A discussion with a DNC person at the Fair

[LittleClarkie]

I got the chance to talk to someone named Bill today at the fair. He had some interesting comments about where the party should be going, and things that happened last year.

One of the fair goers said something about the liberal wing of the party being all that was left or some such. While many of us at the booth were ready to shout something back, he commented that she had a point.

I asked what he meant, and he said that while he thought many liberal issues were important, that the party needed to get back to its populist roots. The other issues should be supported, but the ones that we, shall I say, put in the window for others to see should populist issues like health care and minimum wage.

I asked if that was why we elected Howard Dean to the chairmanship. He said that was part of it. He commented that Howard wasn't even that liberal. I added that Howard himself would agree with that.

I asked about Moveon and ACT and some of the other groups out there. He said that the only problem during the election with such groups is that the DNC can't coordinate and can't share their information. So groups would be going through a neighborhood, and then the DNC folk like those involved with the Kerry campaign, would come through, and these people in the neighborhood were talking to two or three folks, and getting really mad at being bugged over and over. So he wished there hadn't been the duplication of efforts.

One positive he saw was the return of the grassroots organizing, people getting together with their neighbors and such, ward captains, precinct captains and the like. I brought up Howard again, and he nodded.

We talked about the various third party candidates and how some folks were upset during a local race that a Green candidate had taken votes from a Dem candidate, as their stances were almost identical. I commented that of course the Green had a right to run, so it was stupid of folks to cry that "if only so and so hadn't been there, our guy woulda won." DNC man commented that the Greens will only get votes enough to win if the Dems go bye bye. Or, I added, if the Dems moved more toward the Green stance so that Greens would feel more at home.

One thing he couldn't get was why, when the Wisconsin Dems had their convention in Oshkosh, that the Greens were picketing them as opposed to the Republicans.

I commented that it rather reminded me of Nader during the 2004 campaign, in that he'd go after Kerry way more often than he went after Bush. And now he's calling for Bush's impeachment, which I said seemed a bit late.

As much as anything, he said, that highlighted the schism between those factions on the left.

Why would the Green Party be more angry at the Democratic Party than they are the Republicans?

Comments, complaints, agreements, expletives?

[lvx35]

1. I think the populist strategy sounds good.

We've become silly if we put these frilly fringe causes front and center and forget about core economic justice and well being of the working class. It sounds good.

Regarding the greens, for the most part, I say screw em. Lets listen to their complaints for valid ones, but anybody who attacks the Dems over the Repukes and calls themselves liberal is seriously screwed up. They attack the dems probably because they see our tolerance and kindness and consider it weakness, and they are afraid to attack Bush so they attack the weakness. These people think any kind of compromise is wrong, they are little Hitlers and they can't stand the fact that the democratic party is bigger than their little pet causes.

[LittleClarkie]

2. A friend use to say that he only criticized something

if he thought it was redeemable. Of course he was talking about radio stations, but I think it's applicable.

Maybe the Greens consider the Repubs too far gone, but they see the Dems as close enough to "save" shall we say. But then we'd be Greens. Some of us don't wanna be Greens, or we WOULD be Greens, you know?

[lvx35]

11. Good point.

I just saw the remake of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which made me also see the original. The Greens remind me of Veruca Salt, the little girl who screams at her daddy to get her things, and says "I want it now!" and her dad complies. I want $12 minimum wage now! I want comprehensive animal rights now! yada yada. Nevermind the fact that these causes will lose us the election.
Anyway, the point is that the greens look at dems as veruca salt looks at her daddy. She screams her demands to us, but we bend to them at our peril.

[Gloria]

9. Gore surged with the populist message after the Dem Convention

in 2000.

We need it again NOW!

[Eloriel]

3. Because they expect more from the Dems

You KNOW what you get from a Repug (i.e., screwed); you expect people to be on YOUR side if they're Dem. When they're not, it's a worse betrayal.

[LittleClarkie]

4. I found it interesting that he saw populist and liberal as being at odds

with one another, as if populist issues were losing out to interest groups, perhaps.

Which would explain why Howard is not a liberal, I suppose.

[saracat]

5. And that is the whole reason I couln't support Dean, though I though his

campaign seemed tremendous in the begginning. But I won't support a conservative Dem. Kerry had a liberal track record and I do continue to believe he won. I think if we take the DNC guys suggestions we may as well vote Republican.

[LittleClarkie]

6. But can you be both populist and liberal?

Are they opposed?

I'm thinking this guy was looking for a balance. I don't think pushing for health care or better minimum wage means that we "might as well vote Republican."

But there are also times when I wonder how populist Dean is. I can't say, considering I haven't given him a good staring at, not as good a gander as I gave Kerry, anyway.

[Adelante]

7. We can, LC, be both

As Democrats, we should be looking at pols and asking if their policies and and basic beliefs represent the core Democratic agenda, not what faction they belong to. Judge each one individually, not whether they're this kind of Dem or that kind of Dem. We should treat each other the same way. I think we won't have a Democratic Party left, never mind win elections, unless there is peace across the political spectrum that makes up the entire party.

[LittleClarkie]

8. Which is why I think this guy was saying

we need to support our constituencies and all the issues we're dealing with, but maybe shuffle which ones we feature.

[ClassWarrior]

14. No doubt. That's only smart politics.

NGU.

[saracat]

10. Well, when the ideas that are "reshuffled " are core issues

such as choice and civil rights I have a problem. BTW I think you can be both a liberal and a populist but I am not sure that conservative Dems are either! I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater but if Paul Hackett taught us anything at all, it is that Dems must emphatically state what they think. NO pussyfooting. If Bush is an Ahole , that is what you call him. I happen to think that applies to everything.The Democratic Party represents a point of view and we should not change it but we should state it clearly and not deviate. Example:We are pro choice.End of discussion.

[ClassWarrior]

15. If P. Hackett taught us anything at all, it's that what matters most...

...are core VALUES, not "issues." We need to lead with our values, and the positions on the issues will flow naturally from those. If we believe in personal freedom and mutual responsiblilty, for instance, choice and civil rights are the obvious responses.

NGU.

[JNelson6563]

12. There is some proven results for this strategy

As far as the Greens going after the Dems harder than the R's, it is an age old thing.

They are competing with Dems,not R's. One quick way to achieve an image of legitimacy for a new group is for them to loudly criticize the old group. If the old group is good there is no reason for the new group to exist.

I thought the thoughts from the DNC person were very interesting, thanks for posting.

Julie

[ClassWarrior]

13. Progressive issues ARE populist issues. I think your friend was...

...seeing things thru glasses with Radical RW frames. Progressives, as I've said many times before, just have to reframe better. Have you read "Don't Think of an Elephant," LC? If not, I'll be glad to loan you mine. Or you can pick a copy up at the Peace Action Center for $10, and profits go to the center.

NGU.