What makes one a conservative? a liberal?

[CTLawGuy]

In my limited time on this planet, I've managed to do a fair bit of following politics. I've always wondered, what is the guiding principle that binds all liberals? All conservatives?

And this is what I have come up with:

A conservative is someone who believes that every element in society has a particular ordered place in which it belongs. It is the goal of government, whether through regulation or empowerment, to preserve and defend this natural order in society.

Both quasi-libertarian reaganists and religious fundies are natural allies, when the world is looked at in this way.

Judeo-christianity, as interpreted by fundies, is a set of rules placing everything in a particular order. In an earlier time, the races were meant to be kept separate. Men are to work outside the home, while women are to stay at home and take care of children.

Men are supposed to have sex with women, and not with other men. People are supposed to go to church on sunday and not get drunk or have sex outside of marriage. White people are superior to black people.

This is the natural order which, according to the fundies, is ordained by God. In their view, the liberals are taking over society and threatening this natural order, thus the government must exist in order to restrict them and preserve these values.

Reaganites are also bound by this theory of a natural order. they believe capitalism is a natural system which rewards those who are hard-working and productive, and punishes those who are lazy. Everyone is ordered by this natural system. the rich are above the poor (hey, they earned it). the reaganites, unlike the fundies, hate governement, because they believe it interferes with this moral system. they believe government should not only leave the wealthy alone to realize their advantage (and the poor to suffer), but they should help the rich to preserve and expand their advantage. After all, the rich must have worked harder than the poor, otherwise they wouldn't be rich.

both reaganites and fundies have faith in the natural system that exists in the world. They feel safe and secure when all are in their place, and there is no or little change.

Many less educated people tend to be conservative, in my opinion, for this reason. it is easy to accept a place in the world. You only need to know what exists currently. you don't need to waste brainpower to think about what might be possible. Homosexuality and empowered women frighten conservatives because those things knock their nice ordered world out of whack - they upset the conservatives' comfort zone. that is the source of their hatred toward liberals.

A liberal, on the other hand, is directly in conflict with the conservative. A liberal sees the order in society as restricting and immoral. he or she wants to break down the order and ensure equality among the elements in society. A liberal is not against judeo-christianity, but a liberal interprets it as a call to break down the sinful nature of society and create a new one based on equal justice.

Where a conservative builds up the natural order, the liberal breaks it down. thus, the two are in direct conflict.

Both the radical feminist and the civil libertarian are liberals, even though they may be in conflict many times. The radical feminist sees the inequality between men and women as the oppression of women by the ruling class of men. Since women are viewed as powerless in the natural order, the radical feminist seeks to use government policy to restrict and harm the partriarchy (ie anti-pornography laws, campus speech codes).

the civil libertarian sees the same problem, but his or her solution is different. Government policy should empower the disadvantaged in society to help themselves. The military should allow a woman the OPPORTUNITY to serve equally in combat, they might say. Women should be allowed to CHOOSE to get an abortion. Speech codes and other resrictions only cover up the problem, equality can only come forth through giving the disadvantaged a boost, rather than by beating down the advantaged.

both the civil libertarian and the radical feminist have the exact same goal, greater equality. they both are saddened by the disadvantages that saddle women. they just have different ways of rectifying the problem.


That was long!

How do you define a liberal and a conservative?

[whistle]

1. Some jerk calling us one or the other to create division and gain

...political leverage

[candy]

3. Many people are a little bit of both---I know I am.

[mixedview]

8. most people are both -

only far left socialists and far right libertarians are not.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I have thought about this too, though I didn't get as extensively

into it: http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/libvsconserv.htm

[housewolf]

4. "Me & mine" vs "Us & ours"

It seems to me that the biggest difference between the left and the right boils down to which is a higher value - to the right it's "me and mine" and to the left it's "us and ours."

To the right, if someone doesn't fit into the circle of "me and mine" there is no sense of responsibility for or identity with "the other," anyone who is not included within the circle of "me and mine." When authorities take that basic concept and turn it into a survival issue, indoctrinat their followers with the idea that "the other" is dangerous and a threat, and teach to demonize "the other" as evil, it is easy to see how the right turns to demonization and hatred anyone they don't consider to be part of their "me and mine" group.

To the left, the circle is larger. Instead of "me and mine," the left embraces "Us and ours," an idea that extends to community, nation, and, for some, as large as the popoulation of the world. The left embraces the family of man, an idea that is so foreign as to be incomprehensible to the right.

It explains the whole issue of the right's policies of selfishness, greed, short-sightedness and rejection of ideas of "the common good" and responsibility for "the good of all." It is the basic social divide in the country right now.

[Daphne08]

5. I think it's a philosophy that one holds at any given point in

his or her life.

For instance, at this point in life, I agree with Democrats on most issues, but when I was younger, I was much more liberal and free-spirited.

Life is different for each of us and events affect us all a bit differently, but I would say that raising children probably affected me more than anything else. I became more conservative in my thinking when my children were growing up.

Now that they are grown, I'm becoming more liberal again because I do NOT like the place that these Republican leaders are taking our country and our society.

I find that my own children are not able to live as freely as I did back in the 60's and 70's. My youngest is a total free spirit and I worry about him very much. He has such a "live and let live" attitude and our society is becoming much too rigid and unforgiving.

[snowbear]

6. How 'bout.....

A.) ....... B.)

A.) = 4-Star General who told Bill Maher on his program that he was proud to be a Liberal Democrat! :hug:

B.) = Told Americans they were Hell-bound heathens if they let their children watch Telletubbies.

[mixedview]

7. Agree and disagree

You are right - conservatives do see a natural order. Cultural conservatives see a natural order as defined by God, conservative libertarians see a natural order as defined by science.

I tend to agree with the libertarians and the founding fathers - a nation cannot truly be free if it is not first based upon a free society and a free market, which first respects the rights of the individual (as opposed to first respecting the rights of the community).

Where I differ from them, is while they see nothing wrong with a vertical hierarchy, I believe in regulation, a progressive tax system and a social safety net to bring about a sloped hierarchy - to curb the bullies at the top protect the vulnerable at the bottom.

I differ from socialists in that I disagree with a flat hierarchy (no hierarchy). I also differ from those on those on the left who don't acknowledge natural order, believing everything is a "construct" which can be shaped in anyway a society chooses.

I suspect most Americans think how I do: competitive markets (economic, cultural and otherwise) drive the growth of the individual and the nation, and democratic socialism nurtures and spreads that growth.. saves liberty from itself.

Anyone who disagrees with a mixed economy is an extremist - whether left or right.

Reasonable people can disagree about the mixture.