here we go again: newly declassified documents; clinton did it...

[dajoki]

to take the heat off shrub and his falling number's the state dept., with pressure from conservative group judicial watch, declassified documents from '96 in order to blame clinton. we all know richard clarke told the new bush admin. that bin laden was their biggest problem, and they ignored him. --------------STORY------------------ State Department analysts warned the Clinton administration in July 1996 that Osama bin Laden's move to Afghanistan would give him an even more dangerous haven as he sought to expand radical Islam "well beyond the Middle East," but the government chose not to deter the move, newly declassified documents sh

In what would prove a prescient warning, the State Department intelligence analysts said in a top-secret assessment on Mr. bin Laden that summer that "his prolonged stay in Afghanistan - where hundreds of 'Arab mujahedeen' receive terrorist training and key extremist leaders often congregate - could prove more dangerous to U.S. interests in the long run than his three-year liaison with Khartoum," in Sudan.

The declassified documents, obtained by the conservative legal advocacy group Judicial Watch as part of a Freedom of Information Act request and provided to The New York Times, shed light on a murky and controversial chapter in Mr. bin Laden's history: his relocation from Sudan to Afghanistan as the Clinton administration was striving to understand the threat he posed and explore ways of confronting him.
NYT 8/17/05 http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/17/international/asia/17osama.html?th&emc=th

[WePurrsevere]

1. Admittedly I'm a bit fogged in today so I may be muddled but...

didn't Clinton actually WANT to do something about this and was stopped by the Republicans in the House/Senate?

[Champion Jack]

2. I'd like to know that as well

[dajoki]

3. they wouldn't let him do ANYTHING!! n/t

[bribri16]

20. He would have been "wagging the dog" remember? n/t

[Dinger]

29. Bingo

That puss Weldon wrote a book and he's been flapping his jaws lately. Yet, it doens't seem like it's getting that much steam, but yeah, they wouldn't let him do anything, Wag the Dog I do remember. They said Clinton wanted to start a war as a smokescreen for Monica. Bullshit I say!

[Jeanette in FL]

30. "No War for Monica"

they screamed when Clinton was waging offensives against Bin Ladin in Afghanistan. They said he was only trying to distract the public from his legal problems. Do they really think that we are that stupid and not paying attention?

[dajoki]

31. he came alot...

closer to getting him than bush did

[howmad1]

64. YES!

[Emit]

22. Yes, being discussed here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4379848&mesg_id=4379848

And rememeber this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1988869

Also, Talk of the Nation has a piece airing on this subject.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4803987

It'll be interesting to see what thei take on it is.

"LTC Shaffer who was on the Able Danger team decribed giving a two page memo to Phil Zelikow, Deputy Director of the 911 Commission in his trip with 3 staffers to Afganistan.

Audio will be posted at 6PM EST

Talk of the Nation, August 17, 2005· An Army intelligence officer, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, says his unit, known as "Able Danger," identified four future Sept. 11 hijackers as al Qaeda members in the United States -- well before the 2001 attacks. He says the 9/11 Commission did not thoroughly investigate this data.

Guests:
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, oversaw the Army's "Able Danger" intelligence unit
Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission; former Republican governor of New Jersey
Harry "Skip" Brandon, former deputy assistant director in charge of counterterrorism and national security at the FBI; retired in 1993 after 23 years with the FBI; founding partner of Smith Brandon International, a defense and security consulting firm in Washington, D.C.
Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch "

[Az_lefty]

32. Yes he did, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/index.html

[Don1]

45. Yes.

He tried to create the dept of homeland security but the republicans stopped him.

[Imagevision]

56. Our reply should be: Tinfoil hats-Tinfoil hats-Tin foil hats!

don't even want to comment on Hannity horseshit!

[Emit]

58. Yes! They are now entering the well established 9/11' tin-foil hat' arena

and perhaps will learn that it isn't that tin-foil hattish!

A good place to start, for these right wingers who are now finally donning their 'tin-foil hats' with regard to this Able-Danger-disguised-as-seeking-the-truth-about-9/11 crap, is at the sites where the various 9/11 truthseekers have already been asking these questions.

I think it really is sick for them to jump into it, with all of this false bravado and concern, only to try and blame Clinton et.al. for this Atta/Able Danger stuff.

It does no service in seeking the truth and it is a slap in the face to the victims and families of victims of 9/11/01 who have been trying to uncover the truth all along.

[rumpel]

61. they all said it was Wag The Dog at the time...as I recall

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. This is the begining of this war is Clinton's war

believe it, they are starting to switch the war and war rationale to Clinton so bush will never be blamed

[papau]

5. How hard is it for the NYT to emphasise "no reliable evidence"for Clinton

dump?

"But Clinton administration diplomats have adamantly denied that they received such an offer, and the Sept. 11 commission concluded in one of its staff reports that it had "not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim."

The newly declassified documents do not directly address the question of whether Sudan ever offered to turn over Mr. bin Laden. But the documents go well beyond previous news and historical accounts in detailing the Clinton administration's active monitoring of Mr. bin Laden's movements and the realization that his move to Afghanistan could make him an even greater national security threat."

And could the memo's point contradict the NYT spin any more?

"While a strategy of keeping Mr. bin Laden on the run could "inconvenience" him, the assessment said, "even a bin Laden on the move can retain the capability to support individuals and groups who have the motive and wherewithal to attack U.S. interests almost world-wide."

So we quote the conservative liar - and have no quotes from Clinton folks because there was not time to get them -

"Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, said the declassified material released to his group "says to me that the Clinton administration knew the broad outlines in 1996 of bin Laden's capabilities and his intent, and unfortunately, almost nothing was done about it.""

And of course the CIA advice is buried:

"The analytical side of the State Department had it exactly right - that's genius analysis," he said in an interview when told of the declassified documents. But Mr. Scheuer, who wrote a book in 2004 titled "Imperial Hubris," under the pseudonym "Anonymous," that was highly critical of American counterterrorism strategies, said many officials in the C.I.A.'s operational side thought they would have a better chance to kill Mr. bin Laden in Afghanistan than they did in Sudan because the Sudan government protected him. "

[dajoki]

7. exactly, like the old days, blame clinton

:wtf:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dajoki]

34. bush...

well, i mean his puppeteers have the country and the world so screwed up it will take a dem president and congress to fix it. and it will be a challange. btw, you might as well put that shoe in your mouth, but stick it up your ass first. because that's all we here from the repugs, BULLSHIT!!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

26. Obviously Richard Clarke's message did not get through.

He was ruthless in his pursuit of bin Laden. Those snatch-and-grab operations he performed on al-Qaeda higher-ups were enormously successful, and he had even drawn up a plan on how to contain bin Laden's threat--a plan that was tossed in the trash by the Bush administration.

[MrBenchley]

35. Was there a coup?

""Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch"
What happened to Larry "I sued my own ma" Klayman?

[OzarkDem]

6. Rove is getting desperate

If this is all they have left in their bag of tricks to smear Dems and divert attention. Its pretty lame, though the media payola keeps the Wurlitzer going with prime coverage.

[dajoki]

8. probably in the 52 pages...

of talking points the pugs got sent home withhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1984993

[aden_nak]

9. If they really want to declassify things, I've got a whole list of shit.

/wink

[dajoki]

10. how 'bout it, but where do we start?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2015048&mesg_id=2015048

[aden_nak]

11. Clearly, the Roberts file was destroyed by Bill Clinton's penis.

[dajoki]

14. hey, don't put it past them. LOL

:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Well, so what? They warned the Clinton administration in 1996.

Apparently the Clinton administration paid attention because they prevented any terrorist attack within the US. So who was president on September 11, 2001?

Nice try republicans.

[underpants]

21. Were these reports still around when W took office?

There is no connection to that question at all in the MSM

[PurityOfEssence]

13. Even if he did ignore it, how's that let Junior off the hook?

Besides the fact that this is absolute crap, why would Junior be less to blame for doing the same thing? It makes even less sense when you remember how Junior's mob came in saying that Clinton's folks had done everything wrong; shouldn't something like this have been a top priority in the methodology house-cleaning?

Okay, enough fantasy.

Sandy Berger told Condi Rice that Al Queda and Bin Laden would be her greatest concern. Clinton himself told Junior the same thing, although Dim Son can't seem to remember it. Clinton was roundly accused of trying to distract people from the impeachment witch hunt by his various initiatives against Bin Laden.

What kind of idiotic and flimsy excuse is this? Even if Clinton HAD neglected it, the information was still there and Junior should have done SOMETHING. As it was, Cheney's terrorism task force did nothing before 9-11; he was much more interested in the energy fleecing of the country and world.

Sheesh.

[dajoki]

15. shrub was told before...

he ever took office and HE ignored it. also happened on his watch. the two things i hate the most are being lied to and being talked down to like your stupid. and that's all this admin. does.

[WePurrsevere]

16. I guess the admin assumes that all Americans have the same IQ as

Bush* :eyes:
(and hope they have the same memory span.)

[dajoki]

17. can you remember...

it ever being so bad? i'm 51 and i can't. they have nixon and even raygun beat by miles!!

[WePurrsevere]

24. A bit younger but No I can't....

and I'm hoping and praying to any Divine that will listen that after BushCo leaves/implodes I never do again nor do my children or children's children (ad infinitum).

I never was a fan of Reagan or Nixon but compared to how I feel about BushCo they make me feel down right warm and fuzzy.

[karynnj]

25. Your right, Bush was President for 8 months

Clinton was blamed for Somalia which happened much earlier in Clinton's administrtion

[TOhioLiberal]

69. Not only that...

...Some RW'ers blame him for the WTC attack in '93. A month after he took office!

[dajoki]

70. some?

i think you would be hard pressed to find one who doesn't.

[TOhioLiberal]

71. Don't want to over generalize...

...paint with a broad brush, Dontcha know? :blush:

[dajoki]

73. yeah...

you're right, can't judge everybody the same way.:hi:

[BluGrl]

36. It doesn't let Jr off the hook but...

If Clinton hadn't ignored it and had taken action then, we wouldn't have been left with Jr in the position to deal with it and may not be at war today. Face it...this is a mess all around!

[dajoki]

39. clinton tried...

but was opposed by repub congress http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/index.html

[Emit]

57. I'm not sure it is fair to say Clinton "ignored it" n/t

[gasperc]

18. Clinton admistration stopped the millenium bombing

while Bush ignored a memo that said BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK IN THE US, and sat motion less for nearly 10 minutes when told that America is under attack.
he didn't even get up to say what do you mean? by nuclear weapons? what? what the hell are you talking about?

[dajoki]

19. they have selective memory...

i'm sure they would like to forget "my pet goat" but we won't let them. oh, it's also on tape.

[BluGrl]

46. That is true....

But this other claim (Shaffer dude) states that the military tried, on several occasions, to give the names and photos of 4 of the 11 9/11 hijackers to the appropriate authorities and were blocked.

I agree that this doesn't take the heat off of Bush, but we can't point fingers at his administration and just ignore this. We would rightly be called hypocrites. I mean...it's just as bad and I hope to God it doesn't get worse than this!

[gasperc]

48. and Clarke wanted a principles meeting in Jan 2001

never got it

and Powell gave the Taliban $30million to stop opium production in May 2001

and Cheney was given the task of putting together a counter terrorism response in May 2001 but the team never met

and Bush got a memo from THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR that was titled Bin Laden determined to attack the US

and if the premise is that the Clinton administration was blocking the information, why didn't it flow freely the day after Bush was inaugurated?

why? why is this a naoble cause?

[BluGrl]

53. I don't think you understand....

If Bush is to be criticized for not allowing the information to flow freely and for not listening or meeting with anyone about Al Qaeda intel....what the hell do you think they'll say about Clinton? THAT is the point I'm making.

Pardon my reluctance if the game plan is to just say...."Well they did it, too!"

[gasperc]

62. It is August 2005

to blame Clinton for the state of the world today is stupid.
Let's see, what are the chances the a Republican congress would have supported the invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam from power because he was not complying with UN resolutions and intelligence data showed that he may have WMD.

about 0.7%, and the GOP would have relentlessly critized Clinton for not being able to produce substantial evidence of WMD and war would be lunacy. You only have to read quotes from the GOP on the Kosovo operation to know this.

Which brings us to today. It was Osama bin laden that attacked us on 9/11. Bush admitted as much during the debates. Remember, it wasn't Saddam that attacked us, it was OBL, and Bush's response was "I know that, I know that". Well just checking.

Bush received alot of intelligence briefings between 1/01 and 9/01 and he probably thought OBL was an insignificant gnat that, at best, might blow up a parking garage in an attempt to bring down a building. His bullseye was always set on Iraq.

And here is the main thrust of my critism, the post war plan is a diaster. There was no plan. The Bush administration had pie the illusions of occupation. and you, and America are paying the price of this incompetance

[dajoki]

66. read what hatch said in '96

repub congress basically wouldn't allow clinton to fight terrorism
http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/index.html


The president emphasized coming to terms on specific areas of disagreement would help move the legislation along. The president stressed it's important to get the legislation out before the weekend's recess, especially following the bombing of Centennial Olympic Park and the crash of TWA Flight 800.

"The most important thing right now is that they get the best, strongest bill they can out -- that they give us as much help as they can," he said.

Hatch blasts 'phony' issues
Republican leaders earlier met with White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta for about an hour in response to the president's call for "the very best ideas" for fighting terrorism.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, "These are very controversial provisions that the White House wants. Some they're not going to get."

[dajoki]

49. that was going on during bush admin. also

read the entire article from NYT http://nytimes.com/2005/08/17/politics/17intel.html?hp&ex=1124251200&en=55bd2891c82760c6&ei=5094&partner=homepage




Colonel Shaffer said in an interview that the small, highly classified intelligence program known as Able Danger had identified the terrorist ringleader, Mohammed Atta, as well as three other future hijackers by name by mid-2000, and tried to arrange a meeting that summer with agents of the Washington field office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to share its information.
....
Colonel Shaffer said that his role in Able Danger was as liaison with the Defense Intelligence Agency in Washington, and that he was not an intelligence analyst. The interview with Colonel Shaffer on Monday night was arranged for The New York Times and Fox News by Representative Curt Weldon, the Pennsylvania Republican who is vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and a champion of data-mining programs like Able Danger.
....
Colonel Shaffer said that he had provided information about Able Danger and its identification of Mr. Atta in a private meeting in October 2003 with members of the Sept. 11 commission staff when they visited Afghanistan, where he was then serving. Commission members have disputed that, saying that they do not recall hearing Mr. Atta's name during the briefing and that the name did not appear in documents about Able Danger that were later turned over by the Pentagon.

[Emit]

52. I think it is very important

to examine the role that the large oil companies have played, historically and currently, in our government. Decisions made by our government seem often to be made based not necessarily on the security or well being of the American people, but, instead, based upon oil interests in the Middle East (and elsewhere).

I think it's pretty apparent that there exists an effort that represents the moneyed interests (i.e., oil, war profiteer cos., etc.) that fund and control BOTH parties--an effort seemingly protected by members in BOTH parties.

We would be wise to examine this if we are truly interested in seeking the truth in the matter with regard to this current (mis)administration. If it also happens to include indiscretions or mistakes from previous administrations, so be it. I feel confident that any complicities that might be found regarding Clinton et. al. will pale in comparison to the blatant complicities, indiscretions, incompetencies and direct involvement of the Bushes and their cronies.

This "Able Danger" is being touted as "new" information by the right wing propaganda machine now. Those who have been involved in the 9/11 truth movement know that it represents merely one more example of how the commission was a whitewash, with its main goal to support the "official story." - "Able danger" is just another question in a very long list that many have been have been asking for some time, now. Sibel Edmonds comes to mind.

[cloud9]

51. Don’t forget

the sorry excuse that they didn’t want to scare the kids.

[dajoki]

68. they wanted iraq from the start...

and screwed that up. newly released secret memo WP 8/18/05
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/17/AR2005081701974.html?referrer=email

One month before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, three State Department bureau chiefs warned of "serious planning gaps for post-conflict public security and humanitarian assistance" in a secret memorandum prepared for a superior.

<<snip>>

The question of whether the United States planned adequately for the post-invasion occupation echoes today, as the insurgency continues to challenge U.S. policy in Iraq. Many senior State Department officials are still bitter about what they see as the Pentagon's failure to take seriously their planning efforts, particularly in the "Future of Iraq" project

[wishlist]

23. CNN just did very balanced report with all things Clinton did vs bin Laden

I was surprised how good the report was just now. They mentioned how Judicial Watch is a conservative group bringing this out. The report set the record straight by detailing with video Clinton's military actions against Bin Laden camps and how a special CIA group focusing totally on Bin Laden was set up under Clinton. They interviewed a head CIA guy under Clinton who explained all that they did against Al Qaeda and emphasized that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda was only one of many terrorist groups they were actively working against at the time, but that they had targeted him for special attention and action.

[dajoki]

28. i saw the report...

it was well done. but that guy from judicial watch was a mean SOB.

[Wizard777]

37. Bring it on! Extend the timeline back into the Clinton Adminstration.

Bill Clinton may not be the most loyal husband in the world. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a loyal American. The timeline should reflect Bin Ladens actions, Clintons actions against him, and the Republicans viscous attacks on the White House (due to their unnatural obsession with the President's penis.) I think this is where people will begin to see the cause of 9/11 began in the Republican party and worked it's way out to Al Qaida. YES! By all means lets go back to the Republican glory days when it was every Americans duty to viscously and relentlessly attack the White House over the Presidential abuses of his own semen.

[Emit]

60. I missed that. Can you tell me approx when it aired?

I know one of Judicial Watch's funders is the Scaife foundation--who seems to have its tentacles in all the right wing think tanks and propaganda machines.

I think it's interesting and ironic, the Judicial Watch info you noted from CNN, that is, in light of this article I came across earlier:

BUSH-CHENEY ADMINISTRATION’S PLAN TO RESTRICT CONGRESSIONAL PROBES OF SEPTEMBER 11TH CONTINUES EMERGING PATTERN OF SECRECY

Judicial Watch Calls For Disclosure and Accountability By U.S. Government Agencies To The American People

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest law firm that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, expressed concern and disappointment over press reports in the Washington Post that the Bush-Cheney Administration is trying to restrict Congressional probes of the September 11th attacks to closed session reviews by House and Senate committees of U.S. government anti-terrorism failures.

<<snip>>
“While American citizens should not have access to classified information, there should be a public airing of the reasons behind the negligence of both the Clinton-Gore and Bush-Cheney Administrations in not being vigilant before September 11, 2001. In this way, the public can participate in the debate on how to fix the security failures,” stated Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel Larry Klayman

“The Bush-Cheney Administration should also make the best of a dismal situation and ‘clean house’ at all of the nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Congressional hearings should be about disclosure and accountability – not a small club of intelligence bureaucrats making excuses to each other. If ever there was a time for an honest re-assessment of the nation’s intelligence capabilities and operations, this is it.” Klayman added.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/1359.shtml

edited to add "and ironic"

[renie408]

27. I hate these people

I mean, I really hate them. They are scum. They take information and twist it to suit themselves and ignore the fact that Clinton was ONE man and he was working against a Republican congress.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dajoki]

41. what truth?

the real truth or the truth according to bush and his cronies, they are incapable of telling the truth about ANYTHING!!

[Mad_Dem_X]

42. Welcome to DU

Enjoy your stay. :patriot:

[madrchsod]

43. old,old news

this story has been out for years. we couldn`t legally arrest him or detain him. clinton knew what was happening and did everything in his power to contain bin boy. just old news in a new bottle

[dajoki]

44. old news brought out now...

to try to take some heat off shrub.

[bottomofthehill]

47. That damn Clinton Penis

It has caused Wars, the fall of western civilization, Homosexuality, Hunger, the decline of morality, that little bugger has caused more trouble than GWB

[dajoki]

50. nothing but a little trouble maker LOL

:rofl: :rofl:

[tom_paine]

54. The old "It's all Comrade Snowball's fault" stratagem

How Big Dog can cozy up to the Amerikan Caesars is simply beyond me.

More "for the good opf the country" cowardice that lets the Bush Crime Family go time after time?

And what is Comrade Snowball/Clinton's reward for doing this? Why, to be blamed for EVERYTHING!

[clover]

55. did bush and his administration meet with clinton and his folks

during the transition of 2000? i remember that he refused. if i recall correctly, then
isn't bush's refusal to meet with outgoing clinton officials
the REAL story behind this whole "blame clinton for 9-11' thing being floated by the MSM? i recall the clinton administration offering to pass on the torch, providing their assessments, and the bush camp refused! what if bush had met in conference for, say, 3 hours, with the outgoing president? would 9-11 had been prevented? bush's arrogance and paranoia are continuing to put us all in danger.

[hannah]

59. and

Not only that but wasn't the bush family business partners with the bin ladens? Hello

[dajoki]

63. secretly flew...

them and other saudi friends out of the country after 9/11 when all planes were supposed to be grounded.

[splat@14]

65. Off the subject of your post, not sure about how "right" Judicial Watch is.

Didn't they go after the Cheney energy task force documents and members under the FOIA? Believe they fought that battle for years and got some of the papers (the famous map of Iraq with all the oil fields colored in), some redacted. Eventually ruled against earlier this year.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_3140.shtml
Sorry, didn't mean to take anything away from your post just thought that the JW was more balanced than advertised.

Give `em hell!

[dajoki]

67. appear right wing to me

http://www.answers.com/topic/judicial-watch

Judicial Watch
Judicial Watch is a United States-based organization that claims to be an unbiased watch dog. However, it has often been accused of having a right-wing/conservative agenda. The group claims it monitors the Judicial branch of the United States government for corruption, and what it views as un-constitutional behavior. However, the group has been accused various times of using courts and judges as a weapon with which to attack left-wing politicians and government officials. It has also been accused of attacking the Judiciary whenever the courts attempt to enforce a Judiciary point of view which could be construed as supporting left-wing politics. Although at one point Judicial Watch was a watch dog group that was held in high public regard, it is now generally viewed by the public as a Conservative front organization attempting to pursue an openly right-wing agenda and supporting the United States Republican party, going so far as to speak out on issues that go beyond its traditional Judiciary boundaries.

The Judicial Watch web page contains detailed information on current litigation matters. The vast majority of this litigation relates to legal challenges against Bill Clinton-era government officials and Democratic Party challengers to the George W. Bush Administration

[splat@14]

74. Good site, will save it. Thanks!

[NuttyFluffers]

72. I wonder if other men wish their penis was so powerful?

The magic of the Clenis strikes again, doesn't it? :+