Should Oil Become A Publicly Regulated Utility?

[Wizard777]

What do you think? I'm interested in hearing all sides. The Pro, Con, Indifferent, Good, Bad, and the just plain ugly of it. We're seeing the oil industries private take on this public war at the pumps. Now what's your take on this issue?

[Raster]

1. Oil is a resource that belongs to all and belongs to none.

No reason why the texas white-boy petroleum mafia should control it. Nationalize all oil companies and petroleum industries now!!!

[TX-RAT]

3. texas white-boy petroleum mafia ?

You are aware of the other 9 oil producing states?

What about the stock holders?

[ironman202]

6. stock holder? What about the country? Fuck the stock holders.

[TX-RAT]

7. People of every lifestyle have investments in oil

State retirement plans.
Private plans.
Federal plans.
Your wanting to fuck millions of people.
Kinda selfish isn't it?

[Wizard777]

11. There would have to be a government buy out.

Unlesss of course the states use the new eminent domain interpretation to seize the Oil Companies. Talk about a hostile take over. LMAO. But you can bet there would be less casualties than the Hostile take over of Iraq. What was that about selfish? It seem that the only thing the oil companies want to share with America is the bill associated with obtaining the supply. They get 500% to 1000% of the profit from the demand.

[TX-RAT]

13. How soon we forget

Early 90's when oil was trading at 8.30 a barrel, ten states had a major crisis. Tx had to shut down some schools and shuttle kids to neighboring counties. Millions of people in the business or oil related business's were unemployed.

If we were willing to buy out the stock holders and all the independents, i don't have a problem with it.

What about the land owners that own minerals?

[Wizard777]

17. How quickly we remember.

The Gas Crisis HOAX. Created by the oil industry to sweep Reagan/Bush into office. They damn near brought this country to stand still and made a killing doing it. Then when Reagan and Bush are office. Surprize! The oil Companies find several hundred million gallons lost in their own holds. Gas crisis over. All hail Reagan Bush. Reagan and Bush's Response to this massive fraud of the America Consumer. Basically, Opps! You silly knuckleheads. Bwahahahahaha

So how about the fraudulent manipulation of election issues to gain undue influence over American Elections?

[TX-RAT]

20. Gas Crisis HOAX.

Sorry, your going to need to give me more info on that one.

(So how about the fraudulent manipulation of election issues to gain undue influence over American Elections?)

Lets stick with oil, thats what your post was about.

[Wizard777]

29. The Gas Crisis of the Carter Adminstration.

Had nothing to do with an oil shortage or the Carter Administration. It was created by the Oil Companies. After reafan and Bush won the election. They siddenly found several hundred million gallons of oil "lost" in there own holds. It would not suprize me one bit to discover that Bush I hired mercenaries to take the hostages at the American Embassy in Iran. I still sat Bush II hired Al Qaida to chanfe the national subject of 2000 election fraud and election reform. Now we have spent 200 nillion on election reform in Iraq and sweetheart write your own check deals for the oil companies.

I can't stick strictly to oil. Because the oil companies have not. They are now in the business of election, war, and oil. In that order. The first thing America needs to do is regulate them out of the Election and War Businesses. We need to make the oil companies exactly that. Oil Companies. Nothing more and nothing less.

[KansDem]

45. I often wondered about this...

How much oil did the Vietnam War consume and for how many years? And when we finally pulled out in 1975...WHAM! We have an "energy crisis." I would have thought that we would have had an abundance of oil since we weren't needing to fly all those planes, drive all those tanks, and power all those ships, etc.

I thought oil was a "supply and demand" commodity and when the demand dropped following our pullout from THAT war, the supply would increase, but I must have been wrong...

[jdlh8894]

43. Stock Holder

Do you have a 401-k ? If so, then you're probably a stock
holder in one of the major oil companies. 

[Wizard777]

9. You assume risk in buying stock.

Very much like America. The Stock Holders fucked up and trusted a Bush. Last straw war meet the camle's back! As we bury our dead they can bury their worthless stocks. If they are lucky trade them for lesser shares of the new stable utility.

[TX-RAT]

12. "You assume risk in buying stock."

You are correct.

We're talking about millions of peoples retirement plans here, how about just buying them out.

[Wizard777]

19. I would not be against a fair market value buy out.

But I don't think a fair market has ever existed in the oil industry. More a reason for it to be a Utility.

[Wizard777]

8. By international law. It is a natural resource of the State (country)....

it is located in. It is the sole property of that state. Maybe if oil deals were negotiated by the US Diplomatic Corps. We would have less enemies in the M.E.. The Robber Barrons of big oil screw them worse than us. As we have seen they will buy the White House and bomb them for supply. I'm wondering if we quit buying it. Would they start Bombing us to our shock and awe of their true marketing power?

I'll bet if an anlysis were done. We would find that Texas is making more money off of Alaska's Oil than Alaska is.

[TX-RAT]

10. It is a natural resource of the State

Not unless it's state owned land. Most of the minerals are owned by landowners, and leased by the producers.

[Wizard777]

14. No. You must purchase the mineral rights also. It's not automatic.

Also I was talkong about international law. The UN is paterned after America. Except that a Country is a "State" in the world union. That is why Bush hates the UN so much. It's America writ large. It's America on the world level. "We the Peoples of the World." Is how the UN Charter begins. Sound Familiar? What is Bush truely attacking there?

[TX-RAT]

15. Not sure the feds have enough cash to pull this off.

I know the states don't

[Wizard777]

18. Exactly! That is why It must become a Utility.

Exxon is bigger and more powerful than the federal government and Oil is critical to national security. Ambulances and police cars don't move without gas.

Case in point of Exxon power OVER the Federal Government. The EPA Fines for The Valdez. Their reply was, it's too much and we will not pay it. They even rejected the lower offers as being too much. You try that with a traffic ticket. Then come back and tell me how much time you served.

[TX-RAT]

24. How many oil company's do you think there are in the US?

You act as if theres only a couple.

There are thousands of producers in the us scattered over 37 states. All of those states, plus the feds get a piece of every barrel already. Why in the world would they want to operate them too? Who would be responsible for spills and other accidents?

[Wizard777]

25. Operating or Headquartered in the USA?

To give We The People a say in and control of our natural resources and energy consumption. Being a Utility doesn't mean Fovernment Ownership. There are many Privately owned Utilities. It's just that as a utility. They are sibjected to Government refulation and oversight. Right down to how much they can legally charge per unit. That way Ameriac doesn't get stick with 100% the bill for appointing the CEO of Shell Oil as the consultant to the Iraq Oil Ministry. Then keep 500-1000% of the shock and awe profits made from those oil deals. As for the spills and accident. The Government will sau you owe this much and they will pay it or be taken over. None of this we won't pay it's too much Bush Shit that allowed exxon to stick America with their clean up bill.

[TX-RAT]

22. Made a mistake the first time, sorry

There are 37 oil and gas producing states. I was thinking of the top 10.

[sui generis]

2. absolutely yes

in the short term the economy and our current regulatory have no way of changing pricing at the pumps, a fact that will take its harshest toll in the northeast in the colder months of this year. The rest of our economy depends on getting OFF of oil as quickly as possible. As long as oil companies are making extraordinary profits at our expense, they have extraordinary profits to continue to fund an oil economy and no incentive to ever develop non-oil tech or seriously address a declining world supply with increasing global demand.

They laugh in their boardrooms at "grandma millie" and wage war not just on us as consumers but upon the government and state government as consumers as well.

Regardless of whether or not nationalizing oil companies is the right thing to do, it's long past time to address the problem in a meaningful way.

[ibegurpard]

4. Sure

But I'd like to see how that's going to happen in a climate where we are STILL privatizing public services.

[movonne]

Yes...

[mongo]

5. At the very least

Oil should be regulated with a government determined wholsale price for gasoline and diesel and a maximum amount of profit allowed per dollar of sales.

We used to do this with electricity and natural gas.

[VADem11]

16. Maybe

I think it would have mostly positive benfits. The government could also do this for alternative energies since we're going to run out of oil someday.

[Wizard777]

21. Exactly!

Oil is the only form of America's Energy that is not a Public Utility.

[TX-RAT]

23. OK, lets say we nationalized all oil production in the US

What's going to change?
Who's going to operate?
How many new federal or state employees do you think it's going to take to keep things running?
Or would you sub it out for a percentage, and let civilian contractors handle it? We're talking about millions of people here.

[Wizard777]

26. Import as well.

America is going to gain a voice in what is ultimately OUR oil dealings anyway. For God sakes we are in a war that was most envisioned begind teh closed doors of a coporate boardroom, Planed in "Top Secret energy meetings" and enacted with a wolf cry of WMD's in the worlds biggest false alarm. When the Oil indistry van trump We rhe People in the use of our Military. The oil industry needs to strict Government Controls. The military has not run muck. It is the oil Indistry. Inyil they are brought down to size. We the people cannot possivly control out Government as demanded by our Constitution. O' Hell the President can't even control them. They have become Satan on the Mount. We will give you all the world if you will just bow down and worship us. That is the point where I say, Fuck 'em!

[bemildred]

27. Should something that important be left in private hands? nt

[Mountainman]

28. No, the high price of oil will lead us to find alternative forms of energy

We will never look for a substitute for fossil fuel until it becomes economically feasible. The price of gasoline is taking us closer and closer to the point where consumers will demand more fuel efficient cars and cars that don't require gasoline. The big cars of the sixties and seventies went the way of the dinosaurs with the gasoline shortages back then. The same thing will happen now if we let oil go as high as the greedy oil people want it to.

[Wizard777]

30. Would we be finance the purchase of the eternal light bulb.?

G.E. has already done this. The bought and suppressed a patent for a light bulb that will not burn out. It would have killed their light bulb market. 1 lamp would equal 1 light bulb. End of market. So why wouldn'y the oil companies do the exact same thing? Buy the patent and supress it. Lets say you have the invented and patented inexhaustable fuel supply. surely uoi would sell it to me for 100 billion. Wouldn't you? What about 200 Billion? More money that you and even your grandchildren could ever spend living your wildest dreams in the lap of luxury for the rest of your lives. Thsi si my also my final offer. My next offer is to the UD government to seize your patent. It will put those milluons of people TX-Rat is talking about out of work and on welfare. Thsi si a matter of national job securuty. Nevermind. You had your chance. I'll just have Bush take it from you and sell it to me for 1 legally binding dollar. SCOTUS now says that he can do that.

[Mountainman]

31. Well we could come up with all kinds of scenarios like the SCOTUS

will not allow oil to be regulated.

I seems to me a natural occurrence that people will look for alternatives when it becomes economically feasible. They may not find them but they will look.

In my perfect world, the government would compete with private industry to make such fuel efficient autos and sell them at prices the people can afford thus forcing the auto industry to jump on the band wagon. I think in the interest of the common good, the government should do what private industry won't do because they can manipulate the supply of things. Germany built the Volkswagen and Roosevelt started the CCC to build infrastructure. Lets do the same.

[Wizard777]

32. With Regulation we have assurances. Without it we are at their mercy.

Lets say that these record profits they are making right now is seed money fo rteh exploration of renewable feuls. With regulation we can do that. We can even say .50 of every dollar earned must be spent on this. With out it. They will look into it.... after corporate Bonuses are paid.....and 1,000,000 Americans have died in the Battle for the last drop of oil on earth. We can't trust our future to their greed driven, ahem, benevolence. It's basically Reaganomics. The govermnet looks after the oil coporations and the oil corporation look out for themselves. Screw the little guy! We'll sell his ass at will. Because we owned it before he was born. Oil is a Craddle to Grave Megalith. They had designs on your money and spent it before you were born and you will die trying to pay that debt they created for you.

[Mountainman]

33. Regulation is good if there is a monopoly and with oil it almost is a

monopoly. I just would like to see us not use oil since it has always been a reason to go to war. Oil is like the blood in your veins. A country has to have it. If one nation gets control all the others will have to fight them. With out the need for oil, there is no reason to kill for it.

[Wizard777]

36. Critical to the maintenance of human life. Is also regulated.

Here in Maryland it is illegal to disconnect Gas and Electric for nonpayment during the winter months. The result of this legislation. The utilities didn't belly up and we no longer have elderly people being found frozen to death in their apartments. Less house fires and associated deaths from using candles for light or even heat. When Corporations kill for a buck it's still Murder Inc. But you can only jail the proxy or officers. Not the corporation.

[kodi]

34. all energy source companies should be publicly regulated by the state

oil, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, even pig shit methane producers

[many a good man]

35. You want Big Oil to regulate itself?

Govt = Big Oil

[Wizard777]

37. Catch 22's can be Broken.

but first you have to be able to make 2+2=4. Bye bye 22! Four is more manageable than 22. They Function off of circular logic. Getting oil out of the election and war Business will break that viscous cycle.

[Copperred]

39. THIS IS A GREAT GREAT IDEA

KICK

TIME TO NATIONALIZE ALL US DOMESTIC OIL & GAS COMPANIES OVER A DESIGNATED SIZE.


THIS SHOULD BE A MAJOR MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY AFTER THE DLC IS OBLITERATED

[Wizard777]

40. Why wouldn't the DLC jump on board if this is the will of the individuals

that form this party? Also I personally wouldn't say, "nationalize" right now. Just publicly regulate. That could be state or federal. My concerns with federal regulation would be placing revenue in a general fund. Then hokus pocus and vola'! Texas now has all of Alaska's oil money. That is if Alaska even wants to drill?

To disillute the power the oil companies have amassed over the federal government. Maybe state regulation would be the better way to start. Instead of one centralized and therefore easily corruptable target. Big Oil can battle our myriad of 50 states. Of course with the fed looking over the states shoulder for any corruption.

[leesa]

38. Absolutely. But good luck with that when our country is owned by the oil

barons. Look at how Venezuela has turned itself around by kicking out the oil bloodsuckers and other corporate whores.

[Wizard777]

41. Looking at Iraq. I have to ask. What do you mean "when?"

Why would we not guard 288 Tons of HDE and guard the oil ministry offices instead? Why was OPEC allowed into Iraq before the UN? Whay is the primary objective of O.I.L.

This would be a battle to TAKE BACK our government from big oil. We can syaty with the prosecution ofthat bastard that keeps saying "My Government." Because that's not what my copy of the deed says.

[Copperred]

42. A Health Kick!!

kick...

[DemoTex]

44. Absolutely. And nationalize the airlines and Big Pharma too.

Big Pharma and Big Oil are into obscene profits. The airlines are the victims of chronic mismanagement and Big Oil's rapacious pricing.

[TX-RAT]

51. Don't forget the Movie industry, and the music industry, and Sports

Hell lets just nationalize every thing.
Then where will we be?
What will we have accomplished?
Maybe we'll get a chance to by rice cookers at a discount.
You want the price of gas to go up, just let the feds take over the oil industry, their known for their efficiency.

[TheDonkey]

46. Wouldn't solve the bigger issues. Government should be concerned with

making energy independence profitable and important for American businesses.

[Copperred]

48. price gouging is the problem

its about price gouging....nothing is going to stop peak oil...oil & gas is going to be with us at least another 50 years....just quite expensive...and the profits that are being made have nothing to do with the end consumers getting what they need...

[oldhippie]

50. Price Controls can fix that........

It's worked before.........

[oldhippie]

47. Yeah, and set a max price.....

Yeah, and then have the Gov't set the maximum price of gasoline back to about $1.00 a gallon, where it oughta' be. That'll fix it.

[growlypants]

49. I feel that since the auto industry wont SUPPLY US with an

altrenative to gasoline powered cars (hybrids are STILL gas powered and there is only a couple of them available) than YES it should be regulated. They have FORCED US to use gasoline.

[rman]

52. should anything that is relevant to the common good

be publicly regulated?

i'd say so yes.

But obviously with this administration of corporate cronies, there's no point to it really.

[TumorSupressor]

53. To me its a no brainer... definately yes.