Is it possible the we (the USA) aren't the good guys anymore?

[Bluesplayer]

When did that happen, and why are we really just realizing it now? Are the Irag Abu Ghraib photos and videos that the pentagon is fighting to keep secret really as bad as they've been described? Do we really have a president that the rest of the world fears more than terrorism?

I sure hope that the world will quickly forgive us for bush.

[Vickers]

1. We're still the good guys...we just have some fuckups in charge

for a little while. It'll get better if we all work hard.

[Goldmund]

2. I think that's naive

No country is ever "the good guys" because the power structures of every country value power and resources over human life.

That is especially true for countries as powerful as the US.

Before Abu Ghraib there was slavery, Vietnam, McCarthy, economic conquests, secret CIA death squads in Central America and Africa, etc, etc.

[bvar22]

17. The only thing I can find GOOD in that context is:

*the US eventually outlawed slavery and eventually passed Civil Rights legislation

*McCarthy was eventually recognized for what he was, and discredited

*The US eventually stopped killing the Vietnamese, and left them to their own destiny

*Jimmy Carter made a heroic effort with much national support to END secret death squads and covert disruption of soverign nations

*AbuGharib and the Torture Policies of Bush*/Republicans is being decried nationally


I'm not making excuses for the abuses, but prior to the bush* (Reagan?)administration, our system seemed to respond to the drive for good that exists in most Human Beings.
There is still hope in spite of the horrible regressions of the bush*/republicans.

[stopbush]

3. Unfortunately, *'s crimes will have the opposite effect with the

rest of the world. Rather than "quickly forgiving us" after *, I believe the world will take a cold hard look at the entire history of this country and stop giving us a pass for the genocide, racism and evil that we have perpetrated on the world. It will only get worse as the EU, India & China emerge as the real economic superpowers in the world. Think of the still-simmering resentment/derision that Americans direct at Japan and Germany for WWII 60 years after the fact (the butt of Hogan's Hero-type jokes, the distrust of Asians in general) and you have a portend of how this country is going to be regarded by the rest of the world for the next 50 years.

We are quite beyond repair and redemption at this point.

[havocmom]

4. Clue: It's NOT our freedoms they hate, it's the policies and the greed

We best be showing the rest of the world that the junta does NOT represent American values. We best be doin that quick!

[obxhead]

5. we were good guys???

Like that time we helped all the indians..... never mind I don't feel like writing it all out.

[HughBeaumont]

6. Based on history, I don't think we were EVER good guys. n/t

[SonofMass]

14. I second this!

[Eloriel]

7. Where foreign policy is concerned, we haven't been the good guys

for a very long time (after WW2, I think) -- not COMPLETELY "that good guys," that is, with some redeeming factors thrown in as saving grace. Of course, it could be argued now we're even worse by an order of magnitude, so that is a change. ANd it happened with Bush, starting literally Day 1 of his administration when he cut off funding for women's health clinics around the world if they even mentioned abortion to their patients, no matter what. (Women are so expendable, dontcha know?)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. NO empire has EVER been "the good guys".

I use to say that even the least evil of empires is still evil.

[cleveramerican]

9. our high-minded ideals will be lost.....

and all that history will remember is our brutality. W is the new strongman in Iraq

[1956]

10. None of us are "Good"

But Kerry woulda been a lot better at trying to mend our broken image. Or Gore, you know the real winners!

[DemoTex]

11. America has ceded its role as the last best hope of mankind .. Doctorow

The Unfeeling President

By E.L. Doctorow

I fault this president for not knowing what death is. He does not suffer the death of our 21-year-olds who wanted to be what they could be. On the eve of D-Day in 1944 General Eisenhower prayed to God for the lives of the young soldiers he knew were going to die. He knew what death was. Even in a justifiable war, a war not of choice but of necessity, a war of survival, the cost was almost more than Eisenhower could bear.

But this president does not know what death is. He hasn't the mind for it. You see him joking with the press, peering under the table for the weapons of mass destruction he can't seem to find, you see him at rallies strutting up to the stage in shirt sleeves to the roar of the carefully screened crowd, smiling and waving, triumphal, a he-man.

He does not mourn. He doesn't understand why he should mourn. He is satisfied during the course of a speech written for him to look solemn for a moment and speak of the brave young Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

But you study him, you look into his eyes and know he dissembles an emotion which he does not feel in the depths of his being because he has no capacity for it. He does not feel a personal responsibility for the 1,000 dead young men and women who wanted to be what they could be.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

.

In other words, we are totally fucked.

[NMDemDist2]

16. DemoTex, please review the rules on posting copyrighted material

"Copyrights: Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with a link back to the original."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

Thank you.

[Doo_Revolution]

12. Sure its possible!

It happened the day the coup took over. Go watch Star Wars Episode III, then it will all become completely clear!

:smoke:

[dbt]

13. It's not only possible, it was deliberate.

bu$hco does not give Shit One how this country is perceived around the world, as long as a few cronies get obscenely rich(er).

[wli]

15. we never were

[Ksec]

18. Its not the country, its the asses running it.

The people have been getting fuked over by the gov and its getting worse.

They have turned against us. They no longer care what we think because they get corporate money. They work for the rich . They outsource our futures to slave wage countries. They build communist countries into superpowers for the profit of a few shareholders. They ignore us and enact trade laws that will further erode our futures. They ignore us, as companies cut wages and retirements while the CEOs get millions for doing it. Its a fkin mess and I for one am pissed off about the direction. Even our own Democrats have begun acting like corporate whores. We need a change . A big change. It wont happen with votes. Itll happen when we the people get fed up enough and demand it to change.