And after we pull all of our troops out of Iraq... then what?

[Writer]

We wrecked a nation of people, many of whom have died. Yet what do you say to someone who questions simply yanking the troops out? Won't that lead to more chaos for the Iraqi people? Civil war? Many, many more deaths? Shouldn't we attempt, at least, to stabilize the nation before we go?

What do you say to that person?

[Inland]

1. "I voted for Gore." nt

[Writer]

3. He he

:thumbsup:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. they have several stops on the way home.

iran
syria
Lebanon
France

[I Have A Dream]

9. Yep -- my thoughts exactly.

Love the France comment. If they could get away with it, they probably would stop in France as well. (How sad that we've gotten to this point with countries who are our friends.)

[niceypoo]

4. Our presence destablizes Iraq

We never should have went, what happens when we leave is inevitable. We need to leave the middle east all together. We need to spend like a trillion over 10 years to develop hydrogen fuel technology and cut oil consumption by 2/3 in 20 years.

[bemildred]

5. We've been trying to stabilize the place for 2+ years now.

We are the problem. There is no chance of improvement while the occupation continues.
(And I voted for Gore.)

[I Have A Dream]

6. I don't know the answer to this, and this is something that is important..

to discuss here, in my opinion. I have several problems with them staying. However, the biggest one is that it's just an excuse to stay in the region. My fear is that they'll use it as a launch pad to attack Iran.

If I could truly believe that they were staying there to help the Iraqi people, I could stomach their staying there more easily. However, as long as we're there, the insurgency will continue to kill innocent Iraqi people (as well as our troops, but that's a different, no less important, issue).

My guess is that most people would say that the UN should take it over. However, I don't know that the UN would be willing to do this at this point, and, as much as the B* Administration hates the UN, I doubt that this is something that it would seriously consider.

[Writer]

8. I agree. We need to get NATO and the UN involved.

But the only way for that to have happened is a new administration in the White House.

[Marymarg]

7. Bush's problem

"We" did not do any of those things. This has been George Bush's War since day one. He was determined to start this war, dismissed the need for allies, ignored the United Nations, allowed Rumsfeld to ignore the military advice for enough troops, etc., etc. This is his baby. It is up to him to deal with what he has done.

George Bush is the one responsible for this whole ungodly mess. It is he who is accountable to them. It is he who must figure out how what to say to that person.

[MH1]

18. Bush, and something like 20 million Bush supporters.

Hey, I'm cutting slack for 2/3 of the folks who voted for him. Of course that's if you believe Diebold. I'm allowing that roughly 2/3 are just sheep, to be pitied for their ignorance, who will follow anyone if the propaganda game is played right.

Not to mention the Bush administration - Rove, Cheney, Rummy, Perle, ..... Don't let them off the hook!

Although I agree with your basic premise - 50+ million of us DID NOT do these things.

[Lost-in-FL]

10. We were not supposed to be there...

If we stay in Iraq they will want us out and if we leave they will complain too. BRING THEM HOME

[judy]

11. The point is not only the US troops,

but a lot of the problems in Iraq come from 65% unemployment, poverty and corruption due to war profiteering.
If Iraqis were allowed to do their own reconstruction, the country would regain its independence and pride.
The US needs to pull the Halliburtons and Bechtels out of Iraq, and the mercenary companies there to protect the profiteers.

Iraq is being treated as a colony, not as an independent, sovereign nation. We can't stabilize a nation that we keep from existing.

[Pepperbelly]

12. you have to look at it in context ...

We are 2+ years into this and we have not secured even Baghdad. We cannot go from the green zone to the airport using surface transportation. That should tell you volumes about our effectiveness in bringing the country under control.

I think that if we cannot gain control over even Baghdad, the popular sentiment is so against us tells us that our presence is a net loss to stability, safety, or recovery.

[IndianaGreen]

13. We are the reason why Iraq is in chaos!

End the Occupation now!

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Let the chips fall where they may

This nation has been at war for 8 centuries. It is not our business to have one American in harm's way. We could stay there for 100 years and there would still be a civil war when we leave.

Crass as it sounds, that is their business, not ours, and Bush was stupid enough to think they would welcome us with open arms.

These people will always be at war with someone - it is their nature. We had no business getting involved in the first place.

[I Have A Dream]

17. One could use the same statement to describe Americans:

"These people will always be at war with someone - it is their nature."

If we're not fighting a real war, we're fighting an imaginary war. I find that most Americans are belligerent by either nature or nurture. We're also arrogant and self-serving. I've come to the point where I can no longer say that I'm proud to be an American. I love the United States, but I don't respect either its government or a large percentage of its people.

[Yupster]

15. My guess

as to how this will end is not well.

The US will leave.

The government will try to govern.

The insurgency will not end. There will be massacres and assassinations, and eventually the government will step back and unleash the Sadr militia and other Shi-ite militias, and there will be massacres approaching genocide in the Sunni triangle as old scores are settled very harshly.

The Sunni population of Iraq will become refugees and will be killed or flee to Syria.

Then the UN will come in.

That's my guess.

Unlike South Vietnam, I think the Shi-ite dominated government can and will win the coming Civil War because it has unlimited and very committed manpower it can call on to sweep through the Sunni heartland in waves of destruction.

I think the Sunnis should hope we stay as long as we can, because after we leave things will get very bad for them.

[jonnyblitz]

16. yeah we should still be in Vietnam too, fixing it...nt

[ClassWarrior]

19. Chaos? Civil war? Many, many deaths? Gee, hate for THAT to happen!!

We pull out. UN peacekeeping forces go in. The UN mobilizes international reconstruction efforts.

We go back to peace and prosperity.

NGU.

[gulliver]

20. Unfortunately, more people have to die for Bush's mistake ...

... no matter what we do. Bush's vanity, greed, ignorance, and blind ideology have driven the country into scary territory, historically speaking. It's a fight to get out no matter which way we turn. We may not even get out.

[blondeatlast]

21. Iraq is the birthplace of civilization; they can rise to this challenge.

There will be civil unrest, of course, but our presence makes the situation far worse than it has to be.

I'd also ask an Iraqi citizen what they would prefer, even if I'm pretty sure of the answer already.

How is Viet Nam doing today? Pretty well.

[Lefty48197]

22. Civil war, and the winners install Saddam as their new President

Stay tuned for Bush vs. Saddam III "The rubber match".

[frictionlessO]

23. Many Many more deaths if we stay there as well...

I personally think that it is only a combination of arrogance and guilt that keeps people wanting to keep the trrops there thus prolonging the suffereing on all sides.

Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but I know that for the most part the people who have been right about almost everything regarding this fuck up of a war all along are mostly the people saying bring them home now. So I am siding with the peopel who have been mostly right.

Pan Arab/ UN force that the Iraqis for the most part dont feel is an occupying force. Oversight by neutral third party nations that teh iraqis are for the most part comfortable with. All rebuilding and oil efforts are handed over to Iraqis with oversight by UN and thirda party nations that are trusted.
Reparations to the Iraqis and to the security forces that have to go in and clean up our mess for the next 10-50 years.
Prosecution of the administration (both here and with some of our Allies) in a world court for war crimes.

That is the only way you are going to save the Iraqi people if that is what you truly care about and not our own ego saving face. We are well beyond that only brutal honesty and diginified justice is going to end it. Anything else is an ego based, guilt ridden deduction.

[Karenina]

27. Whenever I read that

"Pottery Barn" argument I want to :puke::puke::puke:. What has sustained support for this atrocity is the default template of Amurikkkan white supremacy.

The "brutal tyrant" was about to level the playing field and had to be immediately deposed before the 25% you 5% consume could be brought to an abrupt halt. Control of the oil and permanent military bases are the apples in the Strudel (bi-lingual pun intended).

"Oh what will the poor, primitive Iraqis DO without OUR guidance and phyical presence?" PURE. RACIST. DRIVEL. :puke: GET OUT AND PAY UP.
Your phyical presence IS the problem. Your economic presence IS the problem. Your willingness to tolerate the wanton destruction of the cradle of civilization IS the problem. Your willingness to turn a blind eye to the DAILY ATROCITIES being committed in your names IS the problem. Your RACIST Besserwisserei IS the problem. Your tolerance of the PNAC manifesto IS the problem.

[OneTwentyoNine]

24. Seeing how the sun will have burned out,how will you know?? n/t

[parkia00]

25. A New Dictator Will Rise

When the US pulls out, the goverment will try to stay on but it will collaspe and those with the connections will flee the country as exiles. There will be civil war as different groups try to push through their agenda. It will be messy until one person manages to claw his way up to the top and be the most powerful of the many factions. He will be another Saddam. Ruthless, blood thirsty and will force other squabbling factions to side with him or be destroyed. Slowly the country will calm down after other factions are killed off or joined with the new strongman and form the new nation. Another dictator but at least he will keep the sparring groups in check. He will be the plug in the crack of an unstable dam. Bush removed that plug when he toppled Saddam. With another plug in place, the area will stabalize. Back to square one.

[SoCalifer]

26. Writer

I understand your concerns, and I am pretty sure we all have those same concerns.

Here, let me post this short audio clip. It reflects the way I see this Iraq problem Bushler is responsible for.


((audio)) http://members.cox.net/anti_globalist/out_of_iraq.wma





.

[laugle]

28. No doubt, Bush will pull some troops just

before the 2006 election. Other than that, we will be staying for the forseeable future.