwhile, the main issue for some of our "progressive" cells is to erradicate the word "b*tch" or discussion of breasts from messageboards.(a battle fought by conservatives for years, btw) We also take the bait from disruptors who bring cultural divides to get us to turn on each other. Relativism is no longer a prerequisite for progressives it seems.

Until we start framing the issues or at least prevent them from doing so, we don't have a chance of winning even the smallest battle.

[Ian David]

12. Did you just notice this only today?

If you want to see what those Xian fundamentalists REALLY think of "freedom to pray," just look at how they respond when it isn't THEIR gawd being prayed to.

And as long as it is their OWN particular denomination's brand of Xianity being taught in public school.

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G'Quon wrote, 'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way.' The war we fight is not against powers and principalities -- it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.
- The book of G'Kar

[AuntPatsy]

13. Such has always been a never ending battle ever since religion

came into light.

[rhett o rick]

14. No it is not a religious war. We are definitely at war, but it is for power

and money. There are those that want us to be divided by politics, race, religion, etc. It makes us easier to manipulate. This Country is quickly becoming a plutocracy. Those with money want it all. They used to need the working middle class, but now they take their factories to other countries. When they destroy the environment for profit, who will have to fix the damage? Who has to pay for all the infrastructure in this Country. They say it is socialism to give money to the poor, but the energy bill gives money to the rich. How long can they take our money? Who will pay for the IWar? NOt the rich. They are stealing our retirement money and looking to take away Social Security. How do we fight them with all their money and power? Do the French still have guillotines??

[RC]

16. The Conservatives/far right need an enemy in order to function.

They can not function without a perceived enemy. Look at the history of most religions. Look at Christianity. I was taught "Onward Christian Solders" as a kid. In school & at home I was taught fighting was wrong. In church that was good. Even at that tender age I saw the disconnect.
The answers I received from my questions did not make sense.


This is their symbol?

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. Did you see that smarmy young Republipuke friday

When Chris Matthews asked him outright if he'd go to Iraq? He had a look on his face like he'd been caught having sex with the family dog. It was beautiful - A young Republipuke squirming his way out of a direct, simple question. No, he wouldn't go. Send someone elses kid instead. Just like Limbaugh, Hannity, Severin, Morgan, et al.
Stinking right wing hypocrites, all of them.

[wli]

22. the divisions are artificially imposed, it's a class war

It's all propaganda from both the left and the right intended to keep the lower classes fighting against each other while Bushler, Cheney, et al play "Who wants to be a trillionaire?"

[kitkat65]

23. Just flipping through channels and ended up on a pastor preaching

against the SCOTUS because 5 of them are "evolutionists."

:eyes:

[bobbieinok]

27. another question to ask at confirmation hearings??