Simple Poll, Do you support Cindy Sheehan or not?

[frictionlessO]

Poll question: Simple Poll, Do you support Cindy Sheehan or not?

What with some of the "news" on Cindy and Camp Casey today I was wondering how many DU'ers now regret what Cindy is doing or no longer support her?

I was going to list exactly which "news" I am talking of, but I don't want to have you change your opinion based on this poll.




edit for spelling error.

[onehandle]

1. What is this? The "Are you a Freeper poll?"

For the record, I'm not.

[benddem]

4. why??? n/t

[frictionlessO]

7. I can understand the question...

But the statement leads one to think you voted no, and felt the need to pre-emptively defend yourself... without us knowing which way you voted anyways.

Sorry just kind of weird to read your post.

[OzarkDem]

26. Vouching for onehandle

I've known him on various Dem forums for 3 or 4 yrs, same as with many others who post here.

As for you, however, I'm not familiar with your posting anywhere other than this site. And you do occasionally start inflammatory threads based on whim and rumor.

[frictionlessO]

49. I am not trying to start anything I was being very genuine...

As I was with you further below.

What are you implying? That I am a freeper because I asked an honest question?

I am worried sick because I bought tickets to go the vigil and for me some of the posts I was reading on DU made it seem like Cindy was losing support.

The aove posters message was weird it was different than I was expecting and that was all I was trying to get info on.

Please stop trying to accuse me of being something that Im not.

I also have only ever started started a thread or two in anger, and I am very aware of which ones they were, are you trying to get me to turn this into a flame fest so they will shut it down? Why not just ask me to ask the mods to shut it down?

I can't believe I just got attacked by you again like I was trying to start something, when down below you are the one that started crap with Caleb.

This is just really uncalled for what have I done to you to bring forth such accusations. If you think I am a bad member of DU or worse you think I am hurting the cause then please just come out and tell me.

[frictionlessO]

50. Furthermore I answered your question near the bottom of this thread

politely and suggestively.

Yet you didn't even give me an answer back. AFter you posed your question so rudely. Why are you attacking me?

I don't think you have any idea how much you have just upset me.

If youre holding a grudge because of a couple of inflammatory posts I made sticking up for the conspiracy minded, well if you remember correctly my thread was one of two or three that they let stand. For good reason as well...

Are you just trying to push your own agenda here? I mean Ireally dont get where you are coming from with this needless attack...

Why?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I don't think it matters what Cindy thinks on other issues

we should support her for her stand about Iraq.

[w13rd0]

3. I support....

...making Bush uncomfortable, and confronting him with views other than his own. I support forcing him to listen to other than his crew of yes-men, and if at all possible, driving he, cheney and the rest of the criminal crew out of office.

[agingdem]

5. I support her but...

she should shut-up about the Israeli-Palestinian issue. Her loss gives her an absolute right to demand answers from the man who was responsible for her loss. However, she will trivialize her message if she "carries water" for something other than the Iraqi debacle.

[frictionlessO]

8. I sort of agree with you but..

saying "she needs to shut up" is too crass or something for my tastes. I don't think she should shut up.

[calimary]

61. She doesn't need to shut up about ANYTHING. The woman lost her

son in this war of LIES, okay? That, in my opinion, gives her a free pass, across the baord, to say whateverthefuck she feels like saying. She's already paid in full for the privilege, thank you very much. This mom is behind her ONE HUNDRED percent. ONE THOUSAND persent.

[frictionlessO]

64. Bbbbbbbut, but, but I didn't say that Cali!

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Everyone just keeps misunderstanding me. So I must be doing something wrong... I don't know what though... first Ozarkdem lays into me and now you...

I already asked Ozark on here and in a PM why she was gunning for me.. if you or her would just please tell me what I am doing wrong. I'll gladly modify my behaviour.

I am just so feeling unwanted...

[JDPriestly]

11. This is true, alhough

I suspect her comments were intended to deal with the Israeli settlements, not with the existence of Israel. If she means that she does not think Israel as a country should exist, she needs to study the history of Europe and the Jewish people especially before, during and after WWII. They were unsafe, unwanted and unwelcome . . . even after the war.

While many Americans know about the prison camps, they do not know that the Allied discovery of the camps did not result in the immediate release of the camp prisoners. Many of those in the NAZI camps had to stay on and on after the Allied victory. That is because they had nowhere else to go. Their homes had been confiscated. They were hated. They were not welcome in the US or, in large enough numbers to accommodate them all, anywhere else. For many of them, it was either Israel or staying in the prison camps. Those who went to Israel risked their lives to go there. Some of them were children, orphans in fact, with either no family or completely estranged from what was left of their families. They were alone in the world. Once they were in Israel, they built a country and a society. It was an amazing achievement for such a small number of people in a small space in a hostile area and a hostile world. The Palestinians, in fact all of us non-Israelis would do well to learn from their example.

No, I'm not Jewish. But, I have lived in European countries and seen antisemitism alive and well today (less of it in what was W. Germany, oddly enough). You don't see that much of that kind of hatred against Jewish people in America. But, after my experience in Europe I became an Israelophile without ever having seen the country. I understand how difficult the establishment of Israel has been for the Palestinians. Many of them sold their land. Please don't forget that. In addition, their leaders have received money for their assistance over the years. Their leaders, however, have been corrupt, and, as a result, the Palestinian people have experienced great difficulty. Instead of building democratic institutions and an independent economy where they have gone, they have lived in misery.

Contrast that with the amazing success story of the Israelis who had wise leaders, at least in the beginning, and worked together and dealt with the difficulty of their horrible situation and past. Unlike the Israelies, the Palestinians have not been able to accept their new reality with grace and strength. Don't tell me about the loss of land, etc. The Jewish people had lived in Europe for many generations. They had established a culture. Some of them had owned beautiful homes, a few had been very wealthy. They lost everything and, while they were paid some reparations, they still have not regained what they lost in Europe.

Migrations, movements of peoples are just a part of life. If you look at the map of Europe, you will see countries that were once inhabited by this group or that. Today, they are multicultural, multiracial societies. I have heard that the United Kingdom has such a large Muslim population that the majority of British may one day be Muslim. This change was not accomplished by conversion, but rather by a peaceful "invasion." Nothing wrong or right about it. That is just the nature of life -- constant change. That is reality.

I wish peace to both the Palestinians and the Israelis. I think the Palestinians deserve more help in getting themselves together, but I also support Israel. You are welcome to disagree with me. My message is simply that, regardless of Cindy Sheehan's views on Israel, it is possible to be on her side and also support Israel.

[Cocoa]

14. I suspect her comments were made up by Drudge

I will suspect that until I see it in a reputable source.

[wli]

31. it gets a lot worse than that

Let's start with the gays. They were offered a choice between "freedom" in Russia and a long, continued sentence in Auschwitz, but a at a price: castration. Those who went to Russia (I think 5000 or 15000) were given life sentences in GULAG. Those who stayed behind weren't released from prison until at least 1952 (I forget the dates, but it may well have been into the 1960's; 1952 merely "comes to mind").

What? They didn't free some of the concentration camp inmates until the 50's or 60's because they were gay?

What the Hell?

And what happened to the gypsies?

And why didn't anyone try to stop all this if Roosevelt et al knew it was going on during WWII?

There are a lot of unanswered questions about WWII... and many more since (October Surprise, Iran-Contra whitewash, REX 84, every incursion ever made into Latin America, JFK assassination, etc.).

[Rude Horner]

6. Ah, the attacks at our own side rear their ugly head again

Throw spitballs of doubt at the wall and see if they stick, huh?

Well not here. I support her 100%, and I don't give a rats ass if Cindy and I don't see eye to eye on every single issue. Maybe we do and maybe we don't. All I'm saying is that if you supported what she was doing yesterday, why the hell would that change today?

The issue is what she is doing. Don't try to cloud it with other so-called facts and innuendos.

[frictionlessO]

9. Whoa!! Rude, were you talking to me?

Trust me I am not spitballing shit and was trying to gauge the effects of said spitballing.

I agree with you 100% by the way.

[Rude Horner]

10. Nope. Sorry if I gave that impression.

It wasn't you who that was aimed at. It's these places that release "news" to try to get us to turn against Cindy.

Sorry. My humblest apologies.

[frictionlessO]

12. No problem,

Thats why I wanted to clarify.

Thank you.

[BrendaStarr]

46. That's funny, because it looks like a push poll. /nt

*

[frictionlessO]

48. Whatcha mean?

Did I do something wrong? or could have I have worded it up a bit more?

Teach me I am always willing to learn.

Sorry if the poll rubbed you the wrong way.

[orleans]

13. yes i support her. (what was the news? i took a nap) n/t

[ChiciB1]

15. WHAT AM I MISSING HERE???

I'M NOT VOTING because I have NO idea what I'm voting for!

Please explain! This lady has done more in 8 days than most of the Democrats in Congress have been able to do in 5 years!

I just DON'T get this!

[Catholic Sensation]

19. my initial reaction would have gotten me banned

The poll asks if you, Chici, support Cindy Sheehan. I know the title of this thread is ambiguous, so I hope I cleared it up for you.

[frictionlessO]

20. Chici if your views are still the same then please vote accordingly.

The goal here was to gauge the effects of todays propagandas efforts.

Basically calling Cindy bad names politically speaking, and some divisiveness over a neighbor who went a wee bit over the top today.

[ChiciB1]

57. I Guess I've Been Pretty Vocal About My Views, However....

wasn't aware that anyone was paying that much attention to actually KNOW exactly what they are.

I will say that I strongly believe we have entered into a form of Fascism here in America, even though it's been very EFFECTIVELY disguised as Patriotism! I AM a PATRIOT, and I LOVE MY COUNTRY, but CENSORSHIP is on the rise! So for me, the America I see today IS NOT the America I grew up in! I'm very FEARFUL these days. I have bumper stickers all over my car, not only against "the corrupt ones" but also against what I see happening here in America.

I have begun to wonder if I won't soon get a knock on my front door for my "in your face" radical views AGAINST "the corrupt ones"! I mean THEY can come and arrest me now, can't they?? I'm a threat to the Democracy THEY believe in!! But it's not a Democracy, and WORDS have shaped the minds of far too many IGNORANT people. And FEAR has made them STUPID! And they follow a STUPID administration which has NEVER won ANY election here in America!

So these are some of my views, AND I WILL be in D.C. in September and I MAY get arrested! So tell me, are my views STILL the same?????

I'm going to start a post now about just how FEARFUL I am.

[frictionlessO]

59. I think you misunderstood me...

I am sorry. I only meant to do something good with this poll here.

I am truly sorry.

I am fearful as well.

[ChiciB1]

68. I'm NOT Offended... I Just Didn't Know

what you were getting at. AND I was being facetious... blabbing my mouth off as usual! That is regarding my views! I was sort of wondering if MY views had gotten out of WHACK!

I'm pretty hard-nosed and I can take as much as I give!

You have NOTHING to be sorry for!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

16. I absolutely support her. Yes, the media has brought up

a lot of "past statements" that make her look like a "flip flopper" (boy, I hate that term). But that is because they have taken her out of context in some cases, and totally misquoted her in others. If anyone cares to listen to what she has actually said they will see that she has stayed consistent. But of course, that is not how it is being played out.

[Nikki Stone 1]

17. The "swift boating" of Sheehan has begun

You didn't think Junior was going to let her get away with camping in his favorite watering hole, didja?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

18. not for a new york minute...

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. Come on. You knew they were going to have to go after her sooner or later

nt

[tinfoilinfor2005]

24. Yes, of course I did. Did I sound like I thought I didn't?

Wow...I'm SO confused!!! :)

[Nikki Stone 1]

42. Ok, maybe I misunderstood. No harm, no foul. (except with stuffing)

nt

[Bluerthanblue]

65. taken out or in

context, the words of a person who is in the VERY first stages of grief, where the reality has not begun to truly 'sink in'- are not words that they should be taken to task for, or held accountable to.

Ever hear someone say "i'll never forgive you" or "i'll see you rot in hell for this" or many less angry, and more numbed down statements following an unnecessary and sudden death?????? i have- i've lived the experience- actually not remembering specific details until YEARS later, and then, out of the blue, feeling the overwhelming swell of emotion that had been pushed down, because i couldn't 'cope' with it, and continue to live.- Cut her some slack-

Anyone who has truly known grief, understands.

And as for her views on any other issue- she has every right to voice her perspective. Pointing out the FACT, that the 'nation' of Israel, NOT the 'Jewish Faith' or ALL "Israeli's" have been in violation of UN sanctions for DECADES, and we continued to support, fund, and 'back' them- while we used the 'sanctions' issue to falsely invade Iraq, IS relevant- and not 'anti-semetic' any more than criticizing the actions of America, makes someone 'anti-judeao/christian'.

If Bush's neighbor is upset, he ought to tell the man to meet with her- cause that WOULD be the correct 'ending' to his not liking the porta-pottys and crowds- after all, bush hasn't been his neighbor for years, and years- and the fact that he chose to become president isn't something to blame Cindy for- blame the bush himself.

[Caleb]

21. I support what she is doing

Just not her views on Israel.

[frictionlessO]

23. Interesting, please understand this is not being snarky at all but genuine

Can you tell me what exactly her views on Israel are?

Again not being snarky but could you also provide some links?

Thank you by the way you are the demographic I was hoping to encounter.

Peace.

[Caleb]

25. Sure. This is what she said

Per Wikipedia:

Along with criticizing the Bush Administration and the War in Iraq, Sheehan has been quite vocal in her attacks on Israel and so-called neoconservatives. In a letter, written on 14 March 2005, Sheehan claims that her son died, "for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel." Sheehan further comments that her son joined the armed forces to "protect America, not Israel."

Sheehan has also said that in order to stop terrorism, Israel must get "out of Palestine."

These comments have led to accusations of anti-Semitism.

[OzarkDem]

28. Well now we know

Wikipedia isn't always a reliable source either. The link you posted has nothing substantive to back up its claims. Sorry, you'll have to come up with something better than that.

[Caleb]

29. Did you goto Wikipedia or what?

Because they have several links to back their claims up. I left out the links in my post.

[OzarkDem]

30. I did

The link I saw was to the test of an email message she supposedly sent to someone stating her views. That's not good proof.

[Caleb]

36. Here are better sources

http://electroniciraq.net/news/2098.shtml
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=12163
http://news.baou.com/main.php?action=recent&msg_recent=&rid=20405

[frictionlessO]

38. Thank you Caleb,

Do you believe she is stating that as an attack on the government of Isreal or Israels people?

There are many people who go and are going through stages of how and why the US did this to Iraq to rationalize this in their own minds. Israel has a role that should at the very least be scrutinized. For what most take as obvious reasons, most notably their reigning government at the time. Which is in essence no different than what we are trying to do with our own gov and what they are trying to do in the UK and probably Australia very soon.

I'm sure you understand that.

I'm sure you can also understand that she believes in Israels right to exist. She was making comment regarding the occupations of both Iraq and Palestinian territories. Occupations are usually wrong for the same general reasons.

You might be much more of a hardliner and believe the Palestinians deserve and need to be occupied and settled... I don't know, but I do hope that my answer was worthy of some regard.

Thank you.

[Caleb]

40. I understand

And, I'm no hardliner. Just pro-Israeli. I 100% support an independent Palestine and am glad that Israel is leaving Gaza tonight.

It's just her comments about how her son signed up to protect America and not Israel that bug me. I don't buy that Zionists and Israel control our foreign policy. I believe the blame lies squarely on Bush and his administration.

And when she said "Israel out of Palestine," it wasn't 100% clear to me that she only meant Gaza & W. Bank. When some people say Israel out of Palestine, sometimes they are saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist.

And David Duke coming to her defense has also added to my feeling that she is an Israel-basher.

[Bluerthanblue]

66. i believe

that Israel has EVERY right to exist. But not at the exclusion of the Palestinians.
i deplore attacks by EITHER the Israeli military, and the Palistinan terrorists- We should not 'take sides' by heavily funding Israel while pretending the Palistinan people deserve any LESS 'right to exist'-

i hope that RADICAL voices on both sides will shut the f... up, and let the people who are living the tragedy- those on the west bank, whose lives are being turned upside down, and those who have waited so long to have their homes returned deal with thier gigantic issues, and not have it 'rubbed' in the departing families faces, or held against the returning refugees.

We CANNOT live 'pre-emptivly'- because if we do that, we are going to be guilty of killing many innocent people, while pretending, or claiming 'they' made me do it.- That goes for BOTH sides.

And that is my perspective. i'm NOT anti-semite, nor anti-palestinian, both peoples have every right to exist.

[howmad1]

44. What Cindy Said.

Speaking as a Jew, I could care less what Cindy said. This gal has done more for the cause of freedom than any democratic politician since this phony war began. As far as those accusations of anti-Semitism, I suspect many politicians, both democrat and republican are closet anti-Semites. I suspect this is all bull shit perpetrated by neo-cons to evade the real issue regarding getting the hell out of Iraq. These are the same idiots who profess their support for Israel, which is a crock of crap. Cindy is the best!

[OzarkDem]

27. Here's an idea

Can you provide us with a reputable source as to her remarks that you find controversial? Something other than Drudge or other con web sites? If not, why are we even having this discussion?

[frictionlessO]

33. I find none of her remarks controversial.

As I have stated in a few other places in this thread I am trying to gauge the effects of todays rightish wing propaganda/spin efforts.

You would also do well to go back and explain to Caleb and the rest of "us" why wikipedia isn't always the best source.

Maybe you can suggest we flag this wiki entry for review or whatever it is they do over there. I find it interesting that at least in this case its a "scource" that we might be able to influence... don't you?

[hayu_lol]

34. Cindy speaks for us all when she wants to confront Bush...

I support her efforts...appreciate them greatly.

The rest of this thread can be deep-sixed.

[bvar22]

32. Doesn't matter.

Cindy didn't ask for our permission or support.
She went to Crawford for her own reasons.
As an American, I support Freedom of Travel and association for EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL in the US! Is ANYONE here AGAINST freedom of travel in the US?

If you DON'T support Cindy...Great.
She is NOT concerned about YOUR issues, and will stay in Crawford even if YOU don't support her. Get over it!

[frictionlessO]

35. You are very right in some regards but maybe wrong in one...

I am doing this to run as our own gauge her at DU for the next couple of weeks.. despite all the glaringly obvious variables I think running a poll just like this every few days will give us an idea of not only if RW talking point are having an effect on the DU populace but also clue us in to where some the negative scources are coming from.

[bvar22]

37. My response wasn't directed at you.

The poll doesn't bother me.
I AM surprised that there are people at DU that are critical of what Cindy is doing.
What part of This is America don't they understand?
:shrug:


Minnesota DU

[frictionlessO]

39. Or how about "this is what democracy looks like"...

That is a great pic by the way! Was that posted anywhere else yet? Seems like there would have been a thread for so many DU'ers in one spot.

anyways:hug: yeah...

[bvar22]

41. It is in the Minnesota State Forum

We have a very active DU Group. That picture was from our picnic last Friday afternoon.
:patriot:

[Imagevision]

43. The world supports Cindy Sheehan!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. Of course

I would wonder if those who consider themselves Democrats or progressives who might not support Cindy Sheehan because of one statement or another--if they would hold every politician they support to the same standard.

I supported John Kerry last year during the general election--but I did not and do not support some of the things he said about the Israeli/Palestinian issue either.

[Tippy]

51. While I support many people......

I do not support some of the things they do and say if I did. I would be a republican As far as what Cindy is doing I think she would be better off sticking to her main topic, and not dilute her message...

[StudentOfDarrow]

47. Yes, completely.

n/t

[ecstatic]

52. 100% But I wish the other groups would leave her alone

Only grieving mothers and family members should be with her on this mission. I'm tired of the media trying to twist this into a big antiwar movement. This is about a mother who demands and deserves answers about why her son had to die in Iraq.

[frictionlessO]

55. I Understand where you're coming from, but...

She asked for supporters not just Gold Stars for Peace or MFSO or for VFPs.

I don't think anyone should change her message and that all who go there go explicitly to stand by her in her struggle.

I am wondering if you think I shouldn't go now? I ask that honestly and Im not baiting. I care about peoples differing opinions on this.

Thank you for posting.

[CWebster]

53. Of course, but who said no?

Did they show their faces?

[GracieM]

54. 100% support

just not 100% like. If that makes any sense. I think she is strongest when she sticks to one issue.

Now I'm sure Israel is not as high on her priorities as the MSM would have us believe. Unfortunately, the MSM seemed to increase their coverage of the situation only after her Israel quotes surfaced.

Just waiting for something to smear her with before they covered her I guess.

I wish she could stick to a narrow topic, not because I disagree with her other views, but because I think her message will get lost in the neocon allegations that "she's using her son's coffin as a soapbox."

[EST]

56. After reading through this thread, I am driven to deliver

my own impression, filtered, of course, through my biases and colored glasses.
I got it that she sees, as do I and, apparently, most of the others with whom I have spoken, the exact parallels between the upper echelons of crooks and criminal enforcers in Israel as we have here. It goes around the world, woven into the big money/politics/religion net of power but has glaring eruptions in the Israel/ US connections. The whole point of Iran's nuclear power grab has nothing to do with the possibility of weapons falling into terrorist hands, although this is a distinct possibility. The influence fulcrum Iran will present is the one single atomic warhead pointed at Israel--thus securing the total acquiescence of the US government and forcing it to elevate Iran to the status, at least temporarily, of co-equals.

I am not anti-semitic, but I can spot corruption and freeper tactics as well as most thinking folks at DU, and the same crap that is destroying any notion of society that is empowering to its participants. The average Joe-that average including, of course, some sense of empathy, is the same whether he speaks Yiddish, French or Texan. That whole crew from Bush to Sharon to the top dogs in Pakistan and Afghanistan are in the organized crime syndicate up to their necks and their shoddy brinkmanship is going to kill millions upon millions of of us more honest, less socially aggressive folk before we bring them to heel.

Cindy was pointing this out, I thought, rather succinctly, although in tighter shorthand than my own verbosity allows. She is one hundred percent correct in her assessment and is fulfilling her destiny perfectly. Now, if the rest of us can so accurately recognize our own responsibility in the matter and find and fill it in a fashion close to her powerfulness, there will be no power on earth that can stop us VIVA Cindy!

[LeftyElvis]

58. She gets my support

and she didn't beat around the "bush"; she knows what the two problems are; Israels brutal occupation of Palestine and bushco's lust for oil profits. I hope Gaza is the first step in getting all Jews out of Palestine. Until they leave there will be no peace. As for bushco and oil; we have to join our energy with Cindy to get this moron impeached.

[EST]

60. Hear, hear

[Bluerthanblue]

67. i think

you said that very well.- and i agree.

[Vinca]

62. Before this is over there'll be a rumor that Cindy had a

three way with Jeb and Tom Delay and she's protesting because they dumped her. :rofl: This lady has more balls than all the elected Democrats combined. I'm proud to support her.

[frictionlessO]

63. Oh! Man! Thanks for the very very much needed laugh!

I just asked for the thread to be locked because Im afraid it'll get out of hand. I wish there had been a few more posts like yours, I've never done a poll with so much feedback and I've never gotten so much crap for doing one either.

Somedays some DU'ers are just... something.:shrug:

Thanks again for the laugh though!

[Missy Vixen]

69. Locking

due to request. Thank you for your cooperation.

Julie