The baby Jesus may have been born of immaculate conception....

[paineinthearse]

By email.

"The baby Jesus may have been born of immaculate conception. The information leaked to Robert Novak and Matthew Cooper and others that Valerie Plame was employed by the CIA had a more earthly origin."

Murray Waas, 8/18/05

[displacedtexan]

1. Murray needs to go back to Sunday School.

Immaculate conception refers to God's declaration that Mary was born without sin.

Virgin birth refers to the birth of Jesus.

[KC21304]

2. You beat me to it. But 95 % of people get it wrong.

[happyslug]

3. For the purpose of that comment the Difference is unimportant.

SOMEONE TOLD NOVAK AND Novak is NO shepherd guarding his flock when an Angel appeared to him and spoke. Nor is he a Wise-man who saw the "Star" in the East and acted. No SOMEONE LIVING ON THIS EARTH TOLD NOVAK and that person should be in Jail.

[paineinthearse]

7. That is the point.

Waas may not be completely correct in his theology, thank you for seeing his point.

[Bassic]

4. I was always taught the opposite

That the immaculate conception refered to the conception of Jesus because it did not require a sin (i.e. having sex) and Jesus was born free of the original sin (is taht what it's called in English?)

I was taught that both in church (Catholic) and in religion classes (also Catholic).

Edit: Typos

[displacedtexan]

5. Catholic.com is a great resource.

I have an undergrad minor in Religion from Texas Christian University. I've always been fascinated by religious history.

From Catholic.com...
The Immaculate Conception


It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived "by the power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

[Felix Mala]

6. Isn't the whole idea of Mary's innocence messed up if she had

children before or after Jesus the usual way? Doesn't that mess up all of this mumbo jumbo?

[happyslug]

8. Yes, but Catholic Doctrine rejects her having any other Children

As to Jesus having "Brothers" the term "Brothers" includes 1/2 siblings (i.e. male sons to one father but different mothers). Legend holds that Joseph had been married before and thus James, Jesus's Brother was his older brother to another woman (Notice I say legend, this is NOT even mentioned in the Bible).

But this is getting off the subject which is NOVAK was informed by a HUMAN source, he is NOT saying he heard voices in the night, an angel appeared before him or he was checking Plame's husband's Astrology chart and found out Plame worked for the CIA.

[TNMOM]

11. yeah, whatever... so DID she, or did she NOT conceive out of wedlock?

Bottom line: if Catholics think she's sinless, then she had to have conceived without the intervention of man. Otherwise, she'd be a sinner having had premarital intercourse.

I was raised Baptist, and they always drilled into us that Mary was not perfect (as the Catholics say), but she was human (a sinner) and that she did indeed get pregnant via holy spirit.

[msongs]

9. god committed adultery with mary. she had a husband. nt

[MaineDem]

10. I thought they married while she was with child

They were just betrothed when the angel came to spring the news on her.

(Somewhere a nun is getting ready to rap my knuckles. I can just tell.)

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Jesus H. Christ.

Somebody posts a smartass throwaway remark from Murray Waas & the whole thread turns into a humorless theological debate.

There's so much excess erudition around here that we oughtta start selling it to diploma mill PhD candidates in search of dissertations.

I'm taking bets on how many responses I get on whether Jesus' middle initial was H.