I know Lou Dobbs has his fans on DU...but he's making me SICK!

[KoKo]

Focusing on "Illegals" when THEY are the ones dying and working for low wages as they build our MCMansions and even our "low income Apartment Buildings" here in America when Tom Delay and Abramoff and the rest of the "TOTAL CORRUPTION" needs coverage? Makes me :puke:


Let him rant and rave on...when I know that here in NC many "Illegals and Legals" are dying in Construction Accidents and it's not even being dealt with by our "Health and Human Safety Forces...or National Department of Labor."

We were happy to open our borders to "illegals" and others when it "suited our purpose" but Lou Dobbs and others want to sit there and villify these people who built what everyone who has participated in the Housing Bubble are rushing into buy for inflated prices...with "no money down."

NOW...we want to get RID OF THEM...because Housing Bubble is going to Burst?

Isn't this the HISTORY OF AMERICA...BRING IN THE IMMIGRANTS AND THEN THROW SHIT IN THEIR FACE FOR WHAT THEY DID FOR US IN ALLOWING US TO LIVE BEYOND OUR MEANS. The ENGLISH,SCOTS,IRISH,CHINESE,JAPANESE,GERMANS,ITALIANS,and now the MEXICANS.

Let's not forget that this country was built on the blood of Native Americans that we plundered, raped and stole land from.

What a bloodthirsty culture we are. I thought we could do better given that most came here because of their OWN persecution...but I was so wrong...:-(

[DemInDistress]

1. sorry i have to disagree

This good ship "America" is sinking and sinking fast.Why cant local people get jobs in local stores? because 90% of our strip shops would rather pay low wages to illegals who cant really complain,hell in mexico they probably couldn't make 2$ an hour..I say its time to stop the invasion and weed out the thousands who don't belong here...

[dbonds]

2. You describe one of the reasons it should be raised as an issue.

I am against ANY exploitation of labor or talents. Because they are allowed to come in illegally they can be exploited. The robber barons want illegals in this country for the cheap labor pool. It is bad for the illegals to be be 'allowed' to work for slave wages and to be put in dangerous conditions. The public doesn't get a break on the price of the products. And the only ones that gets anything out of it are the company owners.

[NMDemDist2]

5. bingo! and the "coyotes" who bring them (the illegals) and charge

tons of $$$ and leave them in the desert to die or force them to live 40-50 in a 2 bedroom house then work for nothing to "pay off" the transport costs from Mexico or where ever.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned is the security risk of having borders so open ANYONE can slip across. Some folks in this world would like to do Americans harm, the more Americans the better.

While I am steadfastly against profiling, there are people who have vowed to kill Americans in any way possible. Our borders are an open door for people who may have mayham on their minds.

[EVDebs]

7. The law isn't being enforced. $10,000 fine each offense hiring illegal

workers...THAT would staunch the illegal immigration in a hurry. But in the long run Mexico needs a revolution if the problems are going to be solved.

Too much corruption in PRI, and too much corruption in Republican and Democratic parties with help from the Dept of Labor and the phoney visa programs it operates.

It's all coming to a head under 'homeland security'.

[McCamy Taylor]

3. Lou Dobbs attack on "Illegals" is REALLY attack on rival GE/NBC

GE is a manufacturer which outsources where it can and which almost certainly uses illegals whenever possible when it cant outsource.

So, when Lou Dobbs seems to be standing up for the American worker, dont be fooled. He is really just taking stabs at CNN's main competitor in the 24 Hour News business, the other non-Faux News Network, MSNBC.

For real. I dont make this stuff up. Ever see MSNBC talk about the problems with outsourcing or illegal workers?

[lvx35]

4. I don't have a McMansion!

And good work is too hard to find. Illegal labor is just a way for big corporations to make more moeny, exploit the poor, and keep American workers underemployed.
I agree with Dobbs here. The fact is that America doesn't have an obligation to help mexicans, liberate iraqis, etc. etc. American government has an obligation to the American people, period.

[Daphne08]

6. I don't blame people from other countries trying to come here,

but I do blame the people, businesses and corporations who take advantage of them, for in doing so, they are taking advantage of ALL Americans.

I'm sorry, but I'm an American first.

[earth mom]

8. FYI-Both Americans and Mexicans are being EXPLOITED. nt

[GOPNotForMe]

9. If they are entering the county illegally, I see nothing wrong with...

..."illegals." That's what they are - ILLEGAL.

Like it or not (I, for one, like it), our country has RULES for proper immigration. These rules should be enforced - for everyone's sake, including the illegals. Do you think they get adequate protections when they can't even go to the authorities to report work abuse? Of course not. Do you think it's helping anyone to have 10+ million people living in our country that no one can account for? How is our country any more secure when we don't even know who's living here?

Bottom line: We have immigration laws, they should be enforced, end of story.

[kodi]

10. Koko, i love you but i disagree with your remarks about lou dobbs

Dobbs is an apologist for the ruling class but even he sees that what america needs is a strong middle class, and that middle class is being eroded by the cheap labor Republicans who are pitting poor native Anglos against illegal migrant Latinos and Latinas.

Look, talking with rhetorical flourish about...

"This country was built on the blood of Native Americans that we plundered, raped and stole land from."

....may be good for the soul, but it moves us nowhere forward in this situation.

The borders are sieves, the hospitals, by law have to administer to illegal migrants and it is forcing hospitals nationwide to close their doors because they can not handle the influx of illegal immigrants who come in and use services designed for American citizens.

I am an American, and while that may well make me an ogre in the eyes of some, i want what is best for America. if that makes me, like Charles Lindbergh an "America firster" so be it. I do believe the US is that "Shining City on a Hill," yet we have to take care of our own people first...triage is the word of the day here....save what can be saved, pray for the rest.

My brother was a border patrol agent in new mexico for 4 years. He told me that stopping illegal immigration would take building a 50 foot high wall with a moat full of alligators from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean to stop illegal immigration from Mexico.

I do not dismiss those people for yearning for a better life, but unless you are personally willing to bed down a family of chiapas refugees in your living room, your call for the reprobation of lou Dobbs borders on hypocrisy.

[KoKo]

15. Those people are here because they can get work and the Real Estate

interests here in my "Boom Area" make sure they get them in, cheap, and let them work for nothing. Instead of going after "illegals" why doesn't Dobbs go after the Real Estate Interests (Including GE's Capital Mortgage Company they just sold off fearing the Bubble Burst) for bringing them here.

What the Repugs do is always blame the people who are caught in an economic vice rather than the those who control the vice which is squeezing us all to death...blue collar, white collar and illegals and the rest. We Democrats need to go after the greedy Corporatists who pay their CEO's, CFO's, COO's and the Boards of Directors MILLIONS of Dollars in salary that just was done before the booming late 90's. The difference between the average workers salary and the Operating officers has more than quadrupled since Bush came into power and thats on top of the huge increases in the 90's. THEY are the ones causing this we and the illegals are the victims.

But, I thank you for your reply. I think maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post as to why I was so angry. :hi:

[barb162]

19. There are plenty of American construction workers going jobless

while the illegals are getting hired in their place for way less in wages. Until every American has a job, I say no more outsourcing, no more illegals, etc. The construction companies are doing a great job in breaking unions by hiring the illegals

[kodi]

20. spot on, its american job loss and union busting

my next door neighbor, an independent building contractor has lost 50% of his business due to illegal workers.

he can not compete if he has to pay his gang $12-15/hour, when a competiter hiring illegals pays them $7/hour and are happy to get it.

koko is correct in that the profits move to the large corporations who profit from the diference in wages.

so, in affect lou dobbs IS railing against the large corporations in this situation.

[Telly Savalas]

21. Why doesn't a Mexican who's been working his ass off all day...

deserve treatment from a hospital? They can't be a drain on the system if it's their labour which generates the wealth upon which that system is based.

If a 50 ft. fence with a moat along the border is necessary to stop illegal immigration, then that indicates that perhaps our immigration laws need to be normalized. Or are you suggesting that we start construction on this fence?

If that smarmy fuck Lou Dobbs is truly a champion of the American worker, why doesn't he dedicate as much time on his show to issues like corporate union-busting, universal healthcare, or a European style 35 hour work week as he does to villifying undocumented workers?

The fact that there are rampant violations of labour laws like worker safety codes and the minimum wage is a huge problem which does need addressing. Rather than keeping the focus on that, Dobbs and his ilk scapegoat the victims in order to promote some bizarro xenophobic crypto-fascism.

[kodi]

25. did i say he didn't? no, i said US hospitals can't handle the load

but you are off on a tangent, the majority of the illegals using US hospitals are not paying taxes to the communities they are in that go to the funding of the hospitals. the rest of us are.

"nomalizing" immigration by opening the borders is as sane as allowing people to drive 100mph on the interstate because some people exceed the speed limit.

put up a 50 foot high wall? yeah, damned right i think so.

btw: dobbs is excoriating big business for its pension fund bailouts, and lack of support for health benefits.

but if you are so all keen on the brotherhood of man, document for the rest of us just which and how many illegal immigrants you are housing, feeding, and clothing in your home at your own cost.

go ahead big guy show us your compassion by illustrating your personal sacrifices towards those with less than you have.

[barb162]

35. Are you saying most illegals pay state and federal income tax?

I bet they don't. Many Public hospitals get paid through insurance, state and county taxes. Private hospitals usually get insurance. Many millions of American CITIZENS in this country working their asses off all day long have no insurance and can't get treatment in a hospital. Why should an illegal? As to normalizing things, here's how: all the millions of illegals should be forced to go back to their home countries and then the American citizens can get their jobs back. That's normal.

[QC]

11. "Our" McMansions?

Sorry, no McMansion here. I work for a living.

[KoKo]

16. They are building them all over in my area of NC. And, the people who

live in them work, too. I don't live in one and work also. It's a fact of life that there are many CEO's/COO's/CFO's and folks who are making money from software companies that have been bought out where they made a bundle and folks who made money from "golden parachutes" when their company was merged or bought out. These are the top people and many who made it on their own. Not that they are all crooks ...they are just reaping rewards from the "current system." They buy a small house with a view tear it down and build a Tuscan Manor, or French Country House in it's place. These houses dwarf their neighbors until more folks with big bucks buy the neighbor's house and tear that down too. If one lives on a golf course, or water property...then you know you are a target for "tear down."

And, they are building NEW McMansions on farmland, where I live. It's a big problem for folks like me who are "preservationists" and love historical houses and "old things." It breaks my heart to see what's going on. There's so much waste of resources and materials in these tear downs and in taking over family farms that aren't profitable because of the growth here of "Agri-Business" with the giant Hog and Chicken Prisons.

[union_maid]

31. They're doing it everywhere here

Never mind golf courses. They're building McMansions in what where blue collar neighborhoods two years ago. Our neighborhood, which was made up of old bungalows and small to medium tract houses now has five McMansions and a lot of older houses being made over as McMansions.

[KoKo]

12. In NC where I live ...they are tearing downNICE houses to build

"McMansions." Beautiful houses built maybe 15 to 20 years ago that were "top of the line" being bulldozed because they are on a golf course and now considered "Premium Property with a View." Bulldozed down with Mediterranian or French Country House Knock Off's being built in their place.

Who is doing this? Real Estate Speculators with "cool sounding names and LLC's after their names on the "For Sale" signs in front of these mansions.

Speculation, and REIT's are in the Market. Buying Low and Renovating and then Selling High. It's going on all over America in the Cities and Urban areas where folks still have a job and can afford to ramp up the Credit Cart Debt.

If you live near the Ocean or Mountains...you know what I'm talking about, unless you don't get out and ride around to see what's being built.

In the meantime, their children go to school in "makeshift, modular school buildings." The "McMansion Folks" don't want to pay taxes for their kids to have proper structures to learn in. Although many do send their kids to the "wait list" Private Schools or the burgeoning Christian Schools in the area who are receiving or in anticipation of the Chimp's "Faith Based Initiative Schools."

I'm in a Red State where thousands move in daily because of the climate, job opportunites and cheap tax base ..relative to the more Red State tax base in other parts of the country where folks sacrifice for better education, culture, arts funding for their kids and their community.

Where I live, life is only good if you love Football, Basketball, go to Church regularly and SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT "your rights and invading Iraq."

[wiley]

13. Excuse me, but you omit one huge group

Africans and other dark skinned peoples who either immigrated, or who were taken as slaves. Tobacco, cotton, sugar to make rum.





:banghead:

[KoKo]

17. You mean the African's brought here as Slaves who built the great

Plantations all over the South? The ones who farmed the rice and cotten fields and were craftsmen and carpenters? Who cooked and fed the plantation owners? The ones the wealth of the South before Civil war was built by?

I didn't forget them...Retyped my post to get the Scots in...and they got left out on the retype. I would edit but the time has expired.

Thanks for noticing that. Sorry, that it looked like I left out intentionally. I missed the Swedes and the Germans and many other groups, too. :-(

[chaska]

14. Illegals are bad for the country and our party.

Period.

[drfresh]

28. Exactly. There is

Immigration and then there is illegal immigration: One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

/gives Lou props for talking straight.

[tabasco]

18. Illegal aliens are being scapegoated for the crummy economy.

It's a problem but Lou Dobbs acts like it's the main reason things are fucked up right now. I think it is scapegoating and a smokescreen to protect the corrupt administration. Plus I think the republicans always fall back on the racism issue in times of trouble. They love to use race to divide & conquer.

[Alcibiades]

22. Race isn't the issue...

...immigration status is. I understand why you don’t think it’s a problem. You live in Oakland, Maryland, which is 97.6% Caucasian, and therefore probably not full of illegal immigrants from Mexico and Latin America. Like the original poster, I’m a North Carolinian. We led the nation in the growth of the illegal immigrant population over the last decade. During the last campaign, someone suggested that, with so many Hispanics around, we should try to register them to vote. I suggested we do a baseline study on existing voter registration records to find out about what percentage of the population here was eligible to vote. Using the BoE data, I found only two declared Hispanics in our precinct of 2,000. I then figured that Hispanics might be under-reporting, so I went through manually looking for Hispanic surnames. I found a total of seven, including the two I found earlier. Given that our neighborhood has become about 20-30% Hispanic, this strongly suggests most of our Hispanics are non-citizens.

Illegal immigration is a massive social problem. Illegal immigrants don’t really want to come here—they would be happier in their home countries, but things are so abysmal there that they do everything they can to get here. Many of the people who hire them don’t pay payroll taxes, so overall they are a net burden on government. Under no Child Left Behind, schools lose money if any ethnic group fails to make adequate yearly progress. You want to make a school district look bad? Drop the children of people who don’t speak the language and who don’t themselves have a grammar-school education in that district and see those scores plummet.

If opposition to illegal immigration is racist, I think a lot of people are going to become racist, real soon. If you are so much in favor of it, perhaps you should let a dozen illegal immigrants from Mexico move in next door to you. Before you flame me, I will add that that happened to my sister while she was living on the Eastern Shore of your fine state. About a dozen Mexican men and one woman (who was married to one of them) from South Carolina moved in. Since most of these fellows were evidently used to having women pick up after them (and their wives were all in Mexico, save for the one South Carolina trailer lady) the place soon became a sty. The backyard was overrun with chickens and goats. In a couple of years, they had literally destroyed a cute little Victorian. Why? They knew they would be moving on in a couple of years anyway. They were not part of the community, felt no need to integrate into it, and had nothing invested.

Maybe we don’t need to make this a big campaign issue. Policy-wise, however, something needs to be done.

[tabasco]

23. Show me where I said I am in favor of illegal immigration.

SHOW ME - I'M WAITING.

Don't go on a rant on me because I never said illegal aliens were not a problem. And don't assume I am a stupid person that cannot comprehend problems beyond those in my own community.

Are you too obtuse to understand that people live in different places at different times? I happen to be a native of New Mexico.

Show me where I posted that I am in favor of illegal immigration. SHOW ME - I AM WAITING.

If you don't recognize that the illegal alien issue is used as a race issue, I can only point out your naivete.

I say increase the penalties. Severely. That would go a long way to ending the loss of jobs.

You better learn to communicate and debate without attributing false ideas and words to others. That's violating the rules and just displays your own inadequacies.

[Alcibiades]

26. Not a rant

Firstly, I agree with you about the Steelers, and on the subject of increasing the penalties for employing illegal immigrants. And, no, I'm not too obtuse to understand that people move frequently in this country. Nor do I assume that you are a stupid person who is unable to understand problems beyond those in your community.

The very first thing you wrote in your post was:

"It's a problem"

But then you wrote:

"but Lou Dobbs acts like it's the main reason things are fucked up right now."

By which I take it that you mean that it's not nearly so much of a problem as Lou Dobbs made it out to be.

Then you wrote:

"I think it is scapegoating and a smokescreen to protect the corrupt administration."

Which further serves to minimize your initial assessment that "It's a problem."

"Plus I think the republicans always fall back on the racism issue in times of trouble."

Again, here you present the issue of illegal immigration as a chimera, implying that it's not a real issue, just one that is symbolic. (I think a better example of that sort of issue would be flag burning.)

So perhaps you can forgive me for taking away the impression that you wrote that illegal immigration isn't a problem, when 95% of your verbiage was dedicated to the proposition that it isn't a problem. I had meant to say that we should talk concretely about the problems illegal immigration poses for our communities, rather than thinking about the issue in racial terms, or even to accuse the other side of thinking about it in racial terms. We cannot have it both ways: illegal immigration cannot be a serious issue when we bring it up, and nothing more than an appeal to people's racism when our opponents do.

Naïveté? Perhaps. As for the proposition that "You better learn to communicate and debate without attributing false ideas and words to others," I suppose that I had better, but then again, it has proved to be such a successful tactic for the Republicans that we at least ought to consider it.

As for my "own inadequacies," vanity is one of them, so I fail to see any others.

[napi21]

24. You are misinterpreting Lou's position on immigration.

He has never said immigration is wrong! I listen to him EVERY NIGHT and he is always down on the people who employ ILLEGEL immigrants and the people who employ them!!!!

You are complaining about the wrong people!

Complain about Shrub, who wants to give a break to those who employ illegals, not legale immigrantsm but illegal ones!

Don't you understand? The employers are abusing these people! Do you really think they pay them what it would cost to hire someone with a green card? Yu need to complain to or about the right offenders in this issue and is't not Lou Dobbs!

[Leilani]

27. Lou Dobbs is the only person on TV standing up for ALL workers

The stagnant wages affecting the lower & middle class are a direct result of supply & demand. When there is an endless supply of workers willing to accept any wage, as illegals are, our workers are hurt.

And the fact that many of the people being hurt are Legal Mexican-Americans & Blacks, people at the bottom of the wage scale, is not good for Americans.

There are no longer low wage entry level jobs available, especially for kids as summer jobs. This summer was the worst on record for employment of students.

Blame Mexico for its lousy system for its own citizens. Illegals sending money home, are the second largest source of money for Mexico, exceeded only by oil revenues.

If Dems do not take control of this issue, which is about workers' rights, they will lose again.

Edited to add: Lou Dobbs worked in the fields, alongside Mexicans, to put himself through school. He is NOT a racist, & knows more about this issue than 99% of Americans.

[High Plains]

29. Uh, how about "workers of the world, unite"?

or barring that quaint notion, a guest worker program? Regularize these folks, make their employers pay legal wages, etc. I presume that would have some impact on wage levels.

Shutting off the border is a dream-world notion. Not to mention, I'm not so certain I want to live in a country that surrounds itself with a 50-foot fence.

The problem is structural in the global economy. Capital flows across borders, goods flow across borders, and guess what--people flow across borders. I really don't know what we can do to stop it except to equalize conditions in the US and Mexico.

But hey those damned Meskins are chivos expiatorios muy bueno, no?
That's very good scapegoats for you unilinguists.

[QC]

33. ..."equalize conditions in the US and Mexico..."

Well, that seems to be Bush's goal, now doesn't it?

[SoCalDem]

30. Lou Dobbs is a xenophobe first, foremost and always

Occasionally he steps into a different issue, but even those issues are tinged with "hatred/fear of dark people"..

[GOPNotForMe]

32. And you're getting this from...?

[doc03]

34. The key word is illegal!

The English,Scots,Irish,Chinese,Germans and Italians didn't wade across the Rio Grande in the middle of the night!